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Marvin Lewis: Replacement ref didn’t know defenseless receiver rule

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by News Bot, Aug 24, 2012.

  1. News Bot

    News Bot News Bot

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    Source: ProFootballTalk.com
     
  2. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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  3. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    It seems these guys are forgetting how mediocre the regular NFL officials are. I could easily see the regulars making the exact same calls these guys did. The replacements are doing fine and if anything, they're letting them play a little more, which I personally welcome. I simply have no sympathy for a bunch of part-time officials who make anywhere from $60-150/hour who are only marginally better than what we have now. I don't even fault them for the no-call on the deep pass to Nelson. Non-calls like that happen all the time in the NFL.

    To me, it seems like a lot of the complainers are guys who have taken sides with the regulars.
     
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It is other players too

    http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/...we-criticizes-replacement-refs-twitter-082412

    Then major sites blasting them as well

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...ials-continue-mockery-nfl-114253266--nfl.html

    Watch the video of the Giants, Bear game and the flag on the defensive..end of the 1st quarter defense gets a flag...The refs actually ALLOW the Bears to run a free play?????????????????????? It isnt the end of the half or end of the game...

    Cutler is quoted as saying he is amused at the replacements

    Then this


    Then coaches too

    http://www.csnbayarea.com/football-...baugh-QA-Some-crazy-wild-calls?blockID=759351

    http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2012/8/24/3265356/nfl-replacement-referees-titans-bengals

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-players-think-replacement-refs-bad-for-game/

    After all these complaints you still think there isnt an issue?
     
  5. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    LTF, to be honest, none of that means a thing to me. All that matters to me is what I see with my own eyes, and from the 7 or 8 games I've seen, they haven't blown any more calls that the other guys do.

    It should be no surprise that media outlets would back the regulars. They're all pro-union anyway. They never saw a strike they didn't like. As far as players and coaches go, when do they NOT complain about the officials, whomever they may be? Besides, wouldn't you expect the NFLPA to support their NFLRA "brothers?" The bottom line is these guys put in about 20 hours of work per week and they make from $60 to upwards of $150 per hour and the proposed 6-10% raise apparently isn't enough for them. In this economy, CRY ME A RIVER!

    As for the players, the NFL usually fines players for griping about the officiating too much. When the regular season gets here, I expect they should continue that regardless of whether the officials on the field are the new bad officials or the regular bad officials.
     
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  6. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    These replacement officials have been terrible true. Embarrassing at times.

    But GB is right: the regular refs were often horrible as well.
    They cost Seattle a Super Bowl. They screwed Woodson's Raiders whole season with that tuck bogus call vs Brady in 2002. They screwed us when Jerry Rice fumbled.

    They got us 2 years ago in Chicago when they flagged us 18 times, including denying us 2 interceptions and a Finley touchdown.

    Regular refs are bad. And overpaid.
    These refs are horrible. But fairly paid.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  7. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    I heard the "real" officials make an average of $5,000 a game, which would be somewhere around $1250/hr for a 4 hour game. Of course, there's a lot more work than just game time. Travel, preparing, staying sharp, etc. etc. would undoubtedly take a lot of work. Either way, though, it pays pretty well. Relative to what the players make, it's pretty low, though, considering how much of the game the officials actually control.
     
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have never seen a reg ref make same calls or miss the simple ones that the replacement refs have done..
     
  9. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I'm seriously not worried about it.
     
  10. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I think Mike Periera said the officials put in about 20 hours of work per week from about a week before the first preseason game until they're done officiating for the year, then they do about 4 or 5 all-day workshops throughout the offseason.

    I hope you're not making the case that officials should be paid anywhere near what players make.
     
  11. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Examples?
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I posted them and you said
     
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  13. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    The bottom line is that the regular officials are already being paid plenty and have been offered up to a 10% raise. In this economy, anyone looking at 10% should quit their bitching and be grateful for what they have.

    They are NOT as inexpendible as the NFLRA would like you to think. And the media and commentators are making mountains out of molehills to try to sway opinion. Chris Collinsworth has been the worst.

    Oh, and you still haven't given any specific examples. You just posted a bunch of links to people who are clearly on the side of the NFLRA.
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    there is video that shows an example of how horrible they are
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I am not on the side of anyone really...I just dont want a replacement ref making a call that makes the Packers lose..

    Yes I know it can happen with the regular refs too.....But the odds go way up with replacements..

    Do you want a ref to call Benson downed by contact when he is still standing and one player is only grabbing him?

    do you want end of 1st q to end with the Packers pulling a face mask and the ref rule that the Bears have one free play?

    Those happened (with the teams switched) in the examples I provided
     
  16. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Pure conjecture. These officials got thrown into the frying pan on very short notice. It's preseason for them too. They're coming along just fine.

    My issue is with the so-called "professionals" whining about "only" getting a 6-10% raise. Most people would be happy to get a 4% raise right about now. There's nothing special about these guys. They screw up as much as anyone.
     
  17. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    All true and I'm likely in the same frame as mind that you are. However, I completely understand why the refs' want more. The owners and players just fought over billions of dollars and the refs are getting the scraps. This a rich trough and the refs want to get their share of the slop while the gettin's good
     
  18. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    A few questions for the folks that have offered opinions on this topic:
    How much of a compensation package should the refs receive, if indeed they are asking for too much?
    How should their compensation be measured? Against refs from other pro sports?
    Shouldn't the current success of the business enterprise (and not the current economic climate) figure in to whether it is "right" or "acceptable" for the workers to bargain for better wages?
    Are the NFL's revenues declining, and that's why they would like to tighten the belt on this matter?
    I don't know all the answers here, but I disagree with those who automatically reject what the NFLRA is doing simply because it's a union.
    As Ronald Reagan famously said in his 1980 Labor Day address: "...these are the values inspiring those brave workers in Poland … They remind us that where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost."
     
  19. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    I think they're already getting their share. I'm with the NFL on this. Officials, take your 10% raise or watch the games on TV and don't get paid. It's not as if they have special abilities that can't be replaced.
     
  20. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Give me a break. We're not talking about coal miners having their families threatened if they don't work 80 hours per week for $1.25/hour. We're talking about a group of mostly lawyers who are making a lot of money on the side for 5 months out of the year.

    BTW, nobody is trying to take away the NFLRA's ability to bargain/demand whatever they want. But likewise, NFL is under no obligation to simply bow to their every whim either. The NFL has increased their offer for a raise. The NFLRA hasn't budged an inch. They are demanding $400,000/year for referees and umpires. That's just plain ridiculous.

    The longer they hold out, the better the replacements will get and it won't be long before the NFL simply says, "No thanks, we're good."
     
  21. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    Thanks for quoting my questions, but you haven't answered any of them.

    I'm wondering, though: If they're asking for too much, what is fair? And why is it fair? (And by the way, I never stated that they were underpaid.) I'm looking for some reasoning behind some of the comments above.

    Earlier in the thread you stated: "In this economy, anyone looking at 10% should quit their bitching and be grateful for what they have." It's a good thing you're not representing the Packers in any contract extension talks with Aaron Rodgers. The implication is that no matter how successful a business may currently be, because of the poor economy for everyone else, wage increases should be kept lower than they normally would.
    This isn't some mom and pop construction company that's folding up here; this is the recession-proof NFL.
     
  22. GreenBlood

    GreenBlood Banned Banned

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    Better question: Is their current salary+10% UN-fair? If so, by what logic?

    As for demonstrating that their salary IS indeed fair, let's look at the salaries made by other officials.

    The top earners in the NFL get $70,000... or roughly $3200-3500 per game counting preseason and playoffs.

    Highest paid MLB umpires make about $300,000... or roughly $1800 per game.

    The highest paid NBA officials make around $200,000... or about $21oo per game.

    The best NHL officials make about $240,000... or around $2400 per game.

    CLEARLY, the NFL officials are not underpaid. They make more for an afternoon's work than any other sport. The fact that their annual salary is lower is specifically because they have a lower workload. BTW, as noted, these are the salaries of the very best in other sports. Most don't make that much. Basically, the NFLRA is whining because they want Ed Hoculi to make $14,000 per game... or about 500% more per game than the officials in any other sport. And if you want to talk about personal risk, NHL officials are injured at the highest rate by a large margin.

    Apples and oranges. Aaron Rodgers' salary is market-driven. He will be paid what the NFL market dictates his worth to be. There is no competing market driving salaries for NFL officials.
     
  23. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    What are your sources for your numbers stated above? How do the pension plans differ? It's not a simple as you may think it is. I get the impression you take everything the NFL says about this at their word.

    For anyone interested in the referee's side of the story, I suggest looking at these two articles:
    http://www.proplayerinsiders.com/nfl-referees-respond-to-nfl-inaccuracies/
    http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8275139/nfl-wants-reduce-referees-pay-add-three-full-time-crews
    Also check the interesting comment at the end of the espn piece:
    "Coming from a fellow football official, thinking that they only work 3-4 hours a week for 19 weeks is ridiculous. There are countless tests to take and film to study. You can honestly work up to 40-50 hours a week during football season, Let alone around 20 during the offseason. The belly-aching I hear from the union is deplorable but they should get a bit more due to the increase in NFL revenue over the last 10 years. Its called a business for a reason."

    And to address some of the other issues in this thread, here's an amusing piece on the blown calls as of late:
    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1311722-ranking-the-worst-replacement-ref-calls-of-the-preseason
    (But, hey, they're a media outlet so they're pro-union anyway, right?)
     
  24. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Those officials are from non-Division I college football leagues...so to say they were just tossed in, isnt really entirely true..They have real game experience...To bad it isnt with same rules NFL has..

    There will be some growing pains, but they do not have enough time to learn from it...

    The real refs do not screw up like this 2nd rate refs are..yes real refs do screw up...And we have seen it...but to say they screw up like the replacement ones is really wrong..

    I never seen a real ref call a runner down wheile he is still standing and running with only one guy on him.I have never seen real refs call a free play for the offense at the end of the 1st q cuz the d had a penalty

    Mike Pereira...If he thinks they can't handle it, I have to agree with him because he has much more knowledge here...

    I do not even know what the real refs get paid..what they are demanding, what the NFL is offering..I could care less..I just don't want refs to be a reason we have a loss..

    There will be a time that they blow such a bad call (even tho it has happened in preseason) that even the ones on the replacement sides will want them gone..

    GB I am not sure why we are arguing this..I dont care what the real refs are asking or not asking or what ever..I just want the PROS back
     
  25. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Greenblood thinks its okay, cuz the real refs do the same thing

    Please people read the bleacher report...It has video of the bad bad calls..


    For example

    Bear , Denver game

    How about this one?





    ~~~~

    Or this...The Bills downed their punt at the Redskins 5 yard line...But the refs awarded the Redskins the ball at the 20



    Greenblood, you think real refs would make those bad calls?

    It isnt like it is just one blown call..It is happening in almost EVERY EFFING game

    So your okay with a ref giving the ball to the Skins at the 20, cuz the real refs would make same call?
     

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