Pick No. 173 Tederrel Slaton

[Krabs]

Slaton almost has to hit for this d-line to be any good at all. I'm hopeful after what I've seen and heard on the local talk radio stations. I like the local beat writers take on things because they are at training camp and the practices everyday. They love the guy. After Clark and Slaton there is not much talent there. Keke and Lowry are very streaky players. I don't trust either of them. I can't figure out how Lancaster stays on the roster. He continually gets whooped on almost every play. This is the most concerning spot for me on the entire roster.

 

[tynimiller]

Slaton almost has to hit for this d-line to be any good at all. I'm hopeful after what I've seen and heard on the local talk radio stations. I like the local beat writers take on things because they are at training camp and the practices everyday. They love the guy. After Clark and Slaton there is not much talent there. Keke and Lowry are very streaky players. I don't trust either of them. I can't figure out how Lancaster stays on the roster. He continually gets whooped on almost every play. This is the most concerning spot for me on the entire roster.

To overlook Keke and what he has done growth wise, grading out wise over his time in the league is missing the boat. Keke's role is different than Slaton, but has been extremely dependable and has continued to answer the call more and more over his years so far.

Heflin is pushing hard for Lancaster's role, and honestly I think will chew that spot from Lancaster. Lancaster's issue is he doesn't have that explosiveness, however he is VERY good at his playcall role, he diverts and plugs quite well - he isn't blown out of a play very often at all - he just doesn't have his nose in the plays often too however.

Lowry is a very high floor and dependable guy who is consistent. Overpaid, yes now years removed from his contract (which at the time appeared to be excellent for what we all hoped he would grow into)...but he is very consistent and unlike Lancaster will seem to get his nose in more.

 

[Krabs]

To overlook Keke and what he has done growth wise, grading out wise over his time in the league is missing the boat. Keke's role is different than Slaton, but has been extremely dependable and has continued to answer the call more and more over his years so far.

Heflin is pushing hard for Lancaster's role, and honestly I think will chew that spot from Lancaster. Lancaster's issue is he doesn't have that explosiveness, however he is VERY good at his playcall role, he diverts and plugs quite well - he isn't blown out of a play very often at all - he just doesn't have his nose in the plays often too however.

Lowry is a very high floor and dependable guy who is consistent. Overpaid, yes now years removed from his contract (which at the time appeared to be excellent for what we all hoped he would grow into)...but he is very consistent and unlike Lancaster will seem to get his nose in more.

You think I'm missing the boat? Keke grades at a 69.1 with 11 tackles and 4 sacks on the season. That is nothing spectacular. He is a shoe in to make the roster but needs to step it up this next year big time. I'm willing to give him more time and hopeful with the added weight that he will take a step forward. Lowry grades at a 57.3 with 20 tackles on the season. He should have been much better for as much time as he as had. To say he has a high floor is being way more optimistic than most fans who have seen his inconsistent play for too many seasons. He will be a cut at the end of this season. I do like Lancaster. I like his work ethic and his story. However, I've just seen him get pushed back and pancaked too many times to want him on the team. He also grades at a 64.8 overall with only 13 tackles. There just has to be better than him out there. I'm hoping Slaton is the real deal and we barely see Lancaster on the field.

I get that some play different spots on the DL and that some play different roles. From my perspective this is the worst position for skill and depth on the entire team.

 

[tynimiller]

You think I'm missing the boat? Keke grades at a 69.1 with 11 tackles and 4 sacks on the season. That is nothing spectacular. He is a shoe in to make the roster but needs to step it up this next year big time. I'm willing to give him more time and hopeful with the added weight that he will take a step forward. Lowry grades at a 57.3 with 20 tackles on the season. He should have been much better for as much time as he as had. To say he has a high floor is being way more optimistic than most fans who have seen his inconsistent play for too many seasons. He will be a cut at the end of this season. I do like Lancaster. I like his work ethic and his story. However, I've just seen him get pushed back and pancaked too many times to want him on the team. He also grades at a 64.8 overall with only 13 tackles. There just has to be better than him out there. I'm hoping Slaton is the real deal and we barely see Lancaster on the field.

I get that some play different spots on the DL and that some play different roles. From my perspective this is the worst position for skill and depth on the entire team.

Keke graded out per PFF only 4.1 points from Kenny Clark for 2021 - some other metrics have them slightly closer others slightly farther apart...but given you brought up the 69.1 I know you used PFF.

Also my critique of your review isn't to say I don't have high hopes for Slaton, I was one of few in pre-draft discussions that I liked Slaton a lot especially if he slid to Day 3 - his athleticism made a swing on him massively worth it. I truly think Slaton will see overall the 4th highest snaps behind only Clark, Lowry and Keke by year's end though I expect he and Keke will be seeing basically the same snaps per game or he might even push for more than Keke; and I predict that swing will be somewhere around the last 1/3 of the season - if he continues to progress as he seemingly has from the moment he stepped on the practice field and through the two preseason games.

 

[mradtke66]

I’d also point out that 4 sacks from Keke, an interior player, is actually pretty good.

 

[Krabs]

I don't mind Keke. I hope he makes a jump this season. I just think he has been inconsistent and a player that I don't really trust. To me, it is more of a surprise when he makes a play as opposed to expecting him to make one. I just think the d-line is the worst position for talent and depth on the team. I just can't believe there are not better players to be had than the likes of Lowry and Lancaster. To use some creative wording, I think they stink!

 

[tynimiller]

I don't mind Keke. I hope he makes a jump this season. I just think he has been inconsistent and a player that I don't really trust. To me, it is more of a surprise when he makes a play as opposed to expecting him to make one. I just think the d-line is the worst position for talent and depth on the team. I just can't believe there are not better players to be had than the likes of Lowry and Lancaster. To use some creative wording, I think they stink!

Inconsistent...I'm sorry I just gotta assume this is based on nothing except speculation. At times you seem to make a lot of statements based on pure speculation and nothing more - which is fine to do, but I'm sorry Keke has been one of the actual shining spots of our defensive line when it comes to consistently taking steps forward in his progression as a football player. Shoot some would argue he was the only one last year that did so, even Clark had a slightly down year in 2020 compared to his 2019 (I disagree with that but I've heard that from pundits).

Many folks here agree with you (raises my own hand) that the overall weakest position group is DL, and many would love to see Lancaster get bumped from the position group by Heflin...if nothing more than have a younger guy with what appears to be a higher ceiling that is motivated. I love Lancaster the guy, great kid, but his time has come IMO.

@captainWIMM probably said it best about the DL group in that it hasn't regressed for sure, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Slaton has played amazingly well, but I think folks expecting our hopeful growth to come from a raw (but very athletic) rookie drafted on Day 3 to slow their roll just a bit. Keke is the guy one justified to expect that growth to come from given he is entering his third season now and has shown steady and consistent progress. If Slaton steals snaps from Lancaster and can spell Clark on maybe two series a game without much of a drop his rookie year that will be awesome (and I truly think he can do that).

Heflin appears to be the type of guy you want to take that future swing on given his ceiling being unknown at the moment (Lancaster's I feel is pretty crystalized as bottom depth guy). Again preseason but the dude nearly graded out at 80 (79.7) according to PFF in that second preseason game - that's freaking awesome!

Previlon is a guy quietly staying active from what I'm hearing as well...second year after a Covid rookie season, things could start clicking for him too.

Either way we all agree the DL group as a whole has a lot to prove, our top shelf is arguably one of the best (Clark), we have that middle shelf consistent guy in Lowry (not a big play guy, but consistent)...and then we have a guy like Keke that clearly has more upside than Lowry, can make big plays it seems more and hopefully should progress more. Then it is a collection of depth guys or young guys we don't know about yet in Previlon, Heflin, Kemp, Slaton to name a few...all this is why I was kinda hoping Snacks would resign cheap for us again honestly.

 

[Krabs]

Inconsistent...I'm sorry I just gotta assume this is based on nothing except speculation. At times you seem to make a lot of statements based on pure speculation and nothing more - which is fine to do, but I'm sorry Keke has been one of the actual shining spots of our defensive line when it comes to consistently taking steps forward in his progression as a football player. Shoot some would argue he was the only one last year that did so, even Clark had a slightly down year in 2020 compared to his 2019 (I disagree with that but I've heard that from pundits).

Either way we all agree the DL group as a whole has a lot to prove, our top shelf is arguably one of the best (Clark), we have that middle shelf consistent guy in Lowry (not a big play guy, but consistent)...and then we have a guy like Keke that clearly has more upside than Lowry, can make big plays it seems more and hopefully should progress more. Then it is a collection of depth guys or young guys we don't know about yet in Previlon, Heflin, Kemp, Slaton to name a few...all this is why I was kinda hoping Snacks would resign cheap for us again honestly.

My statement on Keke is what I call the eyeball test. 9 solo tackles on the season with 4 sacks. Again, I'm glad we have him, but I'm sticking with inconsistent especially when he had 51.8% of the snaps at his position. I totally agree that he has a big upside. I'm just saying we need to start seeing it more.

I just can't get behind how you think Lowry is a middle shelf consistent guy. I think he is the definition of inconsistent. 12 solo tackles with 3 sacks and he plays a lot of snaps. I'm sorry, dude needs to go. We can upgrade from him easily. The only reason I don't think we have is because of his contract. I think it is okay to disagree though. If we were better at this we would be the ones in the front office.

 

[tynimiller]

My statement on Keke is what I call the eyeball test. 9 solo tackles on the season with 4 sacks. Again, I'm glad we have him, but I'm sticking with inconsistent especially when he had 51.8% of the snaps at his position. I totally agree that he has a big upside. I'm just saying we need to start seeing it more.

I just can't get behind how you think Lowry is a middle shelf consistent guy. I think he is the definition of inconsistent. 12 solo tackles with 3 sacks and he plays a lot of snaps. I'm sorry, dude needs to go. We can upgrade from him easily. The only reason I don't think we have is because of his contract. I think it is okay to disagree though. If we were better at this we would be the ones in the front office.

Lowry is the definition of middle of the road guy that seems to only do precisely his role and never appears to do more or illustrate controlling a game let alone a play. BUT listen to staff, and watch the game film specifically on him - he gets beat sure, everyone does even Clark, on plays but he typically does his role on a given play. He understands the defense, will deliver adaquate NFL caliber play - this doesn't mean I'm satisfied with it or anyone but to say he isn't precisely what he is, is a misguided approach to him IMO.

As for Keke, no clue where you are getting your stats from. In 2020 he had 21 tackles (12 solo and 9 assists), 4 sacks, 1 forced fumble on 416 snaps and saw 15 games played. That is a tackle every 19.8 snaps and sack every 104 snaps.

Relational to him:

Clark saw 597 snaps in 2020, had 41 tackles (28 solo, 13 assists), 2 sacks and no FFs. That is a tackle every 14.56 snaps and a sack every 298.5 snaps.

Lowry saw 602 snaps in 2020, had 36 Tackles (14 solo, 22 assists), 3 sacks and no FFs. That is a tackle every 16.7 snaps and a sack every 200.66 snaps.

Perhaps best DL in the league Aaron Donald saw 865 snaps in 2020, had 45 Tackles and 13.5 Sacks. That is a tackle every 19.2 snaps and a sack every 64.07 snaps.

Now those are just statistical comparisons...each player is asked to do different things somewhat, and each of those players are targeted by the opposition in a different way. BUT all that does illustrate that Keke is a far better player than you're willing to give him credit for and has already exceeded any expectation most in the organization or those that study draft prospects probably had for him entering the league. He had NO business seeing as much action as he did his second year but limited time (94 snaps) his rookie was backed up and he demanded a LOT more snaps in 2020 (his second year) seeing more than 4x the increase in usage.

 

[tynimiller]

12 solo tackles with 3 sacks and he plays a lot of snaps. I'm sorry, dude needs to go. We can upgrade from him easily. The only reason I don't think we have is because of his contract.

FTR I predicted he would be cut this off-season.

 

[mradtke66]

My statement on Keke is what I call the eyeball test. 9 solo tackles on the season with 4 sacks. Again, I'm glad we have him, but I'm sticking with inconsistent especially when he had 51.8% of the snaps at his position. I totally agree that he has a big upside. I'm just saying we need to start seeing it more.

I just can't get behind how you think Lowry is a middle shelf consistent guy. I think he is the definition of inconsistent. 12 solo tackles with 3 sacks and he plays a lot of snaps. I'm sorry, dude needs to go. We can upgrade from him easily. The only reason I don't think we have is because of his contract. I think it is okay to disagree though. If we were better at this we would be the ones in the front office.

3 and 4 sacks, while not world beating, is honestly pretty good for interior defenders.

And tackles are not a particular telling stat at all. More sacks are good, TFLs are good, but if all they do is eat blocks and let the linebackers make tackles, they have likely done their job.

 

[tynimiller]

3 and 4 sacks, while not world beating, is honestly pretty good for interior defenders.

And tackles are not a particular telling stat at all. More sacks are good, TFLs are good, but if all they do is eat blocks and let the linebackers make tackles, they have likely done their job.

1,000% correct.

 

[OldSchool101]

I actually think Rodgers does less this year than many of us suspect, but will smile if wrong. There is just a lot of guys in that WR room, and it is very evident Cobb will get nod at slot vastly more.

Yeah. That WR room is stacked deep with solid veterans. I like the taking pressure off of Rookies and giving them a redshirt season to learn, unless it’s a top 50 type selection.. that type WR placement should be vying for a starting role.

I get that some play different spots on the DL and that some play different roles. From my perspective this is the worst position for skill and depth on the entire team

I read several years ago that the more recent philosophy of many modern Defenses was leaning @ more athletic iDL as a major key. That 285-300lb was becoming more the mean.

iDL are expected to have enough power to eat double teams and enough short area quickness to win 1-1 matchups. Kenny Clark is a prime example of that philosophy. True 0-T guys have almost become like the FB position, going extinct. But what I saw with Slaton is that he is surprisingly quick for approx 330lb. He helped flush and chase Zach Wilson clear across to the sideline and just enough to seal the edge and force a throw rather than what could’ve been an easy 10+ yard sideline scamper. I wouldn’t expect that from a big man like him, not that I’m putting him in the anchor of the 400M relay team here, but he’s got some good 10-15 yard burst.

 

[mradtke66]

I read several years ago that the more recent philosophy of many modern Defenses was leaning @ more athletic iDL as a major key. That 285-300lb was becoming more the mean.

It's really hard. I think you are basically correct though.

It's a passing league, so you want pass defenders. For linemen, that means favoring pass rush ability. That tends to mean smaller and faster. (though obviously that is relative. 285 is still a big man.)

No one is going to turn down a big man who is ALSO fast and a good pass rusher, but one tends to exclude the other. Having one man anchor on 1st and 2nd down still has value.

This trend goes back to our Super Bowl Team in '96. Sure we had as your anchor Gilbert at 360 or however huge he was, but Dotson was 275-285-ish and a better rusher. Sean Jones was 270 and was the weakside speed rusher. Yeah, Reggie was 305-315, but he's an anomaly. Just like Watt is today.

 

[Krabs]

Lowry is the definition of middle of the road guy that seems to only do precisely his role and never appears to do more or illustrate controlling a game let alone a play. BUT listen to staff, and watch the game film specifically on him - he gets beat sure, everyone does even Clark, on plays but he typically does his role on a given play. He understands the defense, will deliver adaquate NFL caliber play - this doesn't mean I'm satisfied with it or anyone but to say he isn't precisely what he is, is a misguided approach to him IMO.

As for Keke, no clue where you are getting your stats from. In 2020 he had 21 tackles (12 solo and 9 assists), 4 sacks, 1 forced fumble on 416 snaps and saw 15 games played. That is a tackle every 19.8 snaps and sack every 104 snaps.

Relational to him:

Clark saw 597 snaps in 2020, had 41 tackles (28 solo, 13 assists), 2 sacks and no FFs. That is a tackle every 14.56 snaps and a sack every 298.5 snaps.

Lowry saw 602 snaps in 2020, had 36 Tackles (14 solo, 22 assists), 3 sacks and no FFs. That is a tackle every 16.7 snaps and a sack every 200.66 snaps.

Perhaps best DL in the league Aaron Donald saw 865 snaps in 2020, had 45 Tackles and 13.5 Sacks. That is a tackle every 19.2 snaps and a sack every 64.07 snaps.

Now those are just statistical comparisons...each player is asked to do different things somewhat, and each of those players are targeted by the opposition in a different way. BUT all that does illustrate that Keke is a far better player than you're willing to give him credit for and has already exceeded any expectation most in the organization or those that study draft prospects probably had for him entering the league. He had NO business seeing as much action as he did his second year but limited time (94 snaps) his rookie was backed up and he demanded a LOT more snaps in 2020 (his second year) seeing more than 4x the increase in usage.

I didn't think I would see someone defending Lowry. I personally think he is far from adequate. Regardless, I think this is just chalked up as a disagreement. He's way overpaid for what he does and I think he is easily upgraded. I'm much higher on Keke. My only point is that he hasn't been consistent enough for me to totally trust his play. Again, I think the DL is the least talented position on the team and has the least depth. I get it. You can't have everything and there is a weak spot on most every team.

As for Slaton, I didn't hate the pick to begin with and what has been said I'm pretty happy with having him. I know he is a rookie, but I still think he has to perform for the line to be successful. I'm hopeful he at least takes Lancasters snaps away.

 

[OldSchool101]

It's really hard. I think you are basically correct though.

It's a passing league, so you want pass defenders. For linemen, that means favoring pass rush ability. That tends to mean smaller and faster. (though obviously that is relative. 285 is still a big man.)

No one is going to turn down a big man who is ALSO fast and a good pass rusher, but one tends to exclude the other. Having one man anchor on 1st and 2nd down still has value.

This trend goes back to our Super Bowl Team in '96. Sure we had as your anchor Gilbert at 360 or however huge he was, but Dotson was 275-285-ish and a better rusher. Sean Jones was 270 and was the weakside speed rusher. Yeah, Reggie was 305-315, but he's an anomaly. Just like Watt is today.

I think the philosophy of a more balanced DL prospect was seen in picking 282lb Rashan Gary that high. He’s got the athletic makeup of a 250OLb and the brute strength of a 315lb DT. They can use him anywhere from 3-4T and beyond. His versatility is extremely appealing and it’ll be interesting to see how our new DC utilizes him.
I’m also wondering if Slaton’s draft selection was promoted by Joe Barry. Slaton seems like a similar type mold (albeit a poor man’s) of A’Shawn Robinson (6’4X330lb). Who coincidentally was signed by the Rams in FA last year, whom however sat out much of the season with an injury designation.

 

[tynimiller]

I didn't think I would see someone defending Lowry. I personally think he is far from adequate. Regardless, I think this is just chalked up as a disagreement. He's way overpaid for what he does and I think he is easily upgraded. I'm much higher on Keke. My only point is that he hasn't been consistent enough for me to totally trust his play. Again, I think the DL is the least talented position on the team and has the least depth. I get it. You can't have everything and there is a weak spot on most every team.

As for Slaton, I didn't hate the pick to begin with and what has been said I'm pretty happy with having him. I know he is a rookie, but I still think he has to perform for the line to be successful. I'm hopeful he at least takes Lancasters snaps away.

You're misconstruing what I'm saying about Lowry as a defense of him, far from it. I called for his cut this off season and have on record stated he isn't worth his contract - he like Nick Perry never kept progressing but looked awesome on rookie deal.

 

[OldSchool101]

You're misconstruing what I'm saying about Lowry as a defense of him, far from it. I called for his cut this off season and have on record stated he isn't worth his contract - he like Nick Perry never kept progressing but looked awesome on rookie deal.

Not trying to instigate anything here.
Lowry has just been Mr. reliable. Hasn’t missed a game and has added a veteran value there on our DL. Admittedly, He’s not a flashy player and he took a small step backwards last year, but not enough to warrant parting ways either.
My hope is Lowry will repeat his 2019 type season performance or better. I think he’s one of those guys who’s just ok, but good enough to allow us to focus on other weaker areas. He buys us time, but he’d better step it up a notch this season.
I did like he also worked with us freely on his restructure, allowing us void years to spread his monies through 2023 and creating a reasonable cap hit this season of around 4mil. It’d be nice if someone else stole his job though.

 

[mradtke66]

I think the philosophy of a more balanced DL prospect was seen in picking 282lb Rashan Gary that high. He’s got the athletic makeup of a 250OLb and the brute strength of a 315lb DT. They can use him anywhere from 3-4T and beyond. His versatility is extremely appealing and it’ll be interesting to see how our new DC utilizes him.

Honestly, I hope he stays on the edge, though I don't mind stunts and the like. Or if he lines up with his hand in the dirt. I think too many young edge rushers get distracted even if they are physically capable enough to do it.

Put him on a side, tell him to get the quarterback, and then get out of his way. (Obviously not that basic, but you get the idea.)

I’m also wondering if Slaton’s draft selection was promoted by Joe Barry. Slaton seems like a similar type mold (albeit a poor man’s) of A’Shawn Robinson (6’4X330lb). Who coincidentally was signed by the Rams in FA last year, whom however sat out much of the season with an injury designation.

My hope is that it allows Clark to breathe now and then, allow Clark to take some 3T snaps, and allow for some bigger bodies down on the goal line. If turns out Slaton has some pass rush as well, that's just gravy.

 

[Dantés]

The Fangio branch of NFL defenses use light boxes more than anyone. I believe the two teams with the highest % of light boxes last year were Denver (Fangio) and LA (Fangio disciple Staley).

One of the ways they get away with this is by having DL who can use angles to cover more than their gap. Some football people call it playing a gap and a half. It’s not the true 2 gapping of 3-4 defenses from 20 years ago, but it’s a similar idea.

Slaton is young and we shouldn’t put unrealistic expectations on him, but he is at least the type of player who could execute this approach to the DL.

 

[Snoops]

I don't mind Keke. I hope he makes a jump this season. I just think he has been inconsistent and a player that I don't really trust. To me, it is more of a surprise when he makes a play as opposed to expecting him to make one. I just think the d-line is the worst position for talent and depth on the team. I just can't believe there are not better players to be had than the likes of Lowry and Lancaster. To use some creative wording, I think they stink!

Finally someone agrees with me about Lancaster and Lowry… I’m gonna correct you a little tho they F****n BLOW they have no business being on the team Lowry a back up at best

 

[GleefulGary]

I didn't think I would see someone defending Lowry. I personally think he is far from adequate. Regardless, I think this is just chalked up as a disagreement. He's way overpaid for what he does and I think he is easily upgraded. I'm much higher on Keke. My only point is that he hasn't been consistent enough for me to totally trust his play. Again, I think the DL is the least talented position on the team and has the least depth. I get it. You can't have everything and there is a weak spot on most every team.

As for Slaton, I didn't hate the pick to begin with and what has been said I'm pretty happy with having him. I know he is a rookie, but I still think he has to perform for the line to be successful. I'm hopeful he at least takes Lancasters snaps away.

If he was easily replaced, they would have done so. Lowry isn’t a word beater, and he was disappointing last year, but in general, he’s a solid player.

The scheme they had was designed for the iDL to mainly take on blocks. Knowledge of what they’re doing explains lack of sacks. Don’t box score scout.

 

[tynimiller]

If he was easily replaced, they would have done so. Lowry isn’t a word beater, and he was disappointing last year, but in general, he’s a solid player.

The scheme they had was designed for the iDL to mainly take on blocks. Knowledge of what they’re doing explains lack of sacks. Don’t box score scout.

Exactly but many here have a strong inability to see this

 

[Krabs]

If he was easily replaced, they would have done so. Lowry isn’t a word beater, and he was disappointing last year, but in general, he’s a solid player.

The scheme they had was designed for the iDL to mainly take on blocks. Knowledge of what they’re doing explains lack of sacks. Don’t box score scout.

One of the major reasons why they keep Lowry is because of his contract. I'm not a betting man, but I would wager a lot that he is not around next season. If he is, it's because they renegotiated his contract for much less.

I watch every game and not every opinion I have is based off of the box score. Lancaster and Lowry both fail the eyeball test and the stat book. Stats tell a story by the way. I get that plugging the line to free up linebackers will lower a DTs stats. They're not even plugging up holes. I'll say it again, this is the weakest position on the roster. Point is, I think for this line to be successful this season Slaton has to be a major part of the DT rotations.

 

[Deleted member 11740]

1,000% correct.

Generally

3 and 4 sacks, while not world beating, is honestly pretty good for interior defenders.

And tackles are not a particular telling stat at all. More sacks are good, TFLs are good, but if all they do is eat blocks and let the linebackers make tackles, they have likely done their job.