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my team breakdown tell me what u think.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by NICKBARNETT, Apr 16, 2010.

  1. NICKBARNETT

    NICKBARNETT Cheesehead

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    WROTE ON AN I PHONE SO EXCUSE MY SPELLING.

    defense.

    everyone seems to think that the packers need a safety or cb either in the draft or free agency im not to convinced that we do. remember people we had the best run d in the league they were forced to pass on us. we will have al back and traymon back at the 3 spot and imo he is the best 3 corner in the league. we DO NOT NEED A SAFETY atari had one of his best years last year (when he was on the field).imo the only weak spot in our defense is brad jones if he starts we are in trouble nfc is getting better and better he will not cut it, does anyone remember when chillar sacked cutler by jumping over the rb?? why not put him there he could do that all day.

    offense
    with finley starting every game and havner as the backup we will be explosive, can u imagine both of them on the field at the same time wouldent be fair. our OL will be fine with a draft pick and staying healthy.the only thing we REALLY need is a 3rd down back which i think we will fill in the draft

    thank for the read ......... lets hear what u think
     
  2. PackerBacker4Life

    PackerBacker4Life Cheesehead

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    alright... Tramon is not the best 3 corner in the league. not even close. Havner is not a real offesnsive threat. Great work ethic but a finely combo with him would not be epic. I agree on a 3rd down back and Chillar is not better than Brad Jones. my 2 cents
     
  3. NICKBARNETT

    NICKBARNETT Cheesehead

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    havner doesnt drop the ball and can beat lb all day long. jones has shown no potential.
     
  4. PackerBacker4Life

    PackerBacker4Life Cheesehead

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    R u serious with Brad Jones??? When kampman went down he stepped in and did his job better than kampman was.Havner can not beat a LB anyday. what game r u watching
     
  5. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I think Jones has shown a lot of potential if you ask me. Like I said before, if we want a LB in this draft we shouldn't waste an early round pick on one because we need someone to compete for the job NOT a starter. I don't really believe that Bigby had a positive season. He was injured (surprised?) and while he did amass 4 picks, only 2 of those were legit. The other two INTs were those that just fell right into his lap. Even Jarrett Bush had one of those types of INTs.
     
  6. PackerBacker4Life

    PackerBacker4Life Cheesehead

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    agreed
     
  7. olwig420

    olwig420 Cheesehead

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    I actually agree with you in some respects. I wish I had as much confidence in Bigby as you but that's just not going to happen. I think we could easily up grad the Safety position with a 2nd or 3rd round draft pick. I would however agree that I would prefer the upgrade to OLB over CB or S. The less time the QB has to throw the ball the less coverage the corners and safeties need to provide. WE NEED TO GET AT THE QB no questions asked and I do think we will address that need in the first round. I also believe we will scrape and fight to get McCluster at least I hope we do. If we could get Kendal/Hughes, McCluster, and Jason Fox (or comparable OT) in the first 3 rounds with some upgrades to CB and S coming in later rounds I would be happy for this year. I don't see us being a SB contender for at least one more year. I would also like to see us take Schofield.
     
  8. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    Jones will be far better than Hawk this year.
     
  9. favrebacker4life

    favrebacker4life Cheesehead

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    Im sorry but I gotta disagree with almost everything you posted about the defense. We do need a CB or safety via the draft but not free agency. I'm not saying the first round or even the second or third. Al Harris and Charles Woodson are one of the best cornerback combos in the league but they are both aging. We have to find replacements now so we can groom. Why wait til they retire to find replacements? Bush and Bell were burnt last season against the spread offense. Hopefully we will see enough improvement from Pat Lee and Blackmon before the draft to pass on CBs this draft. There will be a very nice cornerback draft class next season. Atari did not have a good season last year. Yea he got interceptions and landed some hardcore hits but he missed alot of assignments leaving Collins to pick up the slack. Brad Jones was the biggest surprise of the whole season. He was an upgrade from Aaron Kampman which is a huge statement. One guy making one huge play doesn't make him better than another.

    You did better with offense but Havner? Come on really. This guy totals 112 yds last year and you think he's a superstar. And yes I know he did have four TDs with two coming in one game. The defense didn't account for him and A-Rod took advantage of it. They probably thought he was a lost offensive lineman. I would be surprised if he's even on the roster next season. I think everybody is sweating too much about the o-line. I think two draft picks and we'll be fine as long as we stay healthy. We do need some RB help. I really wouldnt mind drafting a small school project and signing Westbrook at the same time. I still can't believe we let Tyrell Sutton go last season.
     
  10. Mack_20

    Mack_20 Cheesehead

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    I couldnt have said that better myself. Agree with everything you said
     
  11. NICKBARNETT

    NICKBARNETT Cheesehead

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    havner wont be on the roster?? if d lee makes the roster over havner we have some big problems d lee couldent catch a ball last year there are threads all over bashing his play. what grounds to u have to say that he was a huge surprise and doesnt drop balls period. and atari had 4 pics with limited time with all the pics we had last yearif he had more then that we would have lost 2 games last year i know he isnt a big cover guy but asking a rookie to start and do a better job specially mays is out of the question. what i was saying about jones is that he can hold his own but there is no up side he will never be a big sack guy or amazing in coverage. imo chillar would get the qb more.

    o and by the way havner special teams play would get him a spot in its self
     
  12. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    In complete agreement as well, minus the RB part. I think we will draft one at some point but I dont put it as a huge need, in comparison to the rest of our needs.
     
  13. favrebacker4life

    favrebacker4life Cheesehead

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    I don't think its a huge need either. Thats why I said a small school project which would mean very late in the draft. It wouldn't even bother me if we just looked at some free agent rookies after the draft.
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    You're much more optimistic than me.

    I think we lack depth at CBs. We have Woodson. Williams is fine, but he's not a starting CB yet. We don't know how Harris will return, and when. And after that, it's all garbage. Maybe Pat Lee is good, but we don't know. We need at least 1 quality CB, picked up early. No 5th round project. Underwood showed promise, but judging from last years' play, he's not ready to step on the field.

    As it is, we can only depend on Superman and Williams. We might have one or two guys in Lee and Harris. But counting on those two, and on nobody getting injuried, is just stupid. Not to mention that CW has only 2 years left tops, and Harris, if he's not done yet, will only have one, maybe 2 at nickel and dime...

    Bigby is allways injuried. We need at least depth at S. Looking at the games, Bigby isn't as bad as his rep, he's fine, when used properly. But we could use a playmaker other than Collins.

    I think Jones will be a very good OLB, but we could also use depth. And he's not proven, that he can make an impact like Clay. We need someone that can step up, because I know for a fact CM3 will be double teamed every single snap, if nobody steps up. Could be Jones, but it's not a certain thing.

    At the DL Raji must show he's worth the #9 pick, and between Harrell and Wynn there's got to be something. If not, we're in trouble. Jenkins is very good, but he'll be an FA next year. Pickett is in his 30s. And Jolly is only good at run support, and will probably miss some games, if not miss the entire season. I think we ought to find a DE, if not this year, next year.

    And at ILB we have a possible pro-bowler in Barnett, an average guy in Hawk, and we could have something in Chillar and Bishop. Chillar player really well the beginning of the season, but after his injury, he wasn't well. And Bishop shows potential every TC, but doesn't get playing time... He needs to show consistancy. We could use another playmaker opposite Barnett, one that plays the pass well...

    At offense, we could use a change-of-pace back, but IMHO we're fine with Grant and BJ as a 3rd down back. His pass blocking skills really came on strong last year. I mean, the guy blocked Lamar Woodley! A RB blocked Lamar Woodley! And Grant, after the OL settled down, had 135 carries, 649 yards (4.8 YPC). 7 TDs in 8 games. Very good numbers.

    At receiver, we're the best in the league, IMHO, with Jennings, Driver, Nelson, Jones and Finley. Havner has very soft hands, and is a fine 2nd TE.

    QB, we simply have the best situation for the future IMHO. Rodgers is certainly a top 5 QB, and he's the youngest of the top 5 QB. The others are all in their 30s, or late 30s. 2 years from now, if not sooner, Rodgers will be the best QB in the league.

    We have problems in our OL. I believe our starting OL is adequate/good, with Clifton, Colledge/Spitz, Wells, Sitton and Tauscher. I think we got one future starter in Lang (be it RT, LT or LG. My money is on RT). We may have something in Evan Dietrich-Smith at C.

    But we need to find the replacements for Clifton and Tauscher this year, and we need better production from our LG, be it Colledge and Spitz stepping up, getting someone, or putting Lang at there.

    Clifton and Tauscher won't play next year. Hell, they might miss games this year, due to injury proneness. We can't wait for next year to pick a LT. We won't pick in the top 10, so we probably won't get a guy that can start right away. Only if we pick up some elite FA next year, which I doubt. That's why I believe we NEED to get someone to prepare THIS YEAR to be the LT of the future, as well as the RT of the future, if Lang is pencilled at LG...

    My overall view on the team...
     
  15. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Lemme just say this: The winning teams aren't the ones that shore up their current problems.

    They are the ones that adress those problems before they become such.
     
  16. NICKBARNETT

    NICKBARNETT Cheesehead

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    thank u packerrs for your opinion and not bashing mine
     
  17. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Sometimes people don't have the tact to critique...

    I don't think nobody was bashing your opinion, as much as there may have been some miscomunications.

    Sometimes I can come up a little abrasive, even though not trying to be as much, and then it gets misunderstood, and it all escalades...

    Don't take it personal! That's my advice...
     
  18. Terry Ott

    Terry Ott Cheesehead

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    Favrebacker4life, when you say, "I still can't believe we let Tyrell Sutton go last season", I could not agree more. Notice how the Panthers, already fairly loaded at RB jumped all over Sutton and used him in spots, enough so that he moved off the bench and into the game plan on a couple of occasions. Say what you will about Carolina being "not so special", they DO seem to know the run game and obviously can spot and nurture talent at that position.

    We have the most anonymous depth chart after Grant and (kind of) Jackson. I can't tell you how often I thought, last season, "good place for a surprise change of pace play (run OR pass) featuring T. Sutton." The guy is simply one of those smallish, and not blazing fast, "gimme the ball and I'll deliver" kinds of people that every solid team needs. In time, I think he will be a factor in the league, probably after next season, and about the time our no-name, pedestrian backup RBs are looking for work outside the NFL.

    Very shaky decision. We seem to be good at picking QBs and receivers, and even tight ends, but when it comes to the run positions, I just don't get what we are trying to do. And I don't think the front office knows better.

    Take a look at Sutton's record, starting with high school (Mr. Ohio Football), then the Big Ten (behind a line that wasn't exactly world class) including his numbers as a receiver out of the backfield where he led the nation in career yards receiving during his 4 years, and tell me he doesn't "belong". He got injured a couple of times, and thus missed several starts (could turn out to be a problem in the NFL, I recognize that) but in a sense that makes his career receiving marks all the more impressive. He was overworked at Northwestern, something an NFL team would not do, so I doubt he will be an injury risk --- but you just never know.

    He wasn't a "blocker", some said. But when Carolina needed a fullback because of injuries, who filled in and was praised for his performance at a position he never played before? Sutton. And he returned kicks for them which he did rarely in college. In other words, the guy is a FOOTBALL PLAYER, with something to prove and a great football IQ to go along with a very manageable ego. Team guy all the way.

    I get ticked off just thinking of him not being a Packer.
     
  19. NotSoSpecialTeams

    NotSoSpecialTeams Cheesehead

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    Couldn't agree more. The fact that he made an impression in a RB group as deep as Carolina's just makes you wonder what he could've done in a running game that could've been bolstered significantly by his change-of-pace ability. We wouldn't be discussing using a pick on a RB this year if we had TS on our roster. That decision to leave him off the final 53 ranks up there with matching Bush's offer sheet as the biggest roster mistake last year.

    As for my thoughts on the original post, I'll start with the defense first. To me, OLB is not a huge need and certainly not a position I'd spend a first rounder on at the moment. Personally, I love Jones' upside. He was hardly perfect but for a rookie 7th rounder in the first year of a new defense to hold his own while filling in for a guy that's been the best pass-rusher on this football team for the past few years AND do a better job, you have a guy that can only get better. With more concerning, long-term needs at OT and DB this year, finding a starter-caliber OLB isn't a priority right now. Losing Al last year was huge and indirectly a big part of our secondary collapses as it moved good ol' Jarrett Bush to nickel. It just showed how badly we need long-term solutions with both our starting corners on the wrong side of 30. I think the hope is that one of Lee, Blackmon, maybe Underwood can emerge into starters but we'd be wise to look for a long-term answer in the draft. We could use an upgrade over Atari but that's a lower priority compared to corner and the OL.

    On offense, it's definitely easy to like what we have with our receiving corps (although I don't think Havner is as good as you seem to think he is). But our biggest need is the OL. I'd be really, REALLY worried if we don't find our long-term answer at LT in this draft especially with how deep the class of tackles are this year. Lang did a solid job, but I see him taking being Tauscher's long-term replacement, not Clifton's. Outside of him, we don't have any other players on our roster that can be projected as future starters at this point. That's the only real concern of mine with our offense.
     
  20. claybillings

    claybillings Cheesehead

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    I 2nd that.
     
  21. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    I agree and not only in that we let Sutton go but we let go of Meredith too. I watched the very first bills game when he was in the lineup and he performed stupendously. Imagine if we had him from the start instead of Barbre.
     
  22. supermancc0386

    supermancc0386 Cheesehead

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    Yes, this right here. I could not for the life of me figure out why Breno and Barbre were on the roster and Meredith was let go. He was raw, but he had some real potential. I loved the pick when Ted made it.

    And the same with Sutton. He looked great in preseason. I could not figure out why he was let go.

    But as for the original post, defensively, I think you're a little off. You bring up a good point that teams couldn't run the ball against us and were forced to the air. The problem was once they got to the air and Harris was out and Williams was #2, it put a huge bulls-eye over the guy our #3 CB was covering. We might be fine without injuries, but injuries are part of the game and you never know who they will hit. I would say safety may be a bit more pressing need than CB. After Bigby and Collins, we need some depth. Bigby is great, but he is injury prone. At least at CB we have some guys back there that may be able to pick it up and they know the system if nothing else. I also think people are exploding the pass rush problem into something bigger than it is. If we get Raji in there healthy, and with a full year under his belt, that is going to help. Jones also was no slouch. He racked up 6 sacks after Kampman went down. I think he can be effective. I think our problem lies more in the secondary than the pass rush. Teams that burnt us had dangerous 1,2 and 3 WRs and Super Bowl winning QBs. We couldn't provide help to the #3CB without taking it from one of the #1 or #2 guys. Not to mention if they threw a decent #4 out there.

    Offense, I think was better. Lee is still the best blocking TE on the roster and will remain. Havner probably will be on the team as he was a bright spot on special teams and a nice surprise target for Rodgers. Finley will be dominant. And the OL will be ok, but could use a draft pick or two. relying on them being healthy is a bad idea for the same reason stated above. As for the 3rd down back, I partially disagree with you. I'm not sure that is a need position at all. After the OL issues got settled, the Packers went 7-1. They scored 122 more points than their opponents in the wins and lost to Pittsburgh by 1. I'm not sure there is a need for any position on offense outside of OL. That being said, a 3rd down back would be a luxury we could take if one were to slip into our lap and he had some return man potential.
     
  23. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Meredith was let go by some reason other than potential.

    The talk was that he was soft. And that you cannot correct...
     
  24. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    Jury is still out on Jones. Where was he in the Cardinal game? We need another great pass rusher to complement Matthews--maybe it'll be Jones, but I'd like to see us draft someone with that ability with our first pick--which I think will be in the second round after Ted trades down. Pass defense is our weakness and the best pass defense is to pressure the QB.
     

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