Move CB up draft board

[HardRightEdge]

Things to consider:

Today is March 20. The season doesn't begin Sunday.

On our roster we have Thomas, Palmer, Hubbard, Thornton, Goodson, Bradford, Mulumba, Glover-Wright. They're all young and developing. Trust the coaches. It's fair to assume that two of these guys are going to become either serviceable starters or very significant contributors that surprise most of the folks here that are worried about our roster on March 20.

We have 9 draft picks and 10 UDFA's coming in the first week of May. More surprises.

There are going to be players cut in the next two months because there is a plethora of teams that cannot successfully manage the cap. This as always is to our advantage. It essentially brings about a second round of free agency where the teams are in control of setting market value, not the player.

This team is going to have the usual 20% turnover- Ted Thompson

The roster development process will work itself out. - Ted Thompson

The roster needs to be set on Labor Day,
not April Fools Day.

Ted thompson is a very patient man. Much to the chagrin of many here who tend to interject their own thought process into Ted's timetable and plan.

Since Thompson doesn't talk about plans, processes and player details, this makes it easy for armchair GM's and the nattering nabobs of negativism to take back-handed swipes at his performance.

I find it very amusing and an interesting study of human behavior to see this play out every single year on this forum. You can set your calendar to it. I wonder what other teams fans would think about this annual phenomena. I would like to hear their thoughts and perceptions on this.

I think I should put this in the signature line: Thompson better have one h*ll of a draft.

 

[Vrill]

We lost Jones Hawk House and Williams. That's an upgrade already. Hayward will play corner Goodson will back him up and we will draft a DB within the first 3 rounds. At ILB we have a bevy of linebackers on our current roster who could switch to inside. Thomas Hubbard Bradford could make the switch. We also have Barrington who I thought played very well while in there. No matter what I think you will see Matthews playing there also at times to keep him moving around to fool offenses. I see them drafting an ILB within the first 3 rounds. At NT I would like them to resign Raji and draft a NT within the first 3 rounds. I really don't think there is any UFAs out there worth bringing in now. To sum it up stay status Quo Sign Raji and draft CB ILB and nose tackle with first 3 picks and I think we will be fine. We probably will get two bonus 4th rounders next year for Williams and House. You Rock Ted. This is how you play free agency.

Hubbard is not an ILB. Hes strictly an OLB. Hes not "built" for it so to speak. Hes never played the position either....

 

[TJV]

The players currently on the roster who will compete for ILB (in addition to Barrington) are: Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, and Francis.

 

[PackerDNA]

The players currently on the roster who will compete for ILB (in addition to Barrington) are: Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, and Francis.

I'm not even mildly excited with those possibilities.

 

[bubba]

My god ! what do you want them to do go out and sign Spikes! Another Hawk clone. We can get the same with our current roster! There is a reason why these guys are available. Man! some of you just don't get it!

 

[PackerDNA]

My God !!! I'm tired of you Pollyanna's tearing into anyone who posts legitimate concerns for discussion.
Why even have a site such as this? And as to your example...YES!!! I'd rather have a proven NFL LB such as Spikes than a hodgepodge of guys who have shown no indication that they'll be the answer - even adequately- at a position of freaking weakness!
I'll give you dollars to donuts that probably- in all likely hood- Spikes will end up having a better and more productive career than any of the above, if not all of them combined.

 

[Mondio]

I have to say, none of the current roster holders or FA's at ILB excite me for anything. I think GB is better off going strong at CB and DL in the draft. I think they have a better chance of hitting more important positions that way.

 

[PackerDNA]

I have to say, none of the current roster holders or FA's at ILB excite me for anything. I think GB is better off going strong at CB and DL in the draft. I think they have a better chance of hitting more important positions that way.

Now that's an interesting thought. If you can't get what you need/want most of all, strengthen the areas around it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What were the targets for other players during the same times

We lost Jones Hawk House and Williams. That's an upgrade already. Hayward will play corner Goodson will back him up and we will draft a DB within the first 3 rounds. At ILB we have a bevy of linebackers on our current roster who could switch to inside. Thomas Hubbard Bradford could make the switch. We also have Barrington who I thought played very well while in there. No matter what I think you will see Matthews playing there also at times to keep him moving around to fool offenses. I see them drafting an ILB within the first 3 rounds. At NT I would like them to resign Raji and draft a NT within the first 3 rounds. I really don't think there is any UFAs out there worth bringing in now. To sum it up stay status Quo Sign Raji and draft CB ILB and nose tackle with first 3 picks and I think we will be fine. We probably will get two bonus 4th rounders next year for Williams and House. You Rock Ted. This is how you play free agency.

Just because we have a ton of players on the roster who could line up at ILB doesn't make them any good. I really have a hard time believing any of them will turn into an impact player at the position as they weren't even able to get on the field last year when the Packers were in dire need of an upgrade.

The players currently on the roster who will compete for ILB (in addition to Barrington) are: Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, and Francis.

They have a combined zero regular season snaps at the position. But hey, at least one of them played for the powerhouse Wichita Falls of the IFL.

My god ! what do you want them to do go out and sign Spikes! Another Hawk clone. We can get the same with our current roster! There is a reason why these guys are available. Man! some of you just don't get it!

Spikes is one of the best run stoppers at the position, he's a way better player than Hawk. Just don't let him ever cover someone.

 

[TJV]

The players currently on the roster who will compete for ILB (in addition to Barrington) are: Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, and Francis.

They have a combined zero regular season snaps at the position. But hey, at least one of them played for the powerhouse Wichita Falls of the IFL.

I was replying to the notion that Hubbard or Perry or another OLB other than Matthews could play ILB.

As McCarthy has said (and Matthews has agreed to) we'll see Matthews reprise his role as part-time ILB so the Packers need to at least replace Hawk’s production after the bye last season. I don’t think that’s a high mountain to climb so I expect the competition of the group I mentioned plus a first or second round draft pick will produce a player who will at least be able to match Hawk’s play. No matter who it is, he will make “rookie” mistakes, but he will also be more physically able to do the job than Hawk. And most importantly, if that player stays healthy, he likely will no longer be making rookie mistakes toward the end of the season. (BTW, does anyone know the percentage of snaps Hawk played after the bye? I believe Matthews played inside a little less than 30% of snaps, and Barrington was the lone ILB on some snaps.)

The Packers are reluctant to start inexperienced players on D but their reluctance isn’t always justified: Despite his mistakes there’s no question HHCD upgraded safety play (admittedly a low bar), so much so I don’t believe Hyde took a snap at S after the bye. And look at how long it took Barrington to get his chance, but he eventually took snaps away from Hawk, Jones, and Lattimore. Of course treading water isn’t the goal but I think there’s a good chance Hawk’s replacement will be playing better than Hawk did last season. And I think it’s likely he’ll be doing so when it matters most, at the end of the season.

Having said that I’d like to see a vet ILB signed as insurance. But IMO losing the experience of Hawk and Brad Jones shouldn't be categorized as a negative. I'm much more concerned about losing Tramon and House and with the current hole at NT with Guion's uncertain status.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was replying to the notion that Hubbard or Perry or another OLB other than Matthews could play ILB.

As McCarthy has said (and Matthews has agreed to) we'll see Matthews reprise his role as part-time ILB so the Packers need to at least replace Hawk’s production after the bye last season. I don’t think that’s a high mountain to climb so I expect the competition of the group I mentioned plus a first or second round draft pick will produce a player who will at least be able to match Hawk’s play. No matter who it is, he will make “rookie” mistakes, but he will also be more physically able to do the job than Hawk. And most importantly, if that player stays healthy, he likely will no longer be making rookie mistakes toward the end of the season. (BTW, does anyone know the percentage of snaps Hawk played after the bye? I believe Matthews played inside a little less than 30% of snaps, and Barrington was the lone ILB on some snaps.)

The Packers are reluctant to start inexperienced players on D but their reluctance isn’t always justified: Despite his mistakes there’s no question HHCD upgraded safety play (admittedly a low bar), so much so I don’t believe Hyde took a snap at S after the bye. And look at how long it took Barrington to get his chance, but he eventually took snaps away from Hawk, Jones, and Lattimore. Of course treading water isn’t the goal but I think there’s a good chance Hawk’s replacement will be playing better than Hawk did last season. And I think it’s likely he’ll be doing so when it matters most, at the end of the season.

Having said that I’d like to see a vet ILB signed as insurance. But IMO losing the experience of Hawk and Brad Jones shouldn't be categorized as a negative. I'm much more concerned about losing Tramon and House and with the current hole at NT with Guion's uncertain status.

I agree the Packers should bring in a veteran at the ILB. In addition I want Thompson to draft another inside backer early in the draft.

I don't have a lot of faith in the guys you mentioned as none of them were able to get on the field last season (aside of Palmer who was on IR) when it was pretty obvious the team was in dire need of an upgrade.

BTW Hawk played 347 out of a possible 667 snaps after the bye (52.0%) including playoffs. He played every single snap in wins vs. Chicago and Philadelphia but was on the field for only 31.5% after the Vikings game.

 

[TJV]

I don't have a lot of faith in the guys you mentioned as none of them were able to get on the field last season (aside of Palmer who was on IR) when it was pretty obvious the team was in dire need of an upgrade.

You thought there was an obvious, dire need for an upgrade and I thought it was obvious and a lot of Packers fans thought it was obvious, but it apparently didn’t become obvious to the Packers’ staff until game 12. This is from McGinn’s individual grades for 2014:

When Barrington was made a surprise starter in Game 7 he had played two snaps from scrimmage in 1½ years. From Game 7-11, Barrington played 32.1% because when Clay Matthews moved inside in Game 9 it was his playing time, not A.J. Hawk's, that plummeted. It wasn't until Games 12-18 when Hawk was demoted and Barrington's playing time swelled to 77.2%.

That corroborates what you posted (not that I was looking for corroboration). But the point is just because some of the other ILBs available didn’t see the field doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t have been upgrades, as they realized Barrington was late in the season. IMO an even more important consideration is Bradford switched positions to ILB very late, Thomas of course was a rookie and Palmer went on IR. I think the best hope for a starter opposite Barrington is the draft but I also will not be surprised to see one of these three win the job.

 

[adambr2]

Here is my 2 cents on Ted Thompson as a GM:

The guy has a very keen eye for offensive talent. Time after time, he's hit homeruns in the draft on offensive players. It's because of his success with offensive players in the draft, I believe, that he gets a bit more credit for his drafting success than he probably deserves. The biggest is Rodgers of course, but Jennings, Cobb, Sitton, Bulaga, Nelson, Lacy, Lang, Linsley, the list goes on and on.

With that said, it's a completely different story on the defensive side of the ball. In 10 years, the only real game changing All-Pro player that he's drafted that is still on this squad is Matthews. This is certainly attributable to many of our defensive struggles the last few years. There are perhaps 2 defensive players that he's drafted that I would refer to as "high quality starters" in Burnett and Daniels, but they are not, at least not yet, at the level to be considered Pro Bowl players. There is a laundry list of players that have come and gone that fall into the category of either "middling role player", or "marginal starter", such as Hawk, Perry, and Neal, despite being high draft picks. Busts have occurred far too often in the early rounds (Harrell, Lee, Worthy, Hodge, Rouse), and middle rounds (McMillian, Manning, Underwood, Blackmon, Thompson). I can accept the fact that most 6th and 7th round picks are never going to amount to much. It's harder to accept when it happens over and over again with your 3rd and 4th round defensive players. If you're going to treat your 3rd and 4th round picks like gold, you had better show us why the majority of the time.

Last year he spent 3rd and 4th round picks on Thornton and Bradford. These picks were barely good enough to make the roster out of their first training camp, and going on IR probably saved Thornton from being cut. A 3rd round pick and 4th round pick not making their first roster out of training camp is almost unheard of in this era, much less 2 in the same draft. They still have a chance to salvage their career, so I won't call them busts yet, but on the same token, we haven't yet seen enough out of Clinton-Dix to pronounce him a 1st round success.

Right now, he covets his picks, and defensive draft picks (like Goodson, last year) far too much for the amount of success that he is having with them. He needs to do better. He has assembled a great offense. But we are becoming a team with a pattern of the plan being "Okay, we have a great offense. Let's hope our defense can be average, and that should give us a chance". And much of this is the lack of success that Thompson has had drafting defensive players.

The frustrating part about Thompson's reluctance to explore free agency is that almost every time he has done so, he has had success (Woodson, Pickett, Peppers, Williams, Guion), and even with a UDFA like Shields. Still, he continues to trust his ability to draft defensive players, when his track record now indicates that he'd probably have more success on the defensive side of the ball if he mixed in a fair amount of defensive talent from other means, whether it be free agency or trade inquiries.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You thought there was an obvious, dire need for an upgrade and I thought it was obvious and a lot of Packers fans thought it was obvious, but it apparently didn’t become obvious to the Packers’ staff until game 12. This is from McGinn’s individual grades for 2014: That corroborates what you posted (not that I was looking for corroboration). But the point is just because some of the other ILBs available didn’t see the field doesn’t necessarily mean they wouldn’t have been upgrades, as they realized Barrington was late in the season. IMO an even more important consideration is Bradford switched positions to ILB very late, Thomas of course was a rookie and Palmer went on IR. I think the best hope for a starter opposite Barrington is the draft but I also will not be surprised to see one of these three win the job.

We'll see what happens in camp and preseason but I would definitely feel better about the position if Thompson added a veteran and an early draft pick to the mix.

 

[HardRightEdge]

My god ! what do you want them to do go out and sign Spikes! Another Hawk clone.

There is little similarity between those players. And yes, Spikes would be good add.

 

[bubba]

Well I am now convinced . I agree we need to sign Spikes and any Cbs still available and any NTs still available because without these castoffs we will absolutely suck next year. I surrender. My apologies to all you future GMs.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The players currently on the roster who will compete for ILB (in addition to Barrington) are: Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, and Francis.

I tremble with excitement.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well I am now convinced . I agree we need to sign Spikes and any Cbs still available and any NTs still available because without these castoffs we will absolutely suck next year. I surrender. My apologies to all you future GMs.

The CB and NT options have been exhausted. The bona fide castoffs will come after the draft and particularly during preseason cut downs.

It's not likely the defense will "absolutely suck", though I would not rule it out entirely. However, there is a good chance it will not be championship caliber.

 

[bubba]

I will play TT here. Why do you want me to sign Spikes? He is a 2 down LB like Barrington who will be a lot more expensive. We need an ILB who is fast and can cover sideline to sideline. That guy is not out there right now but he is in the draft. Eric Kendricks is that man and I believe he will be our first draft pick. Problem solved.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I will play TT here. Why do you want me to sign Spikes? He is a 2 down LB like Barrington who will be a lot more expensive. We need an ILB who is fast and can cover sideline to sideline. That guy is not out there right now but he is in the draft. Eric Kendricks is that man and I believe he will be our first draft pick. Problem solved.

If you look around, a few of us are way ahead of you in recommending Kendricks at #30. So let us count the virtues of adding Spikes along with Kendricks:

- Being a 2-down ILB, he won't cost much.
- He adds definite value in short yardage and goal line.
- I like the way Buffalo used him. Against pass oriented teams (liked the Packers) he'd sit and the Bills would play nickel all day with their other two stud LBs. Against run-oriented teams and/or lousy QBs he'd get 40 snaps.
- There's only one ILB currently on this roster who's taken an NFL snap. That's Barrington; he has a scant 7 games experience. Spikes would add a veteran presence in a group of unproven and, frankly, undistinguished players.
- He was made a defensive captain on a veteran Buffalo unit before his first preseason there was concluded. You're getting a leader and good locker room guy.

We've covered these points in other threads, many times.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The CB and NT options have been exhausted. The bona fide castoffs will come after the draft and particularly during preseason cut downs.

There aren't any CBs available in free agency I'm interested in. Red Bryant would be an option for the NT positions though. With him being cut he won't result in the Packers losing a compensatory pick as well.

 

[PackerDNA]

With LB becoming a need for some teams who didn't need one until recently, like the 49ers, I'm starting to doubt Kendricks will be available.
If this team is 'so close' to winning a title, then it should be time to step outside the lines a bit and get aggressive.
I started out years ago as a doubter of Thompson and his tactics. He won me over when I saw and finally figured out what he was trying to do. But as much as I've grown to respect him and his methods, there's always been something missing that I've been unable to put my finger on or articulate. Adambr2 hit the nail on the head for me with some points.What it basically comes down to is this.
Take that extra step. Step out of character, make a signing or two that you normally wouldn't. Use all the tools in the toolbox; that includes not just the draft, but UFA and trades.
Inquire around to see if any DT, CB, or ILB are available for trade. Trade up in the draft; make it a two player draft, two guys who can step in and make a difference right away instead of loading up on prospects and potential- like Thornton.
You're close? Then go for it; sign Bryant and Spikes. See if anyone is available for trade. Trade up in the draft if you think Kendricks is the guy and won't be available when you pick.This isn't a team in building mode, so don't act like it with hoarding picks and cap money. That doesn't mean get reckless and stupid or make moves just to make moves.
But go more for moves to get the players who put you over the top.
Better to dare greatly. I don't want to watch Rodgers at his retirement ceremony talking about how his greatest regret is having won only one title.

 

[PikeBadger]

Yep and 98% of the guys you listed are gone.

More like 67%. As should be considering normal roster turnover and the fact it's been 4 years since the Super Bowl

 

[PikeBadger]

I think I should put this in the signature line: Thompson better have one h*ll of a draft.

Yes, you should. You seem to be committed to the idea that is the only possible way we'll be any good this year.

Actually, I'm not sure what is defined as "hell of a draft" but I expect we'll see the typical one or two draftees starting, a few more contributing in the depth and on special teams.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes, you should. You seem to be committed to the idea that is the only possible way we'll be any good this year.

Actually, I'm not sure what is defined as "hell of a draft" but I expect we'll see the typical one or two draftees starting, a few more contributing in the depth and on special teams.

As of right now Thompson needs to find a starter at NT and ILB, a dime corner and some depth at inside linebacker in this year's draft. That's a tough task to accomplish.