NFC North 2025

[rmontro]

Aaron Jones placed on IR for hamstring. I'm still a fan of him, but right now it looks like the Vikings season is starting to fall apart.

 

[Voyageur]

Aaron Jones placed on IR for hamstring. I'm still a fan of him, but right now it looks like the Vikings season is starting to fall apart.

You never know when injuries will start taking their toll on a team. I feel bad for him.

 

[Zad Fnark]

We all probably figured Jones was a ticking time bomb anyway, with his injury history.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I know; I was just citing him as an example of your point that sometimes a decent quarterback on a generally good team can sometimes have a lot of success.

Oh I agree and kind of disagree. I wouldn't call the Browns, Flacco's current team, a good team/organization.

I would have to go back and look at each team he has been with in his career, there have been 8 of them, with 2 stints at "Da Jets".

My point was that a team like the 2024 Vikings were able to go 14-3 with Sam Darnold at QB. While Darnold had a decent year, a lot of that was due to the other players around him, as well as a good Vikings defense.

I honestly don't put Jordan Love down as a top 5 or even 10 QB at this point in his career, I hope that changes. But as we have seen in 2 games so far, with a solid defense, a solid O-Line and some weapons, Jordan doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl QB to be the QB on a good team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Aaron Jones placed on IR for hamstring. I'm still a fan of him, but right now it looks like the Vikings season is starting to fall apart.

I think the Vikings season was doomed from the start, when they decided that JJ McCarthy was their starting QB for 2025.

I love AJ and loving Jacobs, but there is something about RB's after so many "miles". They start slowing down and sustaining injuries. I think they sustain the most hits and damage to their body, out of all the positions. Probably why a lot of teams are trying to find their starting RB's in young guys. Cheaper and more durable.

 

[El Guapo]

We all probably figured Jones was a ticking time bomb anyway, with his injury history.

I was happy for Aaron to have a strong, healthy season in Minnesota last year. However, I kept telling my inlaws the same thing....that an injury was inevitable. I swallowed crow when it didn't happen last year, but the honeymoon is over.

 

[El Guapo]

I love AJ and loving Jacobs, but there is something about RB's after so many "miles". They start slowing down and sustaining injuries.

There is a reason the Pony Express men would change horses!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do not jump on the bandwagon so soon. There were many a naysayer in 2008 when Rodgers took the helm for Favre even though he had 3 years to watch. We have seen some short lived Viking QBs, like Teddy, Christian Ponder, Spurgeon Wynn e.g. The list is too long for me to contemplate. I believe the Vikings plan to ride or die with him. This was not a one year plan.

Maybe it is my dislike for the Vikings that taints my view of JJ McCarthy, but I wasn't that impressed with him when he was at Michigan. I know....Tom Brady.

Even if McCarthy goes on to have a decent career, he missed all of last year, his rookie season, after 2 knee surgeries. I just don't think he was ready yet. I would feel a lot different about the "ride or die" with a rookie QB if the Vikings had gone 3-14 last season, but they were a solid 14-3 team. That isn't one that I would want a rookie QB in charge of.

Both Rodgers and Love had a lot of healthy time behind HOF QB's, McCarthy didn't have that benefit.

 

[OldSchool101]

I honestly don't put Jordan Love down as a top 5 or even 10 QB at this point in his career, I hope that changes. But as we have seen in 2 games so far, with a solid defense, a solid O-Line and some weapons, Jordan doesn't have to be a Pro Bowl QB to be the QB on a good team.

Im not sure where to rate Jordan because it’s very early in the season, but I wouldn’t be afraid to put him well into the Top 10 list. Maybe #6,#8 something like that.

 

[OldSchool101]

As far as QB’s in the North? I have Jordan Love as #2 behind Goff. However I think he’s very close to elevating to #1.

Areas of past concern for Jordan? Turnovers and Decision making. THIS next past is why I’ll argue Love is ascending before our eyes.


A few areas where I’m most impressed is Love is no longer forcing the ball. He had several plays against Washington where you could tell he was about to force a throw. Instead he threw the ball away. Those throwaways might be some of the most helpful decisions so far in 2025. Love is quietly on a phenomenal streak. He’s went 226 Regular season Passes (9 games) without an INT. Who does that sound like?? Per PFF Love is #2 in the league across the last 9 games with 4 Turnover worthy plays (PFF) also tied with Aaron Rodgers (4)
Only Josh Allen ranks better in that stretch with 3 Turnover worthy plays. Forcing Balls/Turnover Issue: Corrected

What’s also impressive is Reed played just 5.6% of the Clock against Washington. That means Love was missing 1 of his best 2 WR’s in Week1 (Watson) and 2 of his best 3 Receivers in Week2. Yet against some adversity he used his depth players effectively. Love went 3/3 (100%) for 69 yards to backups (Heath/Musgrave) in Week 2. He was throwing dimes throughout the day and had a TD nullified by penalty

and another pair of TD’s that were off their mark by less than <1 foot. (Wicks Deep Post) I’m not counting the TD miss to Golden that was underthrown and almost an INT.

Perhaps most impressive was either HIS WR catches it? Or nobody catches it! Boy what a difference it makes. I’ve been preaching for nearly 2 seasons that I believe his biggest issue were slight under-throws. So much so that I personally wanted to see him barely OVERTHROW a few deep Receivers and I meant that.
IMO Slightly Underthrown balls cost the Packers 3 Wins in 2023.
Underthrows: Largely Corrected

I couldn’t be more impressed that without benefit of executing those plays? He ranks #1 in Net Yards per Pass (9.76 yards). That’s with Love missing on 1-cylinder. He’s dangerously good because he’s a deep ball threat waiting to happen. A few tweaks? He can ascend into an easy top 5 QB BECAUSE of his Arm strength and Efficiency over others accuracy.

 

[tynimiller]

Turnovers? That seems odd to me being stated as a reason why Goff is better (which FTR I don't disagree and if pushed would also presently say Goff is #1 in division.).

To equalize them let's look at stats over the last three seasons (2025, 2024, 2023).

Love has had 1,057 pass attempts and 22 picks or 2.08% of his attempts being intercepted.
Goff has had 1,211 pass attempts and 25 picks or 2.06% of his attempts being intercepted.

They both essentially are two of the most potent and productive passers w/o risk of turnovers in the league IMO.

 

[El Guapo]

Where the stats paint a partial picture, one needs to just use the eye test. Goff has been great at situational moments by converting 4th downs and getting scores for his team. Love is good at making splash plays with his toys, but will only pass Goff once he gets to the elite level of completing the soul-crushing plays that propel your team to victory.

 

[Voyageur]

As far as QB’s in the North? I have Jordan Love as #2 behind Goff. However I think he’s very close to elevating to #1.

Areas of past concern for Jordan? Turnovers and Decision making. THIS next past is why I’ll argue Love is ascending before our eyes.


A few areas where I’m most impressed is Love is no longer forcing the ball. He had several plays against Washington where you could tell he was about to force a throw. Instead he threw the ball away. Those throwaways might be some of the most helpful decisions so far in 2025. Love is quietly on a phenomenal streak. He’s went 226 Regular season Passes (9 games) without an INT. Who does that sound like?? Per PFF Love is #2 in the league across the last 9 games with 4 Turnover worthy plays (PFF) also tied with Aaron Rodgers (4)
Only Josh Allen ranks better in that stretch with 3 Turnover worthy plays. Forcing Balls/Turnover Issue: Corrected

What’s also impressive is Reed played just 5.6% of the Clock against Washington. That means Love was missing 1 of his best 2 WR’s in Week1 (Watson) and 2 of his best 3 Receivers in Week2. Yet against some adversity he used his depth players effectively. Love went 3/3 (100%) for 69 yards to backups (Heath/Musgrave) in Week 2. He was throwing dimes throughout the day and had a TD nullified by penalty and another pair of TD’s that were off their mark by less than <1 foot. (The Doubs high point at left Pylon and the Golden Deep Post) I’m not counting the TD miss to Golden that was underthrown and almost an INT.

Perhaps most impressive was either HIS WR catches it? Or nobody catches it! Boy what a difference it makes. I’ve been preaching for nearly 2 seasons that I believe his biggest issue were slight under-throws. So much so that I personally wanted to see him barely OVERTHROW a few deep Receivers and I meant that.
IMO Slightly Underthrown balls cost the Packers 3 Wins in 2023.
Underthrows: Largely Corrected

I couldn’t be more impressed that without benefit of executing those plays? He ranks #1 in Net Yards per Pass (9.76 yards). That’s with Love missing on 1-cylinder. He’s dangerously good because he’s a deep ball threat waiting to happen. A few tweaks? He can ascend into an easy top 5 QB BECAUSE of his Arm strength and Efficiency over others accuracy.

I'm not certain we can say Love has improved that much when it comes to forcing passes. The Packers have done so well offensively and defensively that he hasn't been put into a critical situation in either game. That's coming, and when it does, we'll know more as to where he stands in that area.

At this point, I consider Love a solid "caretaker QB" with the potential to be a fairly elite QB under the right circumstances. I'm still far from believing that he's going to be a better pressure QB than Rodgers, or a better gunslinger than Favre. In my mind he's more conservative in his views unless he gets rattled. I see a lot of potential. Time will tell how far he goes.

What's missed when we look at this team is that the offensive line, TEs, and WRs are all talented groups and contribute heavily to the team's offensive success. Love fits into that picture perfectly because he's not a gaudy self-anointed hero type. He's just a guy who does his best and that is what the Packers need. He's more low-key, a lot like Bart Starr was.

Also, the offense is solid because the defense makes sure they get their opportunities and aren't put under enormous pressure to constantly come from behind to stay in ball games.

To be honest, this is the best-balanced Packer team that I've seen in a lot of years. The potential to do extremely well this year is out there, now if they can avoid injuries and don't lose confidence in themselves it could be one heckuva ride.

 

[OldSchool101]

Turnovers? That seems odd to me being stated as a reason why Goff is better (which FTR I don't disagree and if pushed would also presently say Goff is #1 in division.).

Turnovers were never directly tied to Goff being better. At least not from my point of view. Goff is better for other reasons though.
#1 80.6% comp%
#14 in attempts but…
#2 in 1st Downs (28)
#1 in TD’s (6)
#3 Passer Rating (125.5%)
#2 QB rating (81.7)

 

[tynimiller]

Where the stats paint a partial picture, one needs to just use the eye test. Goff has been great at situational moments by converting 4th downs and getting scores for his team. Love is good at making splash plays with his toys, but will only pass Goff once he gets to the elite level of completing the soul-crushing plays that propel your team to victory.

I was curious on 4ds...but was mad no reliable site I have seems to track that well...but here are some other stats digging deeper into each below...again like @El Guapo says stats do not tell full pictures but are worth including:

4Q comebacks - Love has 4 since 2023 and Goff 6
Net Yards gained per attempt (last three year listed 25, 24, 23) : Love 8.31 | 7.50 | 6.43 | Goff 7.52 | 7.71 | 6.89
Drop% (25, 24, 23) - Love 2% | 7.3% | 5.4% Goff 3% | 2.1% | 6.1%
Passes batted or defended by defense since 2023: Love 14 Goff 18
Completion % - Love 66% | 63.1% | 64.2% Goff 80.6% | 72.4% | 67.3%
Game winning drives last three years - Love 5 Goff 7
Air yards per completion - Love 8.9 | 6.5 | 6 Goff 5.1 | 5.1 | 6 *this one is a stat that of course illustrates to some how risky are throws...because of course the longer the pass in the air pass the line of scrimmage the more risk it becomes.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm still far from believing that he's going to be a better pressure QB than Rodgers,

I mean of course he isn't as good as one of the best to literally ever wear cleats on a football field LOL

 

[OldSchool101]

I'm not certain we can say Love has improved that much when it comes to forcing passes. The Packers have done so well offensively and defensively that he hasn't been put into a critical situation in either game. That's coming, and when it does, we'll know more as to where he stands in that area.

Sure, Looking in a narrow scope of 2 games in only 2025, I’d agree.
Yet I argue it doesn’t include he’s bigger sample size.
Love was absolutely in a pressure cooker down the stretch last season after the Bye Week. I took ONLY the 3 games in 2024 that were decided by 2 point finishes (Bears, Detroit, MN) He had ZERO INT. A pair of those teams were Top 10 Defenses.

He’s #1 in INT ratio across the last 9 contests. That’s remarkable when you consider that was his largest area of concern. The 1 outlier? GB at Philly. Although I think we can agree that was an exceptional Defense AND GB was a little nicked up injury wise.

 

[OldSchool101]

I mean of course he isn't as good as one of the best to literally ever wear cleats on a football field LOL

Interesting note.

Tom Brady leads NFL history with the MOST 4th qtr comebacks. Across 23 seasons he had 46 comebacks or exactly 2.0 per season. No QB ever has near the help on D as Tom Brady
#8 average scoring D

Matt Ryan has an exceptional 4th qtr comeback rate. He sits at 2.53 comebacks per season played.

Jordan Love has FOUR 4th quarter comebacks. ~1.9 per season.

John “The Comeback Kid” Elway
4th Qtr comebacks per season career.
1.94 per season

Russel Wilson is in the mix at 2.13 4th Qtr Comebacks per season finished (13 seasons)

Aaron Rodgers has 24 4th Qtr comebacks. A poor level 1.2 per season

 

[mradtke66]

I actually could see the Vikings contacting the Falcons, to see if they are willing to trade Kirk Cousins. But Atlanta invested a ton into Cousins and not sure if they could absorb the dead cap. Nor would the Vikings probably want to assume that contract.

The dead cap to the Falcons is probably the killer, but Kirk's base salary of 35M in 2026 and 2027 isn't horrible in the current cap, just under 12% (assuming I can math today.). 25M base is even better for this year. And since the Falcons already paid the bonus, that' more or less all the Vikings would be on the hook for.

Assuming they actually want him, they could offer a lowball pick as a 1 year rental and cut him after 2025 with no dead cap or give Kirk a new deal. I'm not sure what the magic number would be for him, but, a 36M signing bonus and 3 years would roughly match his bonus with Falcons. Perhaps too much for the injury and the age, but it illustrates how they could make him more affordable. I'd presume Cousins would take such a deal (or a similar one). This could very well be his last contract and he has to know that. He'd get one more big payday before he retires.

 

[El Guapo]

Matt Ryan has an exceptional 4th qtr comeback rate. He sits at 2.53 comebacks per season played.

Too bad he missed the big chance in the 2016/17 Super Bowl when they allowed Brady to have the massive comeback victory to win the trophy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Im not sure where to rate Jordan because it’s very early in the season, but I wouldn’t be afraid to put him well into the Top 10 list. Maybe #6,#8 something like that.

Personally, if you base it on what he has done so far in his career, I wouldn't put him in the top 10 of active QB's. Now if you are talking about potential, by the end of this season, maybe he lands there.

I'm not ripping on Love at all. The Packers invested in a guy that they feel has a lot of upside and I agree with them. Every game he plays, he seems to get more confident. It also helps that he finally is getting some developed weapons and if the OL holds up, this could be a huge year for Jordan.

 

[Poppa San]

I wouldn't put him in the top 10 of active QB'

Who is your top 10 then?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Who is your top 10 then?

Again, this isn't based on just 2 games, but based on what the active QB's have done during their time in the NFL and still doing.

Quickly and off the top of my head....

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Joe Burrow
5. Justin Herbert
6. Jalen Hurst
7. Mathew Stafford
8. CJ Stroud
9. Jared Goff
10. Baker Mayfield

 

[Voyageur]

Again, this isn't based on just 2 games, but based on what the active QB's have done during their time in the NFL and still doing.

Quickly and off the top of my head....

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Joe Burrow
5. Justin Herbert
6. Jalen Hurst
7. Mathew Stafford
8. CJ Stroud
9. Jared Goff
10. Baker Mayfield

It's interesting you putting Mayfield into that group. I can't disagree. In so many ways his career seems to resemble that of Kurt Warner in some respects. Guys who didn't show that much early but came out of nowhere to be something special.

I've watched how Mayfield has defied all the knocks against him and still bounced back. It's the trait of a winner. What makes him special, in my opinion, is the way he's learned how to be a game manager.

 

[mradtke66]

Again, this isn't based on just 2 games, but based on what the active QB's have done during their time in the NFL and still doing.

Quickly and off the top of my head....

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Lamar Jackson
4. Joe Burrow
5. Justin Herbert
6. Jalen Hurst
7. Mathew Stafford
8. CJ Stroud
9. Jared Goff
10. Baker Mayfield

The fun with these questions are "career goodness" vs. "what can they do for me this year."

I'd rather have Love before Burrow in 2025--one of them is likely to be out for 3 months.