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Thirteen Below

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Hershel Walker draft picks?
I'm guessing he means the picks the Cowboys straight-up stole from the Vikings in The Great Trade Robbery back in 89. Dallas realized they were years away from contending unless they made some sort of major move, so Jerry Jones and Jimmy J cooked up a scheme to hustle Minnesota.

They announced that Walker was available, and several teams started bidding on him. Eventually, Cleveland offered a starter, 2 1sts, and 3 2nds, which was a pretty darned good offer. They were going to close the deal, but then Johnson realized they had not yet heard from the dumbest GM in the league, so he called Mike Lynn and told him they were going to pull the trigger with Cleveland unless Minnesota beat their offer by 6:30 PM. He said the package needed to include some combination of players, picks, provisionals, and conditionals.

Lynn was convinced Minnesota was just one star running back from a dynasty, and he was so desperate he walked right out into the middle of the highway and got run over flat. He offered a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 6th, plus 5 average players - in return for Walker, plus 2 3rds and a 10th coming back. On the face of it, pretty comparable to the Cleveland offer, but somewhat better. On the face of it.

The kicker was, every one of those 5 Vikings had a condition attached - if they didn't finish the season on the Cowboys roster, another draft pick would kick back to Dallas. A total of 2 more 1sts, 2 more 2nds, and a 3rd. And Dallas never had any intention of keeping those players; their whole objective was those provisional draft picks.

When Minnesota realized what was really happening a few months later, they tried to rework the deal, and Dallas outsmarted them on that one, too. Long story short, Johnson used some of the picks but dealt most of them away for multiple mid-round picks, which they used to build their 90s dynasty.

Depending on how you do the calculations on the multiple trades, Dallas ended up getting anywhere from 16-18 draft picks out of the deal.

At end of the 1995 season, Dallas (reigning Super Bowl champs) had:

RB Emmit Smith
DT Russell Maryland
CB Clayton Holmes
CB Kevin SMith
S Darren Woodson

3 Super Bowl wins

And Minnesota (8-8, last in the Central) had:

WR Jake Reed.

1 new general manager

And Herschel Walker was a Philadelphia Eagle


Williams has a way to go before he is known one way or the other. Did listen to former GM Lombardi on NFLN saying he wasn't such a sure thing as most were saying. Said that he had a few games where he got rattled and fell apart.
I had to laugh during the draft, when looking at highlight reels of 2 of our defensive backs - Bullard and Oladapo, I think - and each of them had a highlight of flustering the hell out of Williams, and smacking him like a bug. One of them forced a fumble, if I recall correctly. The kid looked totally clueless once the pocket broke down. Watching just his highlight reels, you don't see plays like that for some reason.

I know it's early, and he has a lot of ability. And he'll probably be at least a pretty good quarterback. But, this "generational talent", the "next Andrew Luck"? I'm not seeing it yet. And especially not given the Bear's track record.
 

Heyjoe4

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Im pretty sure Bears fans would be very happy if they got another Brett Favre. I know I would be.
Yeah Favre threw a lot of pics but he threw a LOT of TDs.
I would be if we had another Holmgren to go with him.
I would say another Reggie White wouldn't hurt either, but there's only one Reggie White.
Good point - Reggie White was arguably the main reason behind the Packers' return to greatnesss in the 90s, along with Holmgren, Wolf and Favre.

But when White picked GB in FA, it sent a message to players that good things were happening in Green Bay, WI. I don't recall exactly why White picked the Packers, he could have gone anywhere. But it was a huge thing and huge for the franchise. I'm not minimizing the contributions of others, especially Ron Wolf, but White seemed to light the fuse.
 

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I'm guessing he means the picks the Cowboys straight-up stole from the Vikings in The Great Trade Robbery back in 89. Dallas realized they were years away from contending unless they made some sort of major move, so Jerry Jones and Jimmy J cooked up a scheme to hustle Minnesota.

They announced that Walker was available, and several teams started bidding on him. Eventually, Cleveland offered a starter, 2 1sts, and 3 2nds, which was a pretty darned good offer. They were going to close the deal, but then Johnson realized they had not yet heard from the dumbest GM in the league, so he called Mike Lynn and told him they were going to pull the trigger with Cleveland unless Minnesota beat their offer by 6:30 PM. He said the package needed to include some combination of players, picks, provisionals, and conditionals.

Lynn was convinced Minnesota was just one star running back from a dynasty, and he was so desperate he walked right out into the middle of the highway and got run over flat. He offered a 1st, a 2nd, a 3rd, and a 6th, plus 5 average players - in return for Walker, plus 2 3rds and a 10th coming back. On the face of it, pretty comparable to the Cleveland offer, but somewhat better. On the face of it.

The kicker was, every one of those 5 Vikings had a condition attached - if they didn't finish the season on the Cowboys roster, another draft pick would kick back to Dallas. A total of 2 more 1sts, 2 more 2nds, and a 3rd. And Dallas never had any intention of keeping those players; their whole objective was those provisional draft picks.

When Minnesota realized what was really happening a few months later, they tried to rework the deal, and Dallas outsmarted them on that one, too. Long story short, Johnson used some of the picks but dealt most of them away for multiple mid-round picks, which they used to build their 90s dynasty.

Depending on how you do the calculations on the multiple trades, Dallas ended up getting anywhere from 16-18 draft picks out of the deal.

At end of the 1995 season, Dallas (reigning Super Bowl champs) had:

RB Emmit Smith
DT Russell Maryland
CB Clayton Holmes
CB Kevin SMith
S Darren Woodson

3 Super Bowl wins

And Minnesota (8-8, last in the Central) had:

WR Jake Reed.

1 new general manager

And Herschel Walker was a Philadelphia Eagle



I had to laugh during the draft, when looking at highlight reels of 2 of our defensive backs - Bullard and Oladapo, I think - and each of them had a highlight of flustering the hell out of Williams, and smacking him like a bug. One of them forced a fumble, if I recall correctly. The kid looked totally clueless once the pocket broke down. Watching just his highlight reels, you don't see plays like that for some reason.

I know it's early, and he has a lot of ability. And he'll probably be at least a pretty good quarterback. But, this "generational talent", the "next Andrew Luck"? I'm not seeing it yet. And especially not given the Bear's track record.
About the best total analysis of the trade between Dallas and Minnesota I've ever seen. I remember, when it happened, everyone was laughing about it.

In fact, I thought it was a joke!
 

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About the best total analysis of the trade between Dallas and Minnesota I've ever seen. I remember, when it happened, everyone was laughing about it.

In fact, I thought it was a joke!
That's how I felt about Ditka trading all of his draft picks to get Ricky Williams. Of course, the Minnesota/Dallas trade was a much worse fleecing.
 

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I don't recall exactly why White picked the Packers, he could have gone anywhere. But it was a huge thing and huge for the franchise. I'm not minimizing the contributions of others, especially Ron Wolf, but White seemed to light the fuse.
The 30-for-30 on Reggie White had his son stating that Green Bay fit with Reggie's identity better. Cleveland was lavishing the Whites with fancy dinners and mink coats. Green Bay took him to Sizzler (or something similar) and just sat down and talked football. Then toss in the old quote from Holmgren where he left a message on Reggie's answering machine saying, "Reggie, this is God. Come to Green Bay."

Okay - I got most of the story right except it was Red Lobster, not Sizzler. Lots more info in this article that is worth reading. White was impressed with Holmgren and Ray Rhodes as coaches. He also was intrigued with the young QB named Brett Favre:
 

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Anyway, the cowboys were a very bad team. Then they did very well on the draft picks they got. And that was why Aikman struggled early. Aikman did not have to be a Marino type QB with that team. Still, he threw the ball great and is in the Hall of Fame.
 

Thirteen Below

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About the best total analysis of the trade between Dallas and Minnesota I've ever seen. I remember, when it happened, everyone was laughing about it.

In fact, I thought it was a joke!
Thanks....

I was living in the Twin Cities at the time, and I initially went back and forth between thinking "oh my god, Mike Lynn has lost his mind", and "oh-oh.... the Vikings may have actually done something right here...". Vikings fans were practically delirious over it; they wanted to just save time and have the Super Bowl parade right then in mid-October while the weather was still warm.

And then, his first game (against the Packers, of course) he ripped off 148 yards from scrimmage and 40 more return yards, at one point actually outrunning one of his shoes - his shoe couldn't keep up with him; he ran right out of it.

At which point, I thought "Oh, lord here we go." Figured it might be a rough 4 or 5 years.

But then, the weirdness started...

He soon began referring to himself in the 3rd person - "Herschel is just happy to be in Minnesota".... "Herschel is proud to be a Viking.... "

Then, the bizarre boasting about his workout programs - "Herschel does 3000 situps every day... " "Herschel eats only one meal a day, a salad every night with some bread... " "Herschel does 2000 pushups every day... " "Herschel fasts for 4 days at a time, drinking only water with lemon juice.... " "Herschel only sleeps 4 hours a night... " "Herschel runs 8 miles a day... "

And at that point, I started to think "Herschel appears to be some sort of a nutcase."

This was an opinion that quickly became widely shared by many Minnesota fans and sportswriters; he never broke 100 yards again that year, and only got 50 or more 2 or 3 times. He just wasn't much of a factor, but after every game he'd be spouting off to the press about Herschel - always in the 3rd person. "Herschel is disappointed in his effort today", "Herschel is just proud to have played even a small part in today's win", "Herschel is going to go home now and drink some lemon juice", etc.

They finished strong that first year, but it sure wasn't because of Herschel, and got smoked by the Niners in their first playoff game. Herschel went 9 for 29 yards; the same rushing yards as Minnesota's 3rd string quarterback. They then went 6-10 and 8-8 (partly because they had no 1st or 2nd pound picks) before finally letting him go in free agency in 92 - the same year that Dallas won the first of their 3 Super Bowls in the 90s, cashing in on the Walker draft picks.
 

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Thanks....

I was living in the Twin Cities at the time, and I initially went back and forth between thinking "oh my god, Mike Lynn has lost his mind", and "oh-oh.... the Vikings may have actually done something right here...". Vikings fans were practically delirious over it; they wanted to just save time and have the Super Bowl parade right then in mid-October while the weather was still warm.

And then, his first game (against the Packers, of course) he ripped off 148 yards from scrimmage and 40 more return yards, at one point actually outrunning one of his shoes - his shoe couldn't keep up with him; he ran right out of it.

At which point, I thought "Oh, lord here we go." Figured it might be a rough 4 or 5 years.

But then, the weirdness started...

He soon began referring to himself in the 3rd person - "Herschel is just happy to be in Minnesota".... "Herschel is proud to be a Viking.... "

Then, the bizarre boasting about his workout programs - "Herschel does 3000 situps every day... " "Herschel eats only one meal a day, a salad every night with some bread... " "Herschel does 2000 pushups every day... " "Herschel fasts for 4 days at a time, drinking only water with lemon juice.... " "Herschel only sleeps 4 hours a night... " "Herschel runs 8 miles a day... "

And at that point, I started to think "Herschel appears to be some sort of a nutcase."

This was an opinion that quickly became widely shared by many Minnesota fans and sportswriters; he never broke 100 yards again that year, and only got 50 or more 2 or 3 times. He just wasn't much of a factor, but after every game he'd be spouting off to the press about Herschel - always in the 3rd person. "Herschel is disappointed in his effort today", "Herschel is just proud to have played even a small part in today's win", "Herschel is going to go home now and drink some lemon juice", etc.

They finished strong that first year, but it sure wasn't because of Herschel, and got smoked by the Niners in their first playoff game. Herschel went 9 for 29 yards; the same rushing yards as Minnesota's 3rd string quarterback. They then went 6-10 and 8-8 (partly because they had no 1st or 2nd pound picks) before finally letting him go in free agency in 92 - the same year that Dallas won the first of their 3 Super Bowls in the 90s, cashing in on the Walker draft picks.
Worst trade in Packers'history was for a washed-up John Hadl. Two firsts, two seconds and a third. Awful, beyond awful.
 

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Thanks....

I was living in the Twin Cities at the time, and I initially went back and forth between thinking "oh my god, Mike Lynn has lost his mind", and "oh-oh.... the Vikings may have actually done something right here...". Vikings fans were practically delirious over it; they wanted to just save time and have the Super Bowl parade right then in mid-October while the weather was still warm.

And then, his first game (against the Packers, of course) he ripped off 148 yards from scrimmage and 40 more return yards, at one point actually outrunning one of his shoes - his shoe couldn't keep up with him; he ran right out of it.

At which point, I thought "Oh, lord here we go." Figured it might be a rough 4 or 5 years.

But then, the weirdness started...

He soon began referring to himself in the 3rd person - "Herschel is just happy to be in Minnesota".... "Herschel is proud to be a Viking.... "

Then, the bizarre boasting about his workout programs - "Herschel does 3000 situps every day... " "Herschel eats only one meal a day, a salad every night with some bread... " "Herschel does 2000 pushups every day... " "Herschel fasts for 4 days at a time, drinking only water with lemon juice.... " "Herschel only sleeps 4 hours a night... " "Herschel runs 8 miles a day... "

And at that point, I started to think "Herschel appears to be some sort of a nutcase."

This was an opinion that quickly became widely shared by many Minnesota fans and sportswriters; he never broke 100 yards again that year, and only got 50 or more 2 or 3 times. He just wasn't much of a factor, but after every game he'd be spouting off to the press about Herschel - always in the 3rd person. "Herschel is disappointed in his effort today", "Herschel is just proud to have played even a small part in today's win", "Herschel is going to go home now and drink some lemon juice", etc.

They finished strong that first year, but it sure wasn't because of Herschel, and got smoked by the Niners in their first playoff game. Herschel went 9 for 29 yards; the same rushing yards as Minnesota's 3rd string quarterback. They then went 6-10 and 8-8 (partly because they had no 1st or 2nd pound picks) before finally letting him go in free agency in 92 - the same year that Dallas won the first of their 3 Super Bowls in the 90s, cashing in on the Walker draft picks.
I remember Don Riley, in the St. Paul Pioneer Press saying; :" Don Riley thinks Herschel Walker is having an out of body experience. He needs to see a psychiatrist. Both of them!"

I laughed so hard. The mail that went into him for a couple of weeks went from them thinking the guy was speaking the word of God to him being a turncoat who should find another line of work. For a couple of weeks, attacking the Packers took second fiddle, while he played off the comments by Vikings fans.
 

Voyageur

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Worst trade in Packers'history was for a washed-up John Hadl. Two firsts, two seconds and a third. Awful, beyond awful.
I kept thinking there was a mistake in that one. I couldn't believe it happened. Hadl was not going to be the savior of the Packers. They had far worse problems than just a lousy QB, but he thought it was going to save his job. Dan Devine.
 

Thirteen Below

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I remember Don Riley, in the St. Paul Pioneer Press saying; :" Don Riley thinks Herschel Walker is having an out of body experience. He needs to see a psychiatrist. Both of them!"

I laughed so hard. The mail that went into him for a couple of weeks went from them thinking the guy was speaking the word of God to him being a turncoat who should find another line of work. For a couple of weeks, attacking the Packers took second fiddle, while he played off the comments by Vikings fans.
I don't remember that, but I sure remember Patrick Reusse and Joe Soucheray of the ****** (P e e P e e) just shredding Herschel every single week - ridiculing everything about him, to the point where the poor guy was probably crossing the street to avoid walking past a Pioneer Press newspaper box and see his name on the paper. Reusse especially; Soucheray was pretty tough on the guy too, but he'd usually just throw a few punches and move on to something else; Reusse was merciless and relentless.

One of the best things about being a Packer fan in Minneapolis those days was that the local columnists insulted the Vikings much more effectively, accurately, and downright brutally than I ever could. All I had to do was sit back and read it, and nod my head.
 

Thirteen Below

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I was actually at this game.
No kidding??? Wow. How did it feel in the stadium? Like a bad omen, a sign of things to come? I was watching on TV, so my opinion was influenced by the Vikings announcers screaming in ecstasy every time he touched the football.
 

Voyageur

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I don't remember that, but I sure remember Patrick Reusse and Joe Soucheray of the ****** (P e e P e e) just shredding Herschel every single week - ridiculing everything about him, to the point where the poor guy was probably crossing the street to avoid walking past a Pioneer Press newspaper box and see his name on the paper. Reusse especially; Soucheray was pretty tough on the guy too, but he'd usually just throw a few punches and move on to something else; Reusse was merciless and relentless.

One of the best things about being a Packer fan in Minneapolis those days was that the local columnists insulted the Vikings much more effectively, accurately, and downright brutally than I ever could. All I had to do was sit back and read it, and nod my head.
They had their sports reporters playing both sides. They wanted to keep those subscriptions in Wisconsin rolling, and they had many thousands of them. The only Western Wisconsin daily paper that was available was the Eau Claire Leader, and the Superior Evening Telegram. The Pioneer Press was so much larger, and had so much more info.
 

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I don't think the Vikings had one capacity game at home that year. The only two home games that drew 60,000 fans was Green Bay and Chicago. Of course that's because the fans from those two clubs filled the seats, and even then, they weren't full.

I remember how TCF and a couple of other banks would buy up the tickets so they didn't have blackouts. We always got our Packer day tickets over there through TCF. I was there the day Herschel put up those numbers, and I thought their fans were out of their heads to be honest. Herschel never gained 1,000 yards until he was traded to Philadelphia a few years later. The guy was so self-centered he had to eat with a mirror across the table from him so he could talk to himself.
 

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Have confirmed that Monk continues to be one of the standouts in the middle...very early, and shorts but promising.

Many know one of my three trade projections GB may do involves making Monk or Tom the center this year and trading Josh Myers for either a player of pick now rather than waiting for a compensatory pick in 2026 draft....part of this is the prediction for Green Bay in 2025 is to not have a compensatory pick or at most maybe a 7th. Gute loves having picks to free up flexibility. Besides getting more now or sooner into the years of young WR and TE weapons not needing contracts and/or tough decisions just yet shoves more into the window which is open.

Would Myers get you a Day2 pick.....no.....unless you send a 4th or 5th back with him, but I do strongly think a team who needs a decent starter in the middle due to issues along their front Myers could easily be an attractive piece enough to send GB a 4th for say Myers and a 6th or 7th back.


For those curious one of my other trade thoughts GB "could do" is move Doubs or Watson a year earlier for a bigger return than a year late...both of them would give a team two years with their rookie contracts and not just a potential one year lease type if you wait till after this season. FTR neither of these guys I want or would like to see leaving GB...but I get it given the immense talent behind them and the TEs we have. Fact is while nice having 5 or 6 deep at WR that we like is just too many hands and heads to feed IMO...if you can turn Doubs or Watson into a solid player or a Top 70 pick back "NOW" in 2025 the logic exists behind it.
 

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Check that, I was at his LAST game as a Cowboy at Lambeau, not his FIRST game as a Viqueen. Sorry for the confusion!!!
Yeah! That game where he got the 148 yards was at The Hump. I thought the fans were going to have ******* over him doing that well against the Packers. We just sat there, watched the game, and took note on just how stupid their fans actually were. They got the premiere narcissist of football, and figured it would be a great marriage. The divorce left a lot of fans burning jerseys. I think the score was something like 27-14? Can't remember exactly. Tommy Kramer looked decent against the Packers. If I recall, we had Majik throwing to the Keystone Kops wearing boxing gloves.
 
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Have confirmed that Monk continues to be one of the standouts in the middle...very early, and shorts but promising.

Many know one of my three trade projections GB may do involves making Monk or Tom the center this year and trading Josh Myers for either a player of pick now rather than waiting for a compensatory pick in 2026 draft....part of this is the prediction for Green Bay in 2025 is to not have a compensatory pick or at most maybe a 7th. Gute loves having picks to free up flexibility. Besides getting more now or sooner into the years of young WR and TE weapons not needing contracts and/or tough decisions just yet shoves more into the window which is open.

Would Myers get you a Day2 pick.....no.....unless you send a 4th or 5th back with him, but I do strongly think a team who needs a decent starter in the middle due to issues along their front Myers could easily be an attractive piece enough to send GB a 4th for say Myers and a 6th or 7th back.


For those curious one of my other trade thoughts GB "could do" is move Doubs or Watson a year earlier for a bigger return than a year late...both of them would give a team two years with their rookie contracts and not just a potential one year lease type if you wait till after this season. FTR neither of these guys I want or would like to see leaving GB...but I get it given the immense talent behind them and the TEs we have. Fact is while nice having 5 or 6 deep at WR that we like is just too many hands and heads to feed IMO...if you can turn Doubs or Watson into a solid player or a Top 70 pick back "NOW" in 2025 the logic exists behind it.
I see the logic behind it. That said I like the idea of getting another season out of Myers on the cheap. Plus as you said we likely get a future 5th or 6th in return which isn’t too bad a compensatory award.
 

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I just want to have the best O line possible. Whether or not Myers starts; he would still be important as a back up. We have to go for it this year. Not worry about getting a bunch of late round picks. Especially for someone who may have to step in. Just can't see doing trades. Let the players compete and see what we end up with on the team.
 

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I see the logic behind it. That said I like the idea of getting another season out of Myers on the cheap. Plus as you said we likely get a future 5th or 6th in return which isn’t too bad a compensatory award.

I don’t think he does, only reason is Gute like this year is going to be swinging as much as he can I suspect.

The swing of trading Myers now is it pays dividends immediately or sooner (next draft) vs waiting not one draft but two.

Between Tom, Jenkins, Monk and now Rhyan getting center snaps too I suspect we’d be able to absorb his departure.
 

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I don’t think he does, only reason is Gute like this year is going to be swinging as much as he can I suspect.

The swing of trading Myers now is it pays dividends immediately or sooner (next draft) vs waiting not one draft but two.

Between Tom, Jenkins, Monk and now Rhyan getting center snaps too I suspect we’d be able to absorb his departure.
Agreed. There is little to no value in keeping Myers now. You list the guys who could play C, and most likely all would be better than Myers. If the Packers are a contending team, and I think they are, then the OL (and every position) should be manned by the best player possible, as obvious as that is. If Myers can't be traded (and he probably can't) time to just cut him and move on.
 

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Agreed. There is little to no value in keeping Myers now. You list the guys who could play C, and most likely all would be better than Myers. If the Packers are a contending team, and I think they are, then the OL (and every position) should be manned by the best player possible. If Myers can't be traded (and he probably can't) time to just cut him and move on.

I am a touch higher on Myers than you as I don't know if I'd say for sure all are better than him, but I don't see a drop personally and I think our best 5 that I envision never involves him at C....the only lineup I think that could potentially be the best 5 where he is in there is Walker / Jenkins / Myers / Morgan / Tom....I believe the four in there with Myers are our best 4 OL currently without question...the issue is if Rhyan or Monk or Dillard show they're fully ready to start for us then I think it would be a disservice to team construction and this window to NOT at least quietly place some calls.
 

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I am a touch higher on Myers than you as I don't know if I'd say for sure all are better than him, but I don't see a drop personally and I think our best 5 that I envision never involves him at C....the only lineup I think that could potentially be the best 5 where he is in there is Walker / Jenkins / Myers / Morgan / Tom....I believe the four in there with Myers are our best 4 OL currently without question...the issue is if Rhyan or Monk or Dillard show they're fully ready to start for us then I think it would be a disservice to team construction and this window to NOT at least quietly place some calls.
It is a pretty thin line, for now, separating all of these C candidates, including Myers. And right now, I agree on the lineup you list being the best. I'd be pretty happy with that starting OL in September. I'm assuming someone else steps up at C.

Well, that's what TC and PS games are for. Fortunately, the Packers have nothing to lose by letting this play out, and maybe something to gain.
 

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