Packers should have lost

[net]

I'm giddy the Packers finally got some of the breaks going their way.

1)Gado was down in the endzone(look at replay of his knee) when he "tossed" the ball forward. The play was already done in the endzone for a safety, regardless also that Tauscher was holding, which is also a safety.
That would have put the Lions up by 2 with the Packers kicking to them.
Oddly enough, I mentioned to my wife that they should pull the old "step out of the endzone" trick if they have to punt. The kicker merely takes a step back from the endline for a safety. While relinquishing two points, you also gain 20 yards on the subsequent kick, which is done without a rush. Kicking from the backline means your kick is 15 yards to the line of scrimmage, and even if you hit it well, it's going to land about your 40 yard line. Easy pickin's for an NFL offense. All moot, and I'm glad the refs tossed one Green Bay's way....once. Also enjoyed the support Sherman got from the broadcast team for helping in the schnooker of the refs.

2)The dropped pass by Roy Williams. He was gone. There was one man to beat to the end zone. Game over, or nearly.

3)Thanks, too, to Shaun Rogers who proved the Packers aren't the only team with numbskulls in crucial situations.

I'll take the victory, regardless.

 

[longtimefan]

I'm giddy the Packers finally got some of the breaks going their way.

1)Gado was down in the endzone(look at replay of his knee) when he "tossed" the ball forward. The play was already done in the endzone for a safety,

It was ruled a pass, because he was BEHIND the line of scrimmage, and he tossed it forward, so the rule says it is a forward pass..Knee down or not, ( I never could see nor did I hear any announcer mention he was down)

The play was already done in the endzone for a safety, regardless also that Tauscher was holding, which is also a safety.

Mark started the hold OUT of the end zone and that is how the penalty was called...Even though he did hold him in the end zone, it started outside of the end zone, and that is when it was called holding...That would explain half the distance to the goal line...

 

[Ryan]

His knee wasn't down, both his legs were on top of another player when he was laying down - good enough for me

 

[GakkofNorway]

Why doesn't every back throw the ball away on a stuffed toss?

 

[wpr]

The play was already done in the endzone for a safety, regardless also that Tauscher was holding, which is also a safety.

Mark started the hold OUT of the end zone and that is how the penalty was called...Even though he did hold him in the end zone, it started outside of the end zone, and that is when it was called holding...That would explain half the distance to the goal line...

If the line of scrimage is at the 1 foot line and the offense has to line up behind the LOS are they not already in the endzone before the ball is snapped?
So you are saying that Mark went beyond the LOS (which is ok for the running play he thought they were running but not on the pass play it turned into) held the guy and was driven back into the endzone. Then were is the flag for illegal receiver down field?

No matter how you look at it the play seems to have been called wrong by the officals somewhere. Like GakkofNorway says what's to keep every running back from throwing an incomplete pass when he is outside the tackles and being thrown for a loss?

 

[rabidgopher04]

Like GakkofNorway says what's to keep every running back from throwing an incomplete pass when he is outside the tackles and being thrown for a loss?

If there's no one on your team in front of you to cover it up in case the refs rule it a fumble. Regardless I thought it was a brilliant move and maybe we'll see more of it in the NFL.

It WAS a legal pass and I was arguing that when the refs made their original call. The only thing that was questionable on that play was where they spotted the hold.

 

[wpr]

Like GakkofNorway says what's to keep every running back from throwing an incomplete pass when he is outside the tackles and being thrown for a loss?

If there's no one on your team in front of you to cover it up in case the refs rule it a fumble. Regardless I thought it was a brilliant move and maybe we'll see more of it in the NFL.

It WAS a legal pass and I was arguing that when the refs made their original call. The only thing that was questionable on that play was where they spotted the hold.

It was a brillant move on Gado's part since they got away with it. But can they really consider Leach the receiver when there was no chance for him to make the catch?

 

[DePack]

longtimefan is right. The refs....actually got the call right. Tauscher's hold took place out of the endzone. Rules state that the holding call is marked off from when the offensive lineman first engages with the defensive player. This was clearly out side the endzone. If Gado's knee was down then Jauron screwed up by not challenging the call. Man, I'm glad we have a head coach that has impeccable knowledge of the rules and is astute enough to set everybody straight. Here we go!

 

[IGHPack]

Why doesn't every back throw the ball away on a stuffed toss?

I think most backs do not throw a pass, because it can very easily be ruled a fumble and recovered by the opposing team.

 

[wpr]

longtimefan is right. The refs....actually got the call right. Tauscher's hold took place out of the endzone. Rules state that the holding call is marked off from when the offensive lineman first engages with the defensive player. This was clearly out side the endzone. If Gado's knee was down then Jauron screwed up by not challenging the call. Man, I'm glad we have a head coach that has impeccable knowledge of the rules and is astute enough to set everybody straight. Here we go!

I am not an expert in the rules so I need as how far down field is a lineman allowed to be prior to a pass? I think the refs would allow him to be a step or two beyond the line since they are hitting the guy across the line from them and can't look down to see where they are.

 

[DePack]

wpr, he was actually run blocking on that play so he "fired out" instead of retreating as if he was pass blocking. Fortunately, the lions d-linemen blew the o-line away that play so nobody made it downfield, otherwise it would have been an illegal man downfield.

 

[wpr]

Right DePack. I know he was run blocking I guess that is why I am saying perhaps the officals blew the call. Since he fired off the line- like he should on a run play- he crossed the LOS. So where's the penalty for that?
I figure that the officals must be looking the other way if the lineman is engaged in a block and is not more than a couple of yards off the line at the time.
But I don't know if the rule book gives them a couple of yards or it is just common practice to allow the OL a couple of steps. You know like the old, "there's a holding penalty on every play if they want to look for it."

 

[TOPackerFan]

I think you're allowed to be one yard past the LOS on a pass play without being flagged, but I'm no totally sure about that.

 

[longtimefan]

Right DePack. I know he was run blocking I guess that is why I am saying perhaps the officals blew the call. Since he fired off the line- like he should on a run play- he crossed the LOS. So where's the penalty for that?

That is a good question...sometimes no matter how much football you watch or even played, something still happens that you are totaly confused about...LOL

 

[tkpckfan]

I'm giddy the Packers finally got some of the breaks going their way.

1)Gado was down in the endzone(look at replay of his knee) when he "tossed" the ball forward. The play was already done in the endzone for a safety, regardless also that Tauscher was holding, which is also a safety.
That would have put the Lions up by 2 with the Packers kicking to them.
Oddly enough, I mentioned to my wife that they should pull the old "step out of the endzone" trick if they have to punt. The kicker merely takes a step back from the endline for a safety. While relinquishing two points, you also gain 20 yards on the subsequent kick, which is done without a rush. Kicking from the backline means your kick is 15 yards to the line of scrimmage, and even if you hit it well, it's going to land about your 40 yard line. Easy pickin's for an NFL offense. All moot, and I'm glad the refs tossed one Green Bay's way....once. Also enjoyed the support Sherman got from the broadcast team for helping in the schnooker of the refs.

2)The dropped pass by Roy Williams. He was gone. There was one man to beat to the end zone. Game over, or nearly.

3)Thanks, too, to Shaun Rogers who proved the Packers aren't the only team with numbskulls in crucial situations.

I'll take the victory, regardless.

yea me too but i dont want to here that sh** from anyone. you know how many plays this year havent gone are way. this one did and all i have ot say is about damn time

 

[Greg C.]

When Sherman threw that challenge flag, I thought it was the stupidest in-game decision he had ever made as head coach of the Packers. But it turned out to be his most brilliant in-game decision. Go figure. Others in this thread have explained the officials' calls, and I suppose they might possibly make sense. I hadn't realized that a grounding penalty could be challenged. Or maybe it wasn't an official challenge, but Sherman's throwing the flag gave the refs a chance to huddle up and discuss what had happened. Whatever the case, we were due to have something like this go in our favor.

 

[big3]

my question is, did the ball go past the line of scrimmage? Wasn't looking for that part when watching the game, but in hindsight if the ball never crossed the line of scrimmage wouldn't that still be a fumble even if it was a forward pass?

 

[wpr]

my question is, did the ball go past the line of scrimmage? Wasn't looking for that part when watching the game, but in hindsight if the ball never crossed the line of scrimmage wouldn't that still be a fumble even if it was a forward pass?

It did cross the line. It made it to about the 2.

 

[Bruce]

It was not only a brilliant challenge because of its timeliness, but because his interpretation of the rules that he pointed out to the officials made it unchallengeable by Detroit.

The reason you won’t see it happening more is there is a better than a 50% chance that it will be ruled a fumble and inconclusive upon review.

As to the down the field question, if the lineman is engaged in a block initiated at the line of scrimmage they are generally allowed as much as 3 yards as long as they remain within the tackle to tackle box.

The holding penalty was called immediately on a running play which was ruled to have been at the line of scrimmage (a non-reviewable) judgment call. The fact that he continued to hold as he was driven back into the end zone is irrelevant – once the call is made all subsequent action does not matter unless it is a different penalty than the one already called – say for instance a face mask or unnecessary roughness penalty…

This is a time that even 66 will have to give it up for Sherman and admit it was a on the field coaching decision that changed the outcome of this game.

 

[DePack]

Yea...it wasn't actually a challenge. Sherm got their attention and then explained the rule. After that the officials huddled up.

 

[big3]

And you guys want sherman fired? Talks refs into taking points away from the lions and doesn't even lose a challenge doing it. Brilliant.

 

[PackinSteel]

Total Access on NFL Network has their weekly chat with the head of officials coming up and they will look at this play...

 

[rabidgopher04]

Total Access on NFL Network has their weekly chat with the head of officials coming up and they will look at this play...

If you could summarize it for those of us who can't watch that would be great!

 

[IPBprez]

It was not only a brilliant challenge because of its timeliness, but because his interpretation of the rules that he pointed out to the officials made it unchallengeable by Detroit.

The reason you won’t see it happening more is there is a better than a 50% chance that it will be ruled a fumble and inconclusive upon review.

As to the down the field question, if the lineman is engaged in a block initiated at the line of scrimmage they are generally allowed as much as 3 yards as long as they remain within the tackle to tackle box.

The holding penalty was called immediately on a running play which was ruled to have been at the line of scrimmage (a non-reviewable) judgment call. The fact that he continued to hold as he was driven back into the end zone is irrelevant – once the call is made all subsequent action does not matter unless it is a different penalty than the one already called – say for instance a face mask or unnecessary roughness penalty…

This is a time that even 66 will have to give it up for Sherman and admit it was a on the field coaching decision that changed the outcome of this game.

I was gonna jump in here with DePack's first post - but, I see there's no need.

Good write-up, Bruce!

I'd like to hear what the NFL Channel has to say, as well.
Not gonna even bother with ESPN... you all know why!

 

[PackinSteel]

I'm recording it so I can summarize with the most accuracy...