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NFC North Preview

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by sports0230, Jul 12, 2009.

  1. sports0230

    sports0230 Cheesehead

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  2. D.Levens

    D.Levens Banned Banned

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    Seems about right to me....

    Only it will be..

    1. Vikings
    2. Bears
    3. Packers
    4. Lions.

    That is my LOCK of the week!
     
  3. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    Most talk of the NFC north has Green Bay at 3rd so I'm not surprised.
     
  4. acanofpan

    acanofpan Cheesehead

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    my list
    #1. Vikes 11-5 devision winner
    #2. Packers 10-6 wild card
    #3. Bears 7-9
    #4. Lions 3-13
     
  5. sweetvalleyhigh

    sweetvalleyhigh Cheesehead

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    Looks about right to me!
     
  6. PFJ12

    PFJ12 Cheesehead

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    1. Packers 10-6
    2. Vikes 9-7-1
    3. Bears 8-8
    4. Lions 3-12-1
    The ties are from an interception-laden contest betwixt the Vikes and Lions in which Favre out-interceptions Dante Culpepper/Matt Stafford 5-4 and no TDs are thrown while each team's kicker breaks the record for field goals made in a game.
     
  7. sweetvalleyhigh

    sweetvalleyhigh Cheesehead

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    The Vikings have a tough schedule this coming season with 17 games.
     
  8. AirGarcia

    AirGarcia Cheesehead

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    :-D

    They don't get a bye this year.

    Ummmm....the optomist in me says the boys are going to catch lighting and go 11-5. The realist in me says the best we are going to do is 9-7...That five game stretch at the end is just balls :star-wars:
     
  9. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    It' good to see so many pundits overlooking and underestimating the Packers. The tune sounds similar to the 2007 preseason wags.
    Saying the Bears are the same team that went to the Super Bowl 3 years ago plus Jay Cutler is ludicrous. Yeah, a lot of the names are the same but they're not the same team. Their defense was worse than the Packers' last season and they didn't do anything notable to improve it going in to this year.
    The Vikings look like last year's Jacksonville Jags. A playoff team in '07 many thought they could take the next step in '08 with their run defense and rushing game and a game managing qb in Garrard. They ended up falling from 11-5 to 5-11 in just one year.
    The free agency loss of Matt Birk, the looming suspensions of dt's Kevin Williams and Pat Williams, the unsettled qb situation, the coaching among other things about this club could easily put them in the half of one year's playoff teams that don't make it back the next.
    A healthier Green Bay team, with more discipline and fewer critical mistakes could well be poised for a surprise rebound similar to '07; when nobody saw them coming then.
     
  10. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Who is saying that this is the same Bears team from the Super Bowl?
    This is based on what they did last year when they finished one game behind the Vikings at 9-7 and just missed the playoffs and that was with Kyle Orton as their QB.

    So how is adding Jay Cutler, improving their O line and WR corps and having two of their best defensive players healthy again make them a worse team while the 6-10 Packers will be playing a totally new defense and they will be the team to beat?
    Saying that they will be more disciplined and make fewer critical mistakes is based on what?
    Wishes?
    With a new D in place chances are that they are going to make even more mistakes.

    You don't want to compare the current Bears team to the one in 2006 yet you want to compare the current Packers team to the one in 2007.
    You can't have it both ways..... unless you are Angelina Jolie!

    By the way.... you claim that the Bears D was worse than the Packers last year.
    Really?

    The Packers gave up an average of 334.3 yards per game.
    The Bears gave up an average of 334.7 yards per game.

    The Packers gave 380 total points.
    The Bears gave 350 total points.

    The Packers gave up an average of 23.8 points per game.
    The Bears gave up an average of 21.9 points per game.

    The Packers gave up an average of 5.3 yards per play.
    The Bears gave up an average of 4.9 yards per play.

    The Packers gave up 3,244 passing yards for a 6.5 yards per pass average.
    The Bears gave up 3,859 passing yards for a 6.6 yards per pass average.

    The Packers gave up 2,105 rushing yards for a 4.6 yards per run average.
    The Bears gave up 1,496 rushing yards for a 3.4 yards per run average.

    The Packers intercepted 22 passes.
    The Bears intercepted 22 passes.

    The Packers recovered 6 fumbles.
    The Bears recovered 10 fumbles.

    The Packers had 27 sacks.
    The Bears had 28 sacks.

    The Bears were the better defense last year.
    These are facts. Not just hopeful thinking or some comment that was thrown out on a blog somewhere and taken as gospel because it sounds like what you want to hear.
    Look this stuff up before making a statement that has nothing at all to back it up.:read:

    Saying that the Packers will have a better defense because they are changing to the 3-4 while the Bears are sticking with the same D that made them one of the top units in the NFL over the last 5 years is just wishful thinking until they prove otherwise.
    :crazy:
     
  11. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    These numbers appear very similar to me. And that's not a good thing, since we were a terrible D last year. You're better at stopping the run, but then again, we're better at stopping the pass...
    And just one thing... Improved the WR corps? With players that never caught a pass in the NFL or with a KR that was a CB in college? I'm not seeing where's the improvement...
    And you're partially right about the wishfyl thinking. Yes, they need to prove themselves. But it's not just the change of scheme. It's the proven coaches that were hired. It's the return to health of half of the defense. It's the all-americans we drafted (although that's not by any means a sure thing. Even picked so high and playing so well in college, they need to prove themselves in the NFL).
     
  12. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Yes, drafting 2 WRs who have never caught an NFL pass has to be an upgrade over what they had last year.
    It is the same as adding any other rookie to your team in an area that you need help.

    That is why the Packers drafted Raji.
    Juaquin Iglesias is an exhalant slot receiver who has great hands, can go over the middle and get you yards after the catch and should make an impact right away. Exhalant for 3rd down conversions.
    An improvement over the washed up Marty Booker.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qGtpemtA08"]YouTube - WR Juaquin Iglesias Highlights Oklahoma 2008[/ame]

    They are also going to play Earl Bennett this year and he set the SEC receiving record at Vanderbilt with Jay Cutler throwing him the ball so they know each other’s play pretty well.
    An improvement over the often-injured Brandon Lloyd.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-2yd_EPqB8"]YouTube - The Jay and Earl Show[/ame]
    Rookie Johnny Knox ran a 4.34 forty-yard dash at the Combine and he can make just about any catch.
    An improvement over Rashied Davis.
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNFsIp26RlY"]YouTube - Johnny Knox - Chicago Bears - Draft Video Profile[/ame]


    Hester is a better receiver than his numbers showed and having the weak armed Kyle Orton under throwing him the ball time after time is what killed that.
    Hester and Knox’s strength is speed and when your QB can't heave it over 20 yards you get just what the Bears had last year.
    Lots of passes to the TEs and RBs.
    They won’t have that problem with Cutler throwing the ball.

    I never said that I was happy with the Bears D last year.
    I was not.

    Middle of the Pack does nothing for me and I know that they have more talent than what they showed last year.
    I just pointed out that they were not worse than the Packers in response to the comment made by Packerlifer.
    I would also hope that the Bears D will be better than last year with a better QB who can move the chains and keep the offense on the field unlike Orton and Grossman.

    The more your team has the ball in their hands the fewer opportunities the other team has and the more your own defense rests. That makes a huge difference.
    That goes for every team and that is something that the Bears have been missing for a long time.
     
  13. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    Well those defensive stats Phil posted were pretty similiar. However I agree that the Bears have added some help at the receiver position. Iglesias could be pretty good as with Bennet, but I'm curious to see what Johnny Knox can do at a level of high competition that boy has some wheels. Still anything said about those players are just a guess as they havent seen the field yet. While Green Bay has atleast three proven receivers in Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, and a healthy James Jones (had some trouble holding on to the ball a little as a rookie). Ruvell Martin, Jordy Nelson, and Donald Lee have pretty good hands as well.
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I guess when you're at the bottom you can only go up... Doesn't mean they'll be good. You gotta agree with me that there's more chance that they won't be a great corps than that they'll be. It's no coincidence that a lot of teams passed on them more than once, right?

    It's not the same. Like I said early, any rookies can't be considered an improvement before they step on the field, but a guy taken 9th overall and another taken 26th are more likely to be great players than some guys taken on 3rd round. And not only that, there're more examples of DT and OLB rookies that made and impact than at WR. Don't have the numbers right now, but after QB, the WR position is the hardest for a rookie to make an impact. RB and OL are the easiest, if I'm not mistaken also.
     
  15. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Kinda like Johnny Jolly and Greg Jennings. :)
     
  16. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Wow, I can't read... Jennings didn't make an impact as a rookie. Of course there are exceptions. Anquan Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson... But those guys are the cream of the crop.
     
  17. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Getting caught up in where a player is drafted is a waste of time and it means nothing. It has no bearing on how they will play.
    You draft what you need and the whole "He was the 9th player taken" thing is fine for 20 year old guys who know nothing about the NFL.
    How has the Alex Smith & Aaron Rodgers picks worked out for the 49ers and Packers?

    I have seen the Bears draft Curtis Enis, Rex Grossman, Cedric Benson and Cade McNown in the first round.

    Tom Brady was a 6th round pick.
    Brandon Jacobs was the 110th player picked in 2005. Think the Giants are happy with that one?

    The draft has been full of players who were taken in the first round and were complete busts while players taken in the 2nd and 3rd and even 5th and 6th rounds became hall of famers.
    Matt Forte had the 3rd most yards from scrimmage in the entire NFL last year and he was a 2nd round pick.
    How many teams wish they had drafted him now?

    Look no farther then your own team.
    Who was the better player... Tony Mandrich (1st) or Aaron Kampmann (5th) ?
    Who was the better player... Justin Harrell (1st) or Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (5th) ?
    Who was the better player... Antwan Edwards (1st) or Donald Driver (7th) ?
    Who was the better player.... Ahmad Carroll (1st) or Mark Tauscher (7th) ?

    Greg Jennings was the 52nd pick in 2006 so a lot of teams passed on him and you are pretty happy they did right?
    Ask any Lions fan what they think of their "star" players drafted in the first round over the last 5 years.
     
  18. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Yeah, Jennings had no impact as a rookie. Jolly sure did. Let's compare

    Jennings 14 games 11 starts 45 catches for 635 yard 3 tds.
    Jolly 6 games, no starts 4 tackles.

    Only Driver caught more td passes that year.
    But he had no impact as a rookie.

    BTW Fitzgeralds number for his first year. 58 catches for 780 yards 8 tds.
     
  19. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    Thats just what your going to get when you draft a handful of players, some are going to be busts.
     
  20. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    You guys are picking exceptions. Those Jennings numbers don't demonstrate any impact. 51 catches for 665 yds and 3 tds are Hester's last year numbers... About Jolly, he was a bad pick. There are tons of that. Why not compare Troy Williamson and Kevin Williams' numbers then?
    -
    Philtration, so you're saying teams can make the wrong pick? Looking at my own team, you'll see that the best Def player was a 5th rounder. That doesn't mean much.
    Last year's top 10 wr: Andre Johnson, 1st round; Larry Fitzgerald, 1st round; Steve Smith, 3rd round; Roddy White, 1st round; Calvin Johnson, 1st round; Greg Jennings, 2nd round; Brandon Marshall, 4th round; Antonio Bryant, 2nd round; Wes Welker, undrafted; Reggie Wayne, 1st round.
    So half of them were 1st round picks, and only 2 of them were picked in the 2nd day of the draft (being one undrafted). You see what I meant with the higher the round the greater the chances???
    -
    And my whole point was about next year. Rookies (Wr, Te, Rb) in the top 50 catchers. Eddie Royal, 23rd, DeSean Jackson, 28th, Donnie Avery, 48th. That's it. 3 rookies.
    So, can your receivers be great next season? Of course. Is it probable? Not at all...
     
  21. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    You forgot about Troy "Stone hands" Williamson, Mike Williams, Ted Ginn Jr., Lee Evans, Rashaun Woods, Michael Jenkins. All first round pick. Darius Watts, Keary Colbert, Terrence Murphy, Chad Jackson, Second round stars, NOT. Several are not even playing anymore. Most have never lived up to expectations.

    Your going to the list and seeing the ones that made it. For every one that makes it there are two or more that don't. Take one year. The year of Andre Johnson. The WR's picked in the first two rounds.

    Charles Rodgers. 2nd Out of football
    Andre Johnson. 3rd
    Bryant Johnson 17th. currently playing for the 49ers, 12 tds in 6 years
    Taylor Jacobs 44th. Out of football
    Bethal Johnson 45th. Out of football
    Anquan Boldan 54th
    Tyrone Calico 60th Out of football.

    So that's 3 out of 7 still playing. That's a 43% success rate of just staying in the NFL and that's for one year draft in the first 2 rounds.
     
  22. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    What's the success rate of the 3rd rounders? 4th rounders? 7th rounders???
    43% success rate of that year. But 70% of last years top 10 receivers were picked in the first 2 rounds...
     
  23. Passepartout

    Passepartout Showers of April!

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    Packers will rebound after 2008! Mark my words!
     
  24. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    As it should be. What good would the draft be if only 10% of the top 2 rounds made it in the NFL. I am looking for the article someone wrote on it a while back. It went something like 45-50% of first two rounds make it and then the number go down from there for each round thereafter.
     
  25. cyoung

    cyoung Cheesehead

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    Whats wrong with Lee Evans, I think he's a pretty food wide receiver. Michael Jenkins has played decent in Atlanta, and Terrence Murphy career was stopped by injuries, not his fault.
     

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