NFC North 2025

[Magooch]

The Bears have had 5 offensive coordinators since 2018. Each time the name changes, so does the offense. Players are drafted to fill specific needs within an OC's schemes and then the OC is gone and way too many players end up as square pegs trying to fill round holes. This goes back on Poles, and the fact the Bears were stupid enough to believe this guy is a football guru who can develop a winning organization. He's where the changes should have started, and maybe even up with the President, who was dumb enough to believe this guy is something special.

If you look at winning programs, they have a consistency in their coaching staffs at least at the top, and when coordinators are changed, the incoming candidates are well versed in the existing offense and defense employed and do not try to install wholesale changes.

Even Jeff Haley, the Packers defensive coordinator acknowledged when he took the job that you need to be able to build on the players you've already got in house because you can't change all of them overnight to fit a completely new system. Haley is successful to this point because he recognizes that you need to lean on the abilities that each player has and blend it into a total package.

As long as the Bears and Vikings don't understand that they'll continue to shoot themselves in the foot.

What is interesting in this regard is that I recall reading some conversations/interviews a couple of years ago that basically suggested that when Ben Johnson was set to take over as Lions OC, he sat down with Goff and did film sessions with him and more or less the two of them collaborated to craft the offense to cater to Goff's strengths.

Of course it is very early, but now it seems like in Chicago...he is still trying to run that offense, rather than sitting down to build an offense that caters to Caleb's strengths.

So it makes me wonder if A.) it wasn't so much that Johnson built his offense around Goff but rather had an offensive scheme in mind that happened to align with Goff's strengths; and/or B.) Johnson doesn't intend to cater his offense around Caleb's strengths and instead is hoping to mold Caleb to become a more Goff-like QB.

I'm really interested to see what comes of Tyson Bagent if the Bears and/or CW don't get things turned around in a hurry. He's the first Bears QB since Jay Cutler (!) to receive a contract extension, and Ben Johnson really likes him - it was one of his first orders of business to get Bagent extended. He's not as talented as Willams, lower ceiling, but you could argue he's a better "rhythm" or "timing" guy and a lot closer to the "Goff-mold" than Williams is. And they signed him to 2 years, 10m with the ability to get up to 16m based on incentives...Not extraordinary, but pretty "high-end" backup money IMO...

 

[gopkrs]

What is interesting in this regard is that I recall reading some conversations/interviews a couple of years ago that basically suggested that when Ben Johnson was set to take over as Lions OC, he sat down with Goff and did film sessions with him and more or less the two of them collaborated to craft the offense to cater to Goff's strengths.

Of course it is very early, but now it seems like in Chicago...he is still trying to run that offense, rather than sitting down to build an offense that caters to Caleb's strengths.

So it makes me wonder if A.) it wasn't so much that Johnson built his offense around Goff but rather had an offensive scheme in mind that happened to align with Goff's strengths; and/or B.) Johnson doesn't intend to cater his offense around Caleb's strengths and instead is hoping to mold Caleb to become a more Goff-like QB.

I'm really interested to see what comes of Tyson Bagent if the Bears and/or CW don't get things turned around in a hurry. He's the first Bears QB since Jay Cutler (!) to receive a contract extension, and Ben Johnson really likes him - it was one of his first orders of business to get Bagent extended. He's not as talented as Willams, lower ceiling, but you could argue he's a better "rhythm" or "timing" guy and a lot closer to the "Goff-mold" than Williams is. And they signed him to 2 years, 10m with the ability to get up to 16m based on incentives...Not extraordinary, but pretty "high-end" backup money IMO...

Sounds reasonable. I'd be willing to give Malik that. Hard to know what Malik will get on the open market next year. Hopefully he won't have to play this year.

 

[tynimiller]

Sounds reasonable. I'd be willing to give Malik that. Hard to know what Malik will get on the open market next year. Hopefully he won't have to play this year.

Willis without blinking gets easily double if not triple a Bagent deal. He has proven far more than Tyson IMO. I personally expect Willis to get somewhere in that $20M/yr type deal on a likely one or two year deal without much risk to the team. Daniel Jones got $14M one year and Fields got a 2 year $40M which is where I'm pulling this from personally.

 

[formerlybis]

Not a knock on you, but I love how every team in the NFL can improve consistently (better in the offseason, every draft hits, every FA hits, every coaching moves hits) while the Packers can do absolutely nothing other than stay static or regress.

In other words, the Packers can figure some things out too in particular on the offensive side.

Point taken, but a team with a new coaching staff does usually have a learning curve/adjustment period. Campbell didn't have immediate results, for example. Better to get those teams early.

Conversely, they don't always gel - see every other Bears coaching move for the last decade or so. I would put more money on Johnson figuring it out than not, though, and it could be by going to the backup QB with a lower ceiling, but one who operates at a consistently higher level.

 

[gopkrs]

Willis without blinking gets easily double if not triple a Bagent deal. He has proven far more than Tyson IMO. I personally expect Willis to get somewhere in that $20M/yr type deal on a likely one or two year deal without much risk to the team. Daniel Jones got $14M one year and Fields got a 2 year $40M which is where I'm pulling this from personally.

Then that team will have to consider him a possible starter. Jones looked much better yesterday imho than he did in NY. Whereas Fields looked good in one game and evidently bad in the 2nd. And you are right. That is probably where Malik's heading if he doesn't get a chance to show more this year.

 

[OldSchool101]

I truly believe our new DL coach has been a factor also.(obviously combined with Parsons). Jeff has an extensive background in the development of the Secondary. This addition was brilliance.

I’m really interested to see the Packers Offense explode more. They are good but imo are not playing to ability. I realize it’s week 2. If they can get Musgrave and Savion up to speed that would add some firepower. Also the Run block earlier in the game is very pedestrian.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I never bet on Football games, but I almost broke that streak yesterday after the Lion-Bear Game. The way the Lions mauled the Bears, I knew that the Vikings weren't very good (based on them barely beating Da Bears in Week 1) and should have placed a sizable chunk of change on the underdog Falcons.

JJ McCarthy isn't ready for the NFL. I hope he never amounts to a starting QB, at least with the Queens. Much like the Bears are finding out with Caleb Williams and all the guys who proceeded him, drafting a QB with a top 10 pick, doesn't mean squat anymore.

This may end up being a 2 team race in the North.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the Vikings are finding out that Darnold was more important to the offense than they thought. JJ doesn't impress me in the slightest. They were lucky they played the Bears week one. The way their offense was manhandled and the rush put on JJ pointed out some serious weaknesses that people are going to exploit.

Spot on. I said it months ago, if they didn't want to resign Darnold, they should have signed A-Rod. He wanted to play for the Vikings and he would have come cheap. The Viking offense looks slow and disorganized with JJ behind center. I hope it stays there for years to come.

 

[OldSchool101]

Not a knock on you, but I love how every team in the NFL can improve consistently (better in the offseason, every draft hits, every FA hits, every coaching moves hits) while the Packers can do absolutely nothing other than stay static or regress.

In other words, the Packers can figure some things out too in particular on the offensive side.

Actually if there anything we’ve learned about a Jordan Love led Offense, it’s that he gains momentum around mid season. Each year maybe a smidge earlier. It’s very possible this Offense opens up wide after Watson is back for a Week or Two. I predict Golden will start to get more looks with Reed out. Then about the time he has a reasonably good showing (6X85 yards 1TD). We see Watson enter the frame.
Other teams fans are underestimating what having a pair of 4.3’s Blazers on the field simultaneously can do. Especially with Kraft underneath, he can no longer be ignored.

We still have 3 potential players gearing up. Starting with Savion and Musgrave. About that time Lloyd and then Reed overlap back into the picture. We could have playmakers everywhere by the stretch run

 

[milani]

Then that team will have to consider him a possible starter. Jones looked much better yesterday imho than he did in NY. Whereas Fields looked good in one game and evidently bad in the 2nd. And you are right. That is probably where Malik's heading if he doesn't get a chance to show more this year.

Fields went down in WK2.

 

[Poppa San]

Bears look bad.

Maybe that will change, but for now they look like a train wreck.

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[tynimiller]

Actually if there anything we’ve learned about a Jordan Love led Offense, it’s that he gains momentum around mid season. Each year maybe a smidge earlier. It’s very possible this Offense opens up wide after Watson is back for a Week or Two. I predict Golden will start to get more looks with Reed out. Then about the time he has a reasonably good showing (6X85 yards 1TD). We see Watson enter the frame.
Other teams fans are underestimating what having a pair of 4.3’s Blazers on the field simultaneously can do. Especially with Kraft underneath, he can no longer be ignored.

We still have 3 potential players gearing up. Starting with Savion and Musgrave. About that time Lloyd and then Reed overlap back into the picture. We could have playmakers everywhere by the stretch run

I cannot imagine trying to defend if we line up with both Musgrave and Kraft with Watson and Golden wideouts….talk about some insane field stretching options…

 

[gopkrs]

Fields went down in WK2.

Not sure when he left but he managed to go 3 for 11. I don't imagine he had much time to throw though.

 

[Voyageur]

I know a lot of people don't agree with me on this but I think a QB coming into the league should learn the game for two-years before being considered as a starting QB. I think that's what's holding Caleb Williams & JJ McCarthy back. They were thrown out there too soon and it's difficult enough to producing winning football without trying to do it before you even totally understand what's going on in front of you.

The problem is there because teams that draft a QB early are doing so because they don't have a decent QB and there's an urgency to turn their team into a winner. Quite often, jobs are on the line and that's where the trouble starts. I realize people can point at several rookie QBs that had solid seasons but look at how many of them never really advance past that level in following seasons. It's like their growth is stunted from being rushed into the game.

I think Love would have been in the same boat as both of these guys had he been rushed into service and I think it would have more than likely been the same thing for Rodgers.

 

[OldSchool101]

NFL Power Rankings entering Week 3: The Packers look like the best team in football

The gap between the top three teams is very, very small, but one has stood above the rest with two dominant wins over good teams.

sports.yahoo.com

Haven’t seen that in awhile!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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I heard it on the radio this morning, and I didn't right the numbers down, but JJ McCarthys ratings for 7 out of 8 quarters is terrible. His one "good" quarter was against the Bears in the 4th Q of that game.

Now it is too early to call JJ a bust, but his "high ankle sprain" is going to let him ride the bench for 3-4 weeks, while Carson Wentz starts.

I still do not understand why the Vikings coaches/GM thought they could hand a 14-3 team to McCarthy and still be a playoff team. They will be kicking themselves for years to come for not resigning Sam Darnold or signing Aaron Rodgers for 2025 and give McCarthy 1-2 more years learning.

 

[Magooch]

That whole handling of the McCarthy situation was really odd all around.

Personally, I think Darnold's season was a bit of an "illusion"... probably not super representative of what they could consistently expect from him long-term. And that kinda reared its head in their final game vs the Lions and in the postseason. So I can understand not wanting to make the commitment to him long term. But IMO McCarthy was never going to be an "early starter" type of guy. I think Rodgers would've made a lot of sense for them as a short-term commitment, or something along those lines.

BUT at the same time...McCarthy getting drafted to them when/where they did in the first place was kind of puzzling to me. I think in college he was a good, not great QB. I think he benefitted from playing in a system that was really friendly to him, and IMO a lot of teams were going to get enamored by his sterling W-L record. In some sense he does/did seem like an "intangibles" type of guy. Honestly, whether consciously or not, I think many teams/scouts probably saw (or wanted to see/made themselves see) a comp to another Wolverine QB... who went to the pros and had that "he just wins games" quality about him. Of course, none other than Tom Brady, lol.

I heard some guys talking about QB evaluation the other day and something that stuck out to me when talking about high QB draft picks...you want a guy who has some "unicorn traits." Most all the guys who "make it" have the same set of minimum/basic qualities. They can all make "NFL throws," they've got the build or durability for it, they can learn the offense, just kind of fundamental NFL-player stuff. But when you are spending an early draft pick on them and wanting them to be "The Guy" for you going forward...you have to ask: What are his "unicorn traits?" What does this guy do better than anyone else? What can he do that others can't?
In recent memory for instance you had Caleb Williams who was seen as a uniquely gifted "improv" player, in college he could extend plays and make "circus" throws like no one else. A guy like Travis Hunter was seen as a first-round quality CB *and* WR. Ashton Jeanty was perhaps the most explosive collegiate RB since Barry Sanders. And so on... you get the idea. But McCarthy... what were his "unicorn traits?" I just don't know for sure...

 

[gopkrs]

Darnold is better than a lot of people here thought and some still think. Imo

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Darnold is better than a lot of people here thought and some still think. Imo

I agree and I think he was looking for a longer term and higher paying deal than the Vikings were willing to give him. Which is why I thought that A-Rod was their logical choice at QB.

Darnold isn't an all pro QB, but he is a good game manager and had a solid team around him, last year in Minnesota. Sometimes that is all a team needs to go a long way.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I actually could see the Vikings contacting the Falcons, to see if they are willing to trade Kirk Cousins. But Atlanta invested a ton into Cousins and not sure if they could absorb the dead cap. Nor would the Vikings probably want to assume that contract.

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[Thirteen Below]

Darnold isn't an all pro QB, but he is a good game manager and had a solid team around him, last year in Minnesota. Sometimes that is all a team needs to go a long way.

*cough* Joe Flacco *cough*

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

*cough* Joe Flacco *cough*

While Flacco had his days in Baltimore, given that he is now 40, I would put his abilities to play in the NFL at a low bar. Whereas Darnold is only 28 and seemed to improve as a Viking.

 

[Thirteen Below]

While Flacco had his days in Baltimore, given that he is now 40, I would put his abilities to play in the NFL at a low bar. Whereas Darnold is only 28 and seemed to improve as a Viking.

I know; I was just citing him as an example of your point that sometimes a decent quarterback on a generally good team can sometimes have a lot of success.

 

[milani]

I heard it on the radio this morning, and I didn't right the numbers down, but JJ McCarthys ratings for 7 out of 8 quarters is terrible. His one "good" quarter was against the Bears in the 4th Q of that game.

Now it is too early to call JJ a bust, but his "high ankle sprain" is going to let him ride the bench for 3-4 weeks, while Carson Wentz starts.

I still do not understand why the Vikings coaches/GM thought they could hand a 14-3 team to McCarthy and still be a playoff team. They will be kicking themselves for years to come for not resigning Sam Darnold or signing Aaron Rodgers for 2025 and give McCarthy 1-2 more years learning.

Do not jump on the bandwagon so soon. There were many a naysayer in 2008 when Rodgers took the helm for Favre even though he had 3 years to watch. We have seen some short lived Viking QBs, like Teddy, Christian Ponder, Spurgeon Wynn e.g. The list is too long for me to contemplate. I believe the Vikings plan to ride or die with him. This was not a one year plan.

 

[gopkrs]

No. But I'm sure they expected to do better than this so far. But sure. Have to see more.