Packers and Mason Crosby agree to 4 year deal.

[Pokerbrat2000]

I always like to say in regards to contracts and the cap, "In TT and Ball I trust", but this one is somewhat of a head scratcher contract. As someone who wanted Mason back, I shouldn't be *****ing, but I really would like to hear TT's explanation of the high $$ amounts and even more, why the contract was structured in the way that it was. I really am hoping that I like Mason and what he can do for the Packers.....for the next 3-4 years.

If nothing else, other players should be looking at this contract and Crosby's agents phone is going to be ringing off the hook!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I could possibly see a release/restructure after 2 seasons unless he's kicking near 90%.

I can't see taking a $5.25M hit for him in 2018.

I would hate to see a kicker accounting for $2.5 million in dead money. Even restructuring the contract would most likely not result in a significant decrease of the cap hit in 2018 and '19.

 

[adambr2]

I would hate to see a kicker accounting for $2.5 million in dead money. Even restructuring the contract would most likely not result in a significant decrease of the cap hit in 2018 and '19.

I can't justify this deal in a vacuum, so I'm trying this way. Maybe Thompson honestly believes in sending a consistent message to the other 52 that if you come here, stay out of trouble, and work hard to do your job to the best of your abilities, you're going to be rewarded for it, whether it's an overpay or not. Maybe he honestly feels that resonating that message consistently is worth more than a few million in cap space.

I still don't like it, but that's about the only way I can look at it and make sense of it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I can't justify this deal in a vacuum, so I'm trying this way. Maybe Thompson honestly believes in sending a consistent message to the other 52 that if you come here, stay out of trouble, and work hard to do your job to the best of your abilities, you're going to be rewarded for it, whether it's an overpay or not. Maybe he honestly feels that resonating that message consistently is worth more than a few million in cap space.

I still don't like it, but that's about the only way I can look at it and make sense of it.

It's possible Thompson looks at it this way but IMO that would be a terrible way to manage a roster. NFL teams have to let players not performing up to par compared to others around the league walk away, even if those guys do their job to the best of their abilities. That's especially true if you have to overpay to keep them around.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I can't justify this deal in a vacuum, so I'm trying this way. Maybe Thompson honestly believes in sending a consistent message to the other 52 that if you come here, stay out of trouble, and work hard to do your job to the best of your abilities, you're going to be rewarded for it, whether it's an overpay or not. Maybe he honestly feels that resonating that message consistently is worth more than a few million in cap space.

I still don't like it, but that's about the only way I can look at it and make sense of it.

If this was TT's strategy here, at least he did it with one of the lower pay grade starting positions. Goode and Masthay are probably out, so next position up benefited? Oh wait.....Kuhn is still unsigned.....

 

[El Guapo]

I was working from home today so threw on a few football games. I had to dig up this thread after seeing Crosby lay out to force a potential game-altering fumble. Almost worth the contract right there:

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[Pokerbrat2000]

I was working from home today so threw on a few football games. I had to dig up this thread after seeing Crosby lay out to force a potential game-altering fumble. Almost worth the contract right there:

Might have been a Million dollar tackle, but I think this clip was still ringing in Ball and TT's heads when they gave him the big contract.

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[Pokerbrat2000]

No clue where to post this, but since it happen to roll up after the Crosby video.....this seems like a good spot.

A fun video to watch "Pick Me"

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[adambr2]

I don't think I've ever known a Packer that people seemed so compelled to like that you could actually break down statistically why they really aren't very good and people just kind of say, 'Well, stats be damned, I say he's good.'

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't think I've ever known a Packer that people seemed so compelled to like that you could actually break down statistically why they really aren't very good and people just kind of say, 'Well, stats be damned, I say he's good.'

Kind of like John Kuhn? Any non Packer fan, who probably didn't know who John Kuhn was, would look at his Stats and say "and you pay this guy?" But like Crosby, Kuhn has been a Packer long enough that he has become such a familiar name to Packer fans and for some that can trumps stats.

 

[adambr2]

Kind of like John Kuhn? Any non Packer fan, who probably didn't know who John Kuhn was, would look at his Stats and say "and you pay this guy?" But like Crosby, Kuhn has been a Packer long enough that he has become such a familiar name to Packer fans and for some that can trumps stats.

Sort of, but at least with Kuhn there's obviously a big part of his job doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

A kicker's job...is pretty cut and dry. Unless anyone is really going to try to make the case that Mason stripping Cordarelle Patterson is worth $16M, there's not much of a kicker's value that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Sort of, but at least with Kuhn there's obviously a big part of his job doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

A kicker's job...is pretty cut and dry. Unless anyone is really going to try to make the case that Mason stripping Cordarelle Patterson is worth $16M, there's not much of a kicker's value that doesn't show up in the stat sheet.

Agreed. When it comes to Crosby, one would think if TT was looking at pure stats and comparable salaries for similar stats, he overpaid. Which leads me to think he paid extra for other more intangible things: familiarity, confidence level, loyalty reward, locker room presence, etc. Whether that was the case or it was a correct or incorrect decision, we may never know on the first part and have varying opinions concerning the second part.

 

[Packers907]

Kind of like John Kuhn? Any non Packer fan, who probably didn't know who John Kuhn was, would look at his Stats and say "and you pay this guy?" But like Crosby, Kuhn has been a Packer long enough that he has become such a familiar name to Packer fans and for some that can trumps stats.

I have to agree. Packer fans are kind of skidish when it comes to change, and Crosby has become another guy that who's name is synonomous with the green and gold. When he was quoted as saying "I can't imagine playing anywhere else," granted he's now getting paid really good money to say that but in the same way it fits. Kickers are another skilled position that have a definite love/hate relationship when it comes to fans and even through a bad 2012 season he's come back and is 85.7%. Don't know if its worth THAT big of a raise but it beats the alternative of bringing in a rookie.

 

[tynimiller]

Maybe TT just looked at the wrong position salary averages when offering Mason's....

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Kickers are another skilled position that have a definite love/hate relationship when it comes to fans and even through a bad 2012 season he's come back and is 85.7%. Don't know if its worth THAT big of a raise but it beats the alternative of bringing in a rookie.

No, him making 85.7% of his field goals over the last three seasons doesn't beat the alternative of bringing in a rookie. There's a ton of evidence to be found in this thread proving the opposite.

 

[Shawnsta3]

No, him making 85.7% of his field goals over the last three seasons doesn't beat the alternative of bringing in a rookie. There's a ton of evidence to be found in this thread proving the opposite.

Stats never lie, but they can mislead. For instance..do these stats take into account cold weather kicking? What about crunch time kicking? Playoff performance? Onside, directional kick ability?

I feel these factors would all benefit Mason pretty well. I've seen bad kicking in the NFL, and Mason surely isn't it. Dave Rayner anybody? Overpaid? Possibly. Time will tell. Sam Shields was overpaid when he signed his contract as well, and I don't see us wishing to take that back.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

TT doesn't seem averse to paying extra for a known quantity for sure. I liken it to paying a bit more for a beer you like at your favorite local pub. You know its going to be served at the right temperature, served in a clean glass, delivered with a friendly smile and most likely won't leave a bitter after taste. All the while supporting a business that is well respected and trusted in the neighborhood.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Stats never lie, but they can mislead. For instance..do these stats take into account cold weather kicking? What about crunch time kicking? Playoff performance? Onside, directional kick ability?

I've already posted in this thread that Crosby's number looking worse because of him kicking in bad weather is a myth.

Crunch time??? You mean like the potential game winner against Detroit last season???

He has been great in the playoffs but you have to realize none of his postseason field goals has come from more than 48 yards with 16 of 23 succesful ones having been kicked from less than 40 yards.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Let's move this discussion here so Poppa doesn't have to remind us of not hijacking a thread once again.

Thanks for those stats. Given that Crosby's only game tying/winning field goal misses all came from 50+ yards, along with the 1 blocked kick, that doesn't bother me a whole lot. Besides the added pressure of the game being on the line, you also have a defense that is probably coming harder as well as more focused knowing what that kick means. The highest paid kicker in the league, Justin Tucker, is 18 of 30 (60%) on FG's from 50+ yards. Not sure what Tucker's % is on 50+ with the game on the line.

Well, Tucker is 13 out of 14 (92.9%) on game tying or winning field goals within the last two minutes of regulation and overtime. His only missed kick in those clutch situations has come from 51 yards with successful ones from 61 and 52 yards as well.

No doubt Tucker is a clutch kicker while Crosby isn't.

At least I surprised you with one stat and yes, I think one definitely needs to consider length of FG's made and missed along with the distances in order to get a bigger picture then just mere percentages of made and missed.

It's true that has to be taken into consideration. Overall the Packers are ranked 16th in the league in average length of field goal attempts as well as 22nd in average length of FG made as well as sixth in average length of field goal missed since 2007.

This makes me believe that Crosby has a hard time making tough kicks but is reliable on FGs expected to be successful.

 

[El Guapo]

He has been great in the playoffs but you have to realize none of his postseason field goals has come from more than 48 yards with 16 of 23 succesful ones having been kicked from less than 40 yards.

It's worth revisiting Crosby's contract discussion. The kicks over Dallas certainly help improve his clutch kicking stats, and are heading the right direction to validate his contract. 8th best FG% in the league this season. Patriots own the top slot for paying their kicker the most, with several perennial playoff teams in and around the top 5. It seems worthy to put some money into this position.

NFL Kicker Contracts:
3rd highest contract value
5th highest guaranteed money per year

 

[SoonerPack]

I recall having a rather lengthy discussion on this forum about Mason and his worth about a year ago. Time and time again he comes through in the toughest of spots. Mason just etched his name into Packer lore with those kicks in Dallas. I couldn't be more proud of 2 and breathe easy every time he lines one up. Stud. Flat out stud.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I just remember the half decade it took for Crosby to get his NFL kicker nerves. He had the talent, and he could kick a mile, but he would also shank more than his fair share, and clutch kicks seemed to be a shot in the dark at times..... That's the learning curve you typically have to suffer through when you draft a kicker... If you want a good kicker off the open market, then it will cost more than what we paid Crosby... Drafting one at this point in Rodgers career, and with the team built to win now, was too risky... Had TT chosen to draft and develop a rookie rather than pay Crosby his 4mil. I doubt we are playing this week coming up.

 

[SoonerPack]

I just remember the half decade it took for Crosby to get his NFL kicker nerves. He had the talent, and he could kick a mile, but he would also shank more than his fair share, and clutch kicks seemed to be a shot in the dark at times..... That's the learning curve you typically have to suffer through when you draft a kicker... If you want a good kicker off the open market, then it will cost more than what we paid Crosby... Drafting one at this point in Rodgers career, and with the team built to win now, was too risky... Had TT chosen to draft and develop a rookie rather than pay Crosby his 4mil. I doubt we are playing this week coming up.

Interesting point. Making those 2 50+ yarders was as clutch as it gets. Period. Kudos to TT for hanging with him through the difficult times when a lot of people would've cut bait.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's worth revisiting Crosby's contract discussion. The kicks over Dallas certainly help improve his clutch kicking stats, and are heading the right direction to validate his contract. 8th best FG% in the league this season. Patriots own the top slot for paying their kicker the most, with several perennial playoff teams in and around the top 5. It seems worthy to put some money into this position.

NFL Kicker Contracts:
3rd highest contract value
5th highest guaranteed money per year

There´s no doubt Crosby has had a successful season in 2016 and his two clutch kicks at Dallas were an elite performance but I still believe the Packers overpaid to keep him in Green Bay.

 

[Dirty Sanchez]

TT doesn't seem averse to paying extra for a known quantity for sure. I liken it to paying a bit more for a beer you like at your favorite local pub. You know its going to be served at the right temperature, served in a clean glass, delivered with a friendly smile and most likely won't leave a bitter after taste. All the while supporting a business that is well respected and trusted in the neighborhood.

..........and a hot waitress! You forgot the hot waitress!