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Playoffs/Super Bowls overrated when evaluating QBs?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Havners Heroes, Jan 26, 2011.

  1. Havners Heroes

    Havners Heroes Cheesehead

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    I wrote my newest blog article about a topic that's sure to come up next week. You're going to have a lot of people wondering whether a third ring would make Roethlisberger a Hall of Famer, or whether Rodgers needs to win to be considered an elite quarterback.

    Seven Days of Sunday: Postseason, Super Bowl success overrated when evaluating QBs

    That's my post, I thought I'd get some ideas from you guys about what you think on that topic.
     
  2. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Not really.

    Playoffs is where it matters the most in every aspect. Specially quarterbacking.

    Now, it's more than Wins and Losses. It's HOW he performs. Per instance, Payton Manning boasts an impressive 94.0 regular season QB rating.

    But why doesn't he have more rings? Well, it's not the receivers and the line and everybody else's fault, contrary to what Mr. Manning wants you to believe.

    During the playoffs, where things get thougher, where defenses are better, Manning has an 88.4 QB rating. While it's nothing bad, it certainly isn't worthy of the best QB of all time.

    Now, take Bart Starr as an example.

    Starr has a reg. season career rating of 80.5. By the time, it was much harder to get that than it is today, as exampled by Unitas' 78.2 career rating.

    But when it mattered the most, during playoffs, Starr had an incredible 104.8 QB rating in 10 games, which, even by today's standards, is incredible.

    That's why the Green Bay Packers were such dominant force in the 60's, and that's why Mr. Starr is the greatest QB to ever play the game.

    (all numbers taken from Pro-Football-Reference.com - Pro Football Statistics and History)
     
  3. Havners Heroes

    Havners Heroes Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I mean I'm not saying playoff success has no bearing on where a player should be positioned in terms of quarterback rankings. You made a couple very good cases there.

    But the biggest problem I have with making a Super Bowl ring into the biggest factor of quarterback assessment is the fact that it's not an individual award. If Rodgers and Rivers keep up this pace for their whole careers but don't win a ring, does that make them any less of quarterbacks? Not in my opinion, same with Dan Marino. Personally I'd take Marino over guys with multiple rings like Roethlisberger, Aikman, Simms, Elway, and Staubach any day, as well as many more guys with one ring.
     
  4. Cheesehead Brittany

    Cheesehead Brittany Cheesehead

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    terry bradshaw isnt the greatest but he has 3 super bowl rings
     
  5. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    I'd take Bernie Kosar over Roethlisberger, Aikman or Simms, Marino is a no-brainer.
     
  6. 98Redbird

    98Redbird Cheesehead

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    No, it's not overrated. Playoffs/Super Bowls is where it's at. That's the ultimate goal for these guys. Winning Championships. That's just how you're judged.

    Some guys turn it on in the playoffs and the bigger the stage the brighter they shine. Let's hope our young QB is that way when the lights are at their brightest a week from Sunday...
     
  7. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    Easiest way I can counter this argument is last year's playoff game. Only so much credit can go to Aaron for losing that one. Its pretty hard to blame the QB that helped score 45 points, but his defense lets the opposing offense score just as much. And if you think that is an anomaly, think of Aaron's first season as a starter. Defense couldn't help us put those games away.

    SB/Playoffs are a good measure but not the best.
     
  8. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    I'd take a "winner" any day over the guy with the great stats. No comparison of Starr to Favre, for instance; or Montana to Marino. But that's just my opinion.
     
  9. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    An ugly win is still a win.
     
  10. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    Nice article, enjoyed reading it.




    In the playoffs you never know what's going to happen, and Peyton Manning is a good example of that. The media pampers him and is always riding his *** about being the "greatest" quarterback to ever play the game, but in the playoffs, he will usually blow it. Last year he picked the best possible time to blow a Super Bowl with a pick six, and that did not stop the media from still pampering him and coming up with excuses for him.
     
  11. Rodgers2Finley4TDs

    Rodgers2Finley4TDs Cheesehead

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    It's overrated imo. Even before this playoff run we knew how good Rodgers was and he hadn't won a playoff game yet.
     
  12. Gymrat

    Gymrat Cheesehead

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    I think Super Bowl wins are overrated simply because most quarterbacks don't even get a chance to play in the Super Bowl. And even for the ones that do if your looking at it like, "well he lost 2 Super Bowls", I don't feel that you can judge a QB based on wins/losses considering that is a team stat. I mean if the Bears won in 2006 would people say that Grossman is better than Cutler? Now in the case of guys like Aikman, Montana, Brady, Bradshaw, and Big Ben, that have won multiple rings, I still think that they should get credit, actually a lot of credit, but that isn't a stat that should be used against a QB when comparing stats. Almost like player of the week awards, but on a much smaller scale, you wouldn't say well my QB is better than yours because mine won player of the week and yours didn't.

    Now as far as Playoffs go, I think it is an ok way to evaluate a QB, just because in most cases (excluding Bears vs Seahawks) it is a way to see how the QB does against a playoff defense. I think It is just a way to see if he is "the real deal" If his playoff numbers are pretty consistent with his regular season averages, it is obvious that you have a guy that isn't phased by the pressure. It seems though nobody ever wants to give QBs credit for winning games, only want to criticize for losing. Coming into this post season, everyone was talking about how Rodgers has lost a playoff game, yet nobody mentioned how he passed for 4 touchdowns and rushed for 1. All they were saying is that he chokes in the playoffs, while nobody mentioned that "Matty Ice" was also 0-1 in the playoffs.
    The other thing that I feel is overrated is "clutch". Rodgers has taken us to the end zone to get us the lead in the 4th quarter plenty of times, but defense lets him down sometimes. While we do not have a good record in games decided by 3 points or less, that can't all be put on Rodgers shoulders. In those types of games, it basically comes down to who has the ball last. The team we have, and the QB that we have doesn't usually put our selves in close game situations. We haven't trailed by 7 all season, and usually we have a comfortable lead, forcing the opposing team to play catch up, which helps our defense excel when the QB tries to force one.
     
  13. ram29jackson

    ram29jackson Cheesehead

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    Roethlisberger will be in the hall regardless of this games outcome.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Yes it helps Roethlisberger case if he wins another. I think that would put him as a lock to get in. Does Rodgers need one to get in? No but it makes it a whole heck of alot easier. you dont want to be Warren Moon with good numbers and no ring.

    Lets talk marino. He sucked in the post season. Marino was directly responsible for not giving Miami another SB win. Look at his playoff numbers, his completion % was 56% and he threw 34 TDs to 24 INTs. I count 1 game in the playoffs he played well and the team lost the game (I havent seen the game since so my memory is hazy at best of the game and I have no idea how it played out, Im only going off of numbers) It was the 94 playoffs against the Chargers. Even in some of the wins he played like crap.

    Marino is brett favre without the SB and drama.
     
  15. pghkev

    pghkev Cheesehead

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    Brittany, do you not get enough attention? Where do you see men taking pics of themselves and posting it on a forum?
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    PG check your warning...

    We will not tolerate attacking MEMBERS
     
  17. pghkev

    pghkev Cheesehead

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    That was an attack? I meant it as a serious question. My bad.
     

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