Many have said we are looking out 1 year. Why? Where are we so weak?

[Do7]

I still think everyone is to optimistic on Aaron Rodgers . Unless he focuses on running plays instead of running the clock out to draw a penalty for free play - no matter who plays with him they will be out of sync. 8-8 best I see unless Rodgers can change his ways.

Change his ways? I swear after one bad year by HIS standards, people tend to be overdramatic as if this has been a serious problem over the past few years. -_-

 

[rmontro]

I still think everyone is to optimistic on Aaron Rodgers . Unless he focuses on running plays instead of running the clock out to draw a penalty for free play - no matter who plays with him they will be out of sync. 8-8 best I see unless Rodgers can change his ways.

While I do think they've gotten a little too cute at times with hoping for a penalty, Rodgers has done better than 8-8 for most of his career. I think his success depends more on his health this year than anything else.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

"excelling?" we're talking adequate. someone who could step in and not be terrible, but be...average or slightly above. i think that's attainable with a qb on a rookie deal. most teams don't have those type back-ups because they don't have qb's on a rookie deals. the one's that do are clearly deeper at most every position unless they choose to stack their team with high quality starters.

I probably should have used equivalent replacement instead of adequate. It's close to impossible to replace elite players with others performing on the same level, therefore a drop-off in play should definitely be expected.

I hope and think that we are better off with a new line coach. A lot better off. A lot of people have said Campen was really good. I think he was part of the overall problem at GB.

The Packers haven't used even close to the draft capital on the offensive line than almost all other teams in the league over Campen's tenure. Considering Thompson didn't use free agency to improve the position either Campen did a marvelous job in my opinion.

Change his ways? I swear after one bad year by HIS standards, people tend to be overdramatic as if this has been a serious problem over the past few years. -_-

While I agree that Rodgers struggled in 2018 by his standards but it might be smart to take a closer look at his stats from last season in which he still had a 97.6 passer rating before criticizing him too much.

 

[brandon2348]

Newhouse? Whatever, but if you go back the last several years and watch Packers games deep into the season you could come away with many different names of guys playing in the secondary or anywhere for that matter but mostly on the defensive side of the ball. The roster was littered with UDFA’s and Thompson just bringing in HIS TYPE OF GUYS which failed us for several years. By the time we got to the playoffs we looked like a JV TEAM.

Now, Everyone is really ramping up and talking Packers with new anticipation with the new coach and all the additions on defense. The MVS party train is starting to get some traction. I actually like MVS but to me he is a poor mans DK Metcalf.

To me we’ve settled for far to long on the offensive side of the ball and I have a deep fear Rodgers might not be able to return to GOD LIKE PLAY LEVEL. He is obviously still the best in the game WHEN HEALTHY.

The Bottom Line is we’re betting on this defense like the Broncos did when they won a Super Bowl with Manning and having massive pass rush. We have the collective pieces to make it work but as i’ve always said you need MANY PIECES to make a top defense work. Lot’s of moving parts. I’m just not sold this defense has enough parts in place to hold up to a 16 game schedule and a playoff run.

I’m telling anyone right now if your betting on this defense you are betting on guys like Kevin King to stay healthy. I’m not betting on this defense right now but would love to change my position.

“Show Me The Baby”! I’ve been waiting almost ten year for it to come out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Bottom Line is we’re betting on this defense like the Broncos did when they won a Super Bowl with Manning and having massive pass rush.

The Packers have a much better offense than the 2015 Broncos and definitely don't rely on their defense to win a Super Bowl as much as Denver did with Manning four years ago.

 

[gbgary]

To me, he's the prototypical average, journeyman offensive lineman. Exactly the person a team would sign for a backup, number 3 swing tackle. If he were younger and/or better, he'd be getting starter money to be a starter somewhere.

i said earlier in this tread that, with all his experience, that's exactly what he is now...but only on the right side of the OL. early on, with the Packers he was below average. pff rates him on the low-side of "average." they also rate our billy taylor on the high-side of "average."
your second point goes for everyone in a backup roll. younger and better wins every time.

 

[mradtke66]

i said earlier in this tread that, with all his experience, that's exactly what he is now...but only on the right side of the OL. early on, with the Packers he was below average. pff rates his on the low side of average. they also rate our billy taylor on the high side of average.

The problem with that view, imho, is that he got more of his playing time sooner after he left the Packers. He was with us for 4 years--we let his contract expire and didn't re-sign him.

I am less inclined to believe that he got better after year 5 and 6 in the NFL. Not appreciably, anyway.

your second point goes for everyone in a backup roll. younger and better wins every time.

And yet, old and below-average Newhouse is still kicking. Why?

My argument isn't necessarily that he's good. Or bad. I'm not actually trying to rate him in that fashion.

I'm just pointing out that there isn't a lot of O-Line depth to be had period. If a team goes looking for a backup in free agency, you're likely to end up with a guy of approximately Newhouse's ability. Players better than that are starters, want to be starters, are paid like starters, etc. If he were legitimately useless, he'd be out of the league. And would have been years ago.

I'm honestly pessimistic about Billy Taylor for just that reason. He might be good, and I sincerely hope he is and that I am wrong.

HOWEVER: If he were good, he wouldn't be on his 4th team in 5 years. Someone should have be been impressed with him and he never would have made it to free agency. His team hopping tells me Dolphins, Ravens, and Broncos all saw him as JAG.

It could just be his injury history. Or playing him out of position as the 6th man. I don't know. It certainly doesn't fill me with confidence.

 

[gbgary]

The problem with that view, imho, is that he got more of his playing time sooner after he left the Packers. He was with us for 4 years--we let his contract expire and didn't re-sign him.

I am less inclined to believe that he got better after year 5 and 6 in the NFL. Not appreciably, anyway.
i believe he played on the left side as a Packer. he plays on the right now. clearly his experience and what time he's had as a starter has served him well and kept him around as a backup. that and his willingness to play for less.

And yet, old and below-average Newhouse is still kicking. Why?

My argument isn't necessarily that he's good. Or bad. I'm not actually trying to rate him in that fashion.

I'm just pointing out that there isn't a lot of O-Line depth to be had period. If a team goes looking for a backup in free agency, you're likely to end up with a guy of approximately Newhouse's ability. Players better than that are starters, want to be starters, are paid like starters, etc. If he were legitimately useless, he'd be out of the league. And would have been years ago.

I'm honestly pessimistic about Billy Taylor for just that reason. He might be good, and I sincerely hope he is and that I am wrong.

HOWEVER: If he were good, he wouldn't be on his 4th team in 5 years. Someone should have be been impressed with him and he never would have made it to free agency. His team hopping tells me Dolphins, Ravens, and Broncos all saw him as JAG.

It could just be his injury history. Or playing him out of position as the 6th man. I don't know. It certainly doesn't fill me with confidence.

not sure how i've found myself defending newhouse as i've never said was good. to his credit he's managed to make himself an average RG (per pff). oline depth, as depth at any position, is going to be guys who hover in the average catagory (at least the guys who are first off the bench). after that it's rookies etc. Packers clearly think taylor's an upgrade from what they had. they have to settle for guys like that with their cap situation.

 

[brandon2348]

The Packers have a much better offense than the 2015 Broncos and definitely don't rely on their defense to win a Super Bowl as much as Denver did with Manning four years ago.

Not by much. Last year the Packer offense was average at best while being inconsistent across the board and in the red zone. McCarthy fell on the sword and now everyone is leaching onto this optimism that a new coach is gonna make it prolific again. THEY DON’T HAVE THE HORSES! If you wanna believe there gonna line up and run people over then fine. It makes for good press conferences excitement. If anyone on here should know it would be you that this offense will once again come down to Aaron Rodgers being Elite.

I have better Fairy Tales to read.

 

[OldSchool101]

The injuries have been pilling up. i would of liked to see the Packers give him more weapons and make a bigger commitment to the offense overall.

hey what’s up Brandon.
That’s a real concern. I do think a healthy Aaron Rodgers elevates the guys around him, but last year was a cluster of Rooks and limited experience combined with Aaron taking a serious blow early, game 1. I don’t see that scenario unfolding again, we just can’t be that unlucky at QB and I believe our OL took a step forward, especially at experience, competition level and depth. I just doubt lightning strikes twice in the same spot.

I still think everyone is to optimistic on Aaron Rodgers .

Too optimistic on Rodgers? I’m assuming you’re serious here.
You obviously are either in denial or have not been watching what #12 is capable of since he set foot on the field. I realize we are internally programmed to doubt stuff, but that one just surprised me. He’s the last of my concerns other than getting him better OL pass protection, which we did upgrade at.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think we are headed for the super bowl this year.

I hope you are right. I just believe we put the building blocks in place to turn the corner. I see us more like that 2009 team ceiling, that still gives us a shot but we’re missing a few puzzle pieces to finish.

First, we desperately need a player to rise opposite Jaire at that CB spot.
2. We could use better play options for Aaron to get that ball out on quicker designed plays, thus reducing his exposure. The TE or RB group needs to improve in the passing arena to assist in this and has been largely underused as of late. This includes red zone production from these 2 groups.
3. We need to see a true #2 WR step into the limelight. Davante will take the #1 CB, but we desperately need the next Jordy to step into the limelight and shine.
4. Someone on that DL needs to rise. Aka Daniels needs a comeback tour, Montravius making a sizeable leap, Keke impressing beyond expectations etc.. someone on that DL needs to take focus off Kenny and if that happens you’ll see a wrecking crew in the backfield.
5. Most important of all will be the ability of Pettine to apply man to man press in conjunction with his exotic blitzes. This is where Dom failed miserably, he sent the blitz packages but then played loose zone and literally forced teams to pick us apart routinely. The secondary needs to compliment the pocket pressure, not playing on an island unto itself.

If we can improve on 4 or 5 of these 5? we will be dangerous. 3 of the 5 will put us into the playoffs.
2 of the 5 will keep us relevant etc..

 

[mradtke66]

they have to settle for guys like that with their cap situation.

I'm not so sure it's a cap "settling" vs a "who is even available to sign" settling.

Compare what we paid for Billy Turner vs what we likely got. A player who has started 25 games in 5 seasons. I'm expecting a Newhouse-ish player and we paid Bryan Bulaga money.

(Again, Billy, if you're reading this, please prove me wrong. I want to be wrong about this.)

 

[brandon2348]

hey what’s up Brandon.
That’s a real concern. I do think a healthy Aaron Rodgers elevates the guys around him, but last year was a cluster of Rooks and limited experience combined with Aaron taking a serious blow early, game 1. I don’t see that scenario unfolding again, we just can’t be that unlucky at QB and I believe our OL took a step forward, especially at experience, competition level and depth. I just doubt lightning strikes twice in the same spot.
at.

Not much. Trying to get excited about this season and getting ready to be able to attend a good portion of training camp that I can which will hopefully help.

Yes. Aaron Rodgers has a Michael Jordan type of effect on his teammates.

Not sure about lightning in the bottle with Rodgers and his injuries. See link below.

https://sportsinjurypredictor.com/player/aaron-rodgers/2636

Actually my biggest concern of the season is Rodgers staying healthy. In fact if he has to hold onto the ball too long again because this group of 3rd/4th tier weapons(outside of Adams) can’t get open I predict another injury.

We had a major opportunity to get some serious weaponry this offseason and it was completely IGNORERED other then a 3rd round pick at TE and a late round flier on a RB(who I actually really like) but not even close enough to what we need. This “BIG SLOT ********” is a pipe dream. We don’t have all the pieces to make that work. LaFleur can yap all he wants about running the football and Scheme scheme scheme but you still need the players.

We have sold ourselves out and mortgaged out everything for this defense to be elite and that’s the play. ONLY HOPE!

It could be a real bumpy ride.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not by much. Last year the Packer offense was average at best while being inconsistent across the board and in the red zone.

It seems you don't have any idea how bad the Broncos offense was in 2015. Peyton Manning combined to throw for 11 touchdowns while throwing 18 interceptions in total that year. While the Packers definitely need to improve on that side of the ball over last season the unit is significantly better than the one the Broncos won the title with four years ago.

 

[gbgary]

It seems you don't have any idea how bad the Broncos offense was in 2015. Peyton Manning combined to throw for 11 touchdowns while throwing 18 interceptions in total that year. While the Packers definitely need to improve on that side of the ball over last season the unit is significantly better than the one the Broncos won the title with four years ago.

huh? the 2018 packers averaged 1.31 points-per-game more than the 2015 broncos, 13.56 more yards-per-game, 5.8 yards-per-play vs 5.4 for the broncos, during the regular season. i wouldn't call that "significant."

 

[brandon2348]

huh? the 2018 packers averaged 1.31 points-per-game more than the 2015 broncos, 13.56 more yards-per-game, 5.8 yards-per-play vs 5.4 for the broncos, during the regular season. i wouldn't call that "significant."

I just think a lot of Packer fans are LIVING IN THE PAST about the offense. There was a time our offense was so explosive and teams feared us. We had defenses on there heals and literally wore them down with our passing game. Nobody fears us anymore. The whole thing now is tied to the development of MVS(day 3 pick) and Kummerow (UDFA) to get us back to dominance. Nice prospects but hardly the investment needed to really make it happen.

We have wasted the career of one of the greatest talents of all time to pure ignorance and a lot of stubbornness. Sometimes you gotta look in the mirror and get honest and accept who you are. Once that is done you can make what you see in the mirror the best it can possibly be. Somewhere we lost who we are and now it might be to late.

2011 was the GOLD STANDARD. No, we did not win a Super Bowl that year but I will take 15-1 and a bye and home field advantage throughout the playoffs ALL DAY LONG over the CLOWN SHOW and the LOSING it has become.

 

[gopkrs]

So I disagreed that our offense is tied to Kummerow and MVS. I believe it was McCarthy. And he is gone.

 

[OldSchool101]

Here’s a recent article from today that’s an interesting angle. The only thing I would add to it is I believe it takes more like 2 dominant talents at each position group, except maybe QB etc..

That’s why I wrote that earlier projection of what it will take to expedite a SB run this season Vs 2020.
We need a few young players to rise in conjunction with veterans (Bak, Rodgers, Clark,,etc) playing as expected. 1 ain’t gonna cut it, especially when factoring injury into the equation.
https://lombardiave.com/2019/07/17/packers-stars-key-positions-cbs-sports-agrees/

 

[brandon2348]

So I disagreed that our offense is tied to Kummerow and MVS. I believe it was McCarthy. And he is gone.

Then what happens when Adams pulls up with a bad ankle? Or Rodgers has another soft tissue injury? Allison(who is very average) isn’t exactly the poster child of great health? Trevor Davis? You mean Mr. High School Body?

THAT’S RiGHT! Your gonna have Kummerow and MVS running around out there showing there NOT GAME CHANGERS and certainly can’t carry the load.

On top of that how many weeks do you give Bulaga this year? Does he even make it out of training camp? Who in the hell is gonna keep Rodgers clean from the right side then?

Aaron Jones hasn’t proven he can play an entire season either. Here comes AVERAGE J. Williams.

Jimmie Graham? He can’t separate from an old lady. The only chance we had with him was to get some short area speed/quickness in the slot to keep him more clean and give him a chance.

There is so much glass out there I don’t know if we have enough brooms to clean it all up. You really believe because we’re gonna run an LA Rams type scheme that it’s gonna cover all this up? That Rams offense had studs all over the place.

What we have is a malnutrition of legitimate developed NFL talent on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[brandon2348]

People think because Brady and Brees have been playing well in there late 30’s and 40’s that Rodgers is a given to do the same. He might but he is gonna do it somewhere else after the debacle this season.

Both the Saints and the Pats have given those guys very very good O-Lines and better weapons across the board. Watch the tape. Bree’s and Brady hardly ever even get touched. They have also both been given good running games. Rodgers is at that stage where we can’t have him getting even touched that much anymore.

We could have that in place right now but nooooooo, were on a ten year plan to build a Championship Defense that’s probably never gonna happen.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

huh? the 2018 packers averaged 1.31 points-per-game more than the 2015 broncos, 13.56 more yards-per-game, 5.8 yards-per-play vs 5.4 for the broncos, during the regular season. i wouldn't call that "significant."

There's no doubt the Packers offense struggled last season but they were significantly better than the 2015 Broncos' unit. You have to realize that the Denver defense scored six touchdowns four years ago compared to Green Bay's one.

In addition take a look at these numbers comparing the two teams:

Yards per drive: GB 12th DEN 24th
Points per drive: GB 18th DEN 24th
Turnovers per drive: GB 1st DEN 28th
Interceptions per drive: GB 1st DEN 31st
Punts per drive: GB 17th DEN 22nd
3-and-outs per drive: GB 13th DEN 30th
Points per red zone appearance: GB 11th DEN 22nd
Touchdowns per red zone appearance: GB 13th DEN 28th

While the Packers featured a mediocre offense last season the Broncos offense was probably the worst to ever win a Super Bowl. Therefore I stand by my thought that Green Bay's offense is significantly better than Denver's unit four years ago.

Then what happens when Adams pulls up with a bad ankle? Or Rodgers has another soft tissue injury? Allison(who is very average) isn’t exactly the poster child of great health? Trevor Davis? You mean Mr. High School Body?

THAT’S RiGHT! Your gonna have Kummerow and MVS running around out there showing there NOT GAME CHANGERS and certainly can’t carry the load.

Allison was on pace for a 1,000 yards season in 2018 before suffering a season ending injury. If he stays healthy there's reason to believe he will develop into a decent #2 receiver.

 

[gopkrs]

Then what happens when Adams pulls up with a bad ankle? Or Rodgers has another soft tissue injury? Allison(who is very average) isn’t exactly the poster child of great health? Trevor Davis? You mean Mr. High School Body?

THAT’S RiGHT! Your gonna have Kummerow and MVS running around out there showing there NOT GAME CHANGERS and certainly can’t carry the load.

On top of that how many weeks do you give Bulaga this year? Does he even make it out of training camp? Who in the hell is gonna keep Rodgers clean from the right side then?

Aaron Jones hasn’t proven he can play an entire season either. Here comes AVERAGE J. Williams.

Jimmie Graham? He can’t separate from an old lady. The only chance we had with him was to get some short area speed/quickness in the slot to keep him more clean and give him a chance.

There is so much glass out there I don’t know if we have enough brooms to clean it all up. You really believe because we’re gonna run an LA Rams type scheme that it’s gonna cover all this up? That Rams offense had studs all over the place.

What we have is a malnutrition of legitimate developed NFL talent on the offensive side of the ball.

About injuries...you can say that about every team in the NFL. I see no reason to be pessimistic. The Pack are back!

 

[Do7]

About injuries...you can say that about every team in the NFL. I see no reason to be pessimistic. The Pack are back!

I like this guy's attitude!

 

[mongoosev]

I can't make any predictions on how good we will be but I can be certain what I will have for dinner.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, that's a start.