Packers at Dallas Live Game Thread (Week4)

Pokerbrat2000

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I am still scratching my head when it comes to our kickoff return unit. Is Bisaccia actually telling them "If the ball hits in the landing zone and bounces into the end zone, down it and lets settle for the 20 yard line"? If THAT is his strategy, it tells me what I need to know about his coaching. "Let's just play it safe, because I don't trust any of you not to make a mistake."

While it may not happen midseason, MLF has to take a long hard look at Bisaccia in the offseason. His special teams are unreliable, and far from special.
 

milani

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I am still scratching my head when it comes to our kickoff return unit. Is Bisaccia actually telling them "If the ball hits in the landing zone and bounces into the end zone, down it and lets settle for the 20 yard line"? If THAT is his strategy, it tells me what I need to know about his coaching. "Let's just play it safe, because I don't trust any of you not to make a mistake."

While it may not happen midseason, MLF has to take a long hard look at Bisaccia in the offseason. His special teams are unreliable, and far from special.
And I thought that when Bisaccia arrived that we no longer had to cringe when we have a placekick. Instead we still do. But to your point I believe by not running the ball back we do not get a yellow flag for an illegal block and thus we do not start at our 10. That may have been his thinking. And Dallas kicked off 7 times last night.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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And I thought that when Bisaccia arrived that we no longer had to cringe when we have a placekick. Instead we still do. But to your point I believe by not running the ball back we do not get a yellow flag for an illegal block and thus we do not start at our 10. That may have been his thinking. And Dallas kicked off 7 times last night.

Yup and THAT my friend is loser mentality football.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I still want to know why Bisaccia is always next to MLF on the sidelines. Is he co-coaching with him? Because if that is the case, it really doesn't seem to be working well for the unit that Bisaccia is being paid to coach.
 

tynimiller

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I still want to know why Bisaccia is always next to MLF on the sidelines. Is he co-coaching with him? Because if that is the case, it really doesn't seem to be working well for the unit that Bisaccia is being paid to coach.

The designated assistant head coach almost always does this. I think the first thing I'd do if nothing else is remove that designation from Rich and tell him solely focus on ST, cuz that **** gotta change. He's been that since March of 2023....a year and few days after we hired him in Feb of 2022.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The designated assistant head coach almost always does this. I think the first thing I'd do if nothing else is remove that designation from Rich and tell him solely focus on ST, cuz that **** gotta change. He's been that since March of 2023....a year and few days after we hired him in Feb of 2022.

The other change I would make, if this season doesn't end well is this. If Gute retains MLF as HC, he removes play calling from his job and hires a full time OC. I just don't think MLF has the chops to call plays in the heat of the moment. He reverts back to what he thinks should work (when the game started). Sometimes I feel like he is a deer in the headlights when the pressure gets too intense.
 

tynimiller

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The other change I would make, if this season doesn't end well is this. If Gute retains MLF as HC, he removes play calling from his job and hires a full time OC. I just don't think MLF has the chops to call plays in the heat of the moment. He reverts back to what he thinks should work (when the game started). Sometimes I feel like he is a deer in the headlights when the pressure gets too intense.

That to me would be a very dangerous thing to do....MLF is an awesome playcaller and I bet if you polled other coaches he'd be in the Top10 in the league without blinking. Roll that wrong and you could massively regret it. NOW if it's a thing where MLF actually designs everything and perhaps even at times does the calling (scripted series at start or out of breaks/halftime/timeouts and such) I could see this work.
 

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That to me would be a very dangerous thing to do....MLF is an awesome playcaller and I bet if you polled other coaches he'd be in the Top10 in the league without blinking. Roll that wrong and you could massively regret it. NOW if it's a thing where MLF actually designs everything and perhaps even at times does the calling (scripted series at start or out of breaks/halftime/timeouts and such) I could see this work.

MLF may have a brilliant offensive mind, but I think he is wearing too many hats at times and it shows in times of pressure. Poor timeout decisions, getting plays into Love late, making in game changes.

MLF would still have a STRONG presence in the playbook and obviously would be listening in. I just think letting someone else call the plays, ones that MLF has had a ton of influence on, frees him up to do what a HC is supposed to do, manage the entire game better.

The other option and it won't happen, but MLF becomes the full time OC and a new HC is brought in. I don't know if that has ever happened in the NFL (HC demoted to OC or DC for same team). I will guarantee you this, if MLF loses his HC job in Green Bay, he will be a hot commodity as an OC for another team.
 

tynimiller

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The other option and it won't happen, but MLF becomes the full time OC and a new HC is brought in. I don't know if that has ever happened in the NFL (HC demoted to OC or DC for same team). I will guarantee you this, if MLF loses his HC job in Green Bay, he will be a hot commodity as an HC for another team.

You mistyped. Fixed it for you - MLF is one of the best HC in the league. Easily top half.
 

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I am still scratching my head when it comes to our kickoff return unit. Is Bisaccia actually telling them "If the ball hits in the landing zone and bounces into the end zone, down it and lets settle for the 20 yard line"? If THAT is his strategy, it tells me what I need to know about his coaching. "Let's just play it safe, because I don't trust any of you not to make a mistake."

While it may not happen midseason, MLF has to take a long hard look at Bisaccia in the offseason. His special teams are unreliable, and far from special.
They did that at least 3 times, unacceptable to say the least. Stand on the goal line, if you have to move forward at all, catch it and run. If you have to back up down it and get the ball at the 35. This isn't rocket science.
 

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You mistyped. Fixed it for you - MLF is one of the best HC in the league. Easily top half.
Wondering what you think the job of the HC is. If it's regular season w/L record, pretty hard to argue he isn't good. If it's making sure the three phases are operating to the best of their ability, it sure looks like he's missing the boat.
 

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Can I just say... win, lose or draw, that was one hell of a football game?
Sure, you can say it. In fact, if you're happy with a lot of action, bad or not, and a great number of our players and coaches wetting the bed, you might actually believe it. Couldn't watch live, and I see no reason to check the rerun.
 

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Ties suck.

Ties when your defense played abysmal…suck less
Love threw for 334 yards and 3 TDS and had a QB rating of 118, Jacobs racked up 157 yards of total offense including 86 on the ground, Wilson ran for 45 yards plus 37 in the air for a total of 82, and Doubs, Golden, and Kraft each came within 2-4 yards of 60. Our playmakers did their job; they made plays. Over and over and over again, all night long, and they put up damned near 500 yards. They answered the bell.

But no matter how well they played, they were simply unable to get back all the points the defense gave up, or make up for the ****** play of the special teams. If ST had done their job, we win this in regulation. I'm not sure how much more you can ask of an offense than 489 total yards, 325 passing, 164 rushing, 37 points in regulation, and 6.1 yards per play.

Except, of course, to maybe not take so many stupid penalties. But I do believe getting Belton, Banks, and Tom back will fix a lot of that. With all these practice squad bodies, the line is not consistently working as a single entity composed of 5 interconnected parts, like a good O-line should do

But aside from that, the offense did their job just keeping us in the game. The loss is almost all on the D, the special teams, and (frankly), once again, the uninspired and vanilla coaching - playing not to lose whenever the pressure is on. The thing that occurs to me over and over when the game is on the line is that Lafleur is coaching scared.

The designated assistant head coach almost always does this. I think the first thing I'd do if nothing else is remove that designation from Rich and tell him solely focus on ST, cuz that **** gotta change. He's been that since March of 2023....a year and few days after we hired him in Feb of 2022.
I completely agree, but Lafleur tends to be too loyal to his staff - a good head coach needs to be a **** sometimes and put the team's best interests ahead of friendship. One more way in which he's too timid, IMO.


NOW if it's a thing where MLF actually designs everything and perhaps even at times does the calling (scripted series at start or out of breaks/halftime/timeouts and such) I could see this work.
I was thinking the same thing this morning. I don't want to lose his offensive mind, but I think he's a guy who's not very good at multitasking in a rapidly changing situation and/or under presssure, and in order to be effective in his most important role (head coach), he needs to eliminate and delegate some of the other tasks he has taken on.

Edited to correct a rogue stat.
 
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tynimiller

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ESPN has him with a passer rating of 118.1 (with a QBR of 58.0). Still quite good. Although Prescott's rating was a touch better (124.9 and 94.4). Prescott was under less pressure though.

Yea most stat sites reference his rate settled in at 118.1

One thing to note, Love right now as an incredible QBR of 78.2 - good for 8th in the league.
His season Rate is 113.0 - good for being tied with Goff for second behind only Lamar.
 

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ESPN has him with a passer rating of 118.1 (with a QBR of 58.0). Still quite good. Although Prescott's rating was a touch better (124.9 and 94.4). Prescott was under less pressure though.
Ah, damn it, you're right. I was working with 2 different sets of stats from various points in the game, and I neglected to update the calculator before the final drive I think.

Thank you for catching that. I hate being wrong. Embarassing. But I appreciate you correcting me.
 

tynimiller

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Wondering what you think the job of the HC is. If it's regular season w/L record, pretty hard to argue he isn't good. If it's making sure the three phases are operating to the best of their ability, it sure looks like he's missing the boat.

To put your team in a position weekly to win and to be post-season participants minimum on the regular (barring resets or roster rebuilds) is what I have heard numerous inside organizations say is what every HC expectations must be and I concur. If a HC cannot make the post-season for three years (barring insane injuries) it is time for change. Could be GM, HC or other massive staff changes.

But only ignorance demands perfection or overlooks the fact paid professionals are on the field and coaching the players for the opposition as well....it is HARD to win in this league.
 

tynimiller

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Sure, you can say it. In fact, if you're happy with a lot of action, bad or not, and a great number of our players and coaches wetting the bed, you might actually believe it. Couldn't watch live, and I see no reason to check the rerun.

Making declarations like you are and not watching it live, refusing to rewatch it nor watching the All22 back.....I'm sorry how do you not see this as a massive issue for credibility?
 

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One thing to note, Love right now as an incredible QBR of 78.2 - good for 8th in the league.
His season Rate is 113.0 - good for being tied with Goff for second behind only Lamar.
I don't usually pay attention to QBR, but ESPN has him listed as 63.5 for the year, which is 12th in the league.
I just included it in my post because I thought the contrast with Prescott's was interesting.
A big offensive game like yesterday's can really give your stats a jolt though.
 

tynimiller

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I don't usually pay attention to QBR, but ESPN has him listed as 63.5 for the year, which is 12th in the league.
I just included it in my post because I thought the contrast with Prescott's was interesting.
A big offensive game like yesterday's can really give your stats a jolt though.

Let me double check - I will admit I've had so many issues with ESPN accuracy I typically usually cite Pro Football Reference which has the 78.2

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Be curious to see what ESPN does and if different formula than Pro Football Reference. The odd thing is their ratings match identically.....

Really odd.

Discovered why: ESPN does in fact use different calculation. Whether true or not this is what I found:

ESPN's Total QBR is a complex, proprietary formula designed to evaluate a quarterback's complete performance, including passes, runs, penalties, and fumbles. It attempts to credit the quarterback for their contribution on a play-by-play basis using a metric called Expected Points Added (EPA).
  • Contextualized plays: Not all yards are treated equally. A 10-yard pass on 3rd-and-2 is valued higher than a 10-yard pass on 3rd-and-14, as the former is a successful play that keeps the drive going.
  • Non-passing plays: A quarterback's rushing performance, including designed runs and scrambles, is factored into the rating.
  • Adjustments: The formula adjusts for the strength of the opponent's defense, the game situation (e.g., garbage time is weighted less), and the difficulty of the throw, such as pressure in the pocket.
  • Credit allocation: For each play, QBR attempts to divide the credit for a successful play between the quarterback and their teammates. For example, a quarterback gets less credit for a short screen pass that the receiver turns into a long gain.
  • Scale: QBR is presented on a 0–100 scale, with 50 being an average performance.
Pro Football Reference's QB Rating displays the official NFL Passer Rating, a much simpler metric based on a publicly known formula that only uses passing statistics.
  • Basic components: The formula calculates four separate components: completion percentage, yards per attempt, touchdown percentage, and interception percentage.
  • Equal weight: The NFL Passer Rating treats all passing yards, touchdowns, and interceptions with equal weight, regardless of the situation in the game.
  • No other contributions: The formula does not account for quarterback rushing, fumbles, sacks, or penalties.
  • Scale: The official NFL formula operates on a scale from 0 to 158.3, with 158.3 being a perfect rating.
 

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Making declarations like you are and not watching it live, refusing to rewatch it nor watching the All22 back.....I'm sorry how do you not see this as a massive issue for credibility?
I can read. If you can point out which parts of my analysis are wrong, it might be worth the effort. The forums and play-by-play make it look like i would be really unpleasant to watch.
 

tynimiller

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I can read. If you can point out which parts of my analysis are wrong, it might be worth the effort. The forums and play-by-play make it look like i would be really unpleasant to watch.

LOL not on entirely. Only when they had the ball.
 

milani

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Sure, you can say it. In fact, if you're happy with a lot of action, bad or not, and a great number of our players and coaches wetting the bed, you might actually believe it. Couldn't watch live, and I see no reason to check the rerun.
Neither team, of course, was satisfied. But Dallas may be slightly more disappointed. They were at our 4 yard line in OT with no time restraints and could not punch it in after going up and down the field with no trouble since the blocked PAT. We not only were limited by the clock but we had to overcome a 4th and 6 to stay alive.
 

pacmaniac

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Let me double check - I will admit I've had so many issues with ESPN accuracy I typically usually cite Pro Football Reference which has the 78.2

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Be curious to see what ESPN does and if different formula than Pro Football Reference. The odd thing is their ratings match identically.....
The "Rate" that you see on Pro Football Reference is the traditional QB Rating - everyone knows the formula for that. The "QBR" that you see is just copied from ESPN. Nobody knows the formula except for ESPN.
 

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