Lazard Situation...

[McKnowledge]

I don't know if the Packers pursued any high profile free agents at wide receiver but I didn't get the impression Gutekunst was all that much interested in spending a huge amount of money on a FA at the position.

Fair enough. Gute is the gm. That's his decision.

I can certainly understand Gute's position last year, especially with Adams on the roster, along with re-signing players for the offseason.

That doesn't negate there was interest from the Packer's organization in the first place, otherwise how could you get the impression that the price was too high.

That sounds like preliminary negotitions.

Negotiation = Interest

 

[OldSchool101]

Fair enough. Gute is the gm. That's his decision.

I can certainly understand Gute's position last year, especially with Adams on the roster, along with re-signing players for the offseason.

That doesn't negate there was interest from the Packer's organization in the first place, otherwise how could you get the impression that the price was too high.

That sounds like preliminary negotitions.

Negotiation = Interest

There may be interest again unless our Offense gets in better rhythm.

 

[McKnowledge]

There may be interest again unless our Offense gets in better rhythm.

I agree.

While I personally believe that OBJ will not be 100% at any point during this season, if the WR corp doesn't progress, why not call him up?

There is also a mental/morale factor that should be considered.

Who is the leader in the WR room?

Adams was THE man, he set the tone, other players found him aspirational.

I think OBJ could provide that same element, he would instantly make other WRs "step their game up".

There is almost reverence amongst young players when around their legends.

 

[OldSchool101]

I agree.

While I personally believe that OBJ will not be 100% at any point during this season, if the WR corp doesn't progress, why not call him up?

There is also a mental/morale factor that should be considered.

Who is the leader in the WR room?

Adams was THE man, he set the tone, other players found him aspirational.

I think OBJ could provide that same element, he would instantly make other WRs "step their game up".

There is almost reverence amongst young players when around their legends.

When you look at these other teams playing. You just tend to see better (more seasoned) Receiving targets. Now I have no reservations that Watson or Doubs will be good, but how fast can we get them performing at a high level? If we don’t see a substantial difference with Lazard back and 1 of those 2 Rookies stepping up, I think we should look outside for veteran help. Especially if it’s an affordable 1/2 year rental.
If we had another veteran WR, I’d consider putting Watson on KR and allowing him to gradually get more involved in the Offense at a more measured pace. I think he can be pretty good by playoffs, but Christian has had limited time in this Offense as a primary target. Easy him in

 

[McKnowledge]

When you look at these other teams playing. You just tend to see better (more seasoned) Receiving targets. Now I have no reservations that Watson or Doubs will be good, but how fast can we get them performing at a high level? If we don’t see a substantial difference with Lazard back and 1 of those 2 Rookies stepping up, I think we should look outside for veteran help. Especially if it’s an affordable 1/2 year rental.
If we had another veteran WR, I’d consider putting Watson on KR and allowing him to gradually get more involved in the Offense at a more measured pace. I think he can be pretty good by playoffs, but Christian has had limited time in this Offense as a primary target. Easy him in

I completely agree and I have maintained this stance consistenly since joining this forum.

I don't think Sammy Watkins was the right veteran to bring in.

I like him. He says and does the right things...but results matter.

This is a results based league.

I was hoping GB could pull Julio Jones in. Nope.

I would still advocate for Will Fuller getting a chance.

Ultimately its up to the people "writing the checks".

But even with Adams, GB was negligent in supplementing the WR corps with talent.

Players with high characteristics are great, no doubt, but...THIS IS A RESULTS BASED INDUSTRY!!!

Morality can sometimes get in the way of success.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Even with injury and (heavily biased) perception of OBJ, the 3 men below certainly add to OBJ being a high profile agent. ↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓↓

My point is that a high profile free agent wide receiver doesn't sign for a $500K signing bonus and a base salary of $750K. It seems the Packers offered even less money.

How difficult is/was he when not 1 but 2 teams traded for him?

The Browns were the only team to trade for OBJ but ended up moving on from him after only 2 1/2 years.

The Browns...well...Jimmy Haslem is the owner. He has no clue. He chose Baker Mayfield over OBJ.

Do you honestly suggest the Browns should have drafted OBJ first overall?

If indeed the league agreed he was dificult to handle (insert jerking motion), then he wouldn't have signed with LAR after meeting with and receiving attention from other teams.

Furthermore, your statement is YOUR opinion. Not based on factual evidence.

Outside of a 1 game suspenson nearly 7 years ago, OBJ hasn't had any trouble with the league.

The dislike for OBJ...it is what it is...but it shouldn't cloud the facts.

If/when healthy...OBJ will be highly coveted.

OBJ taking the Giants' entire wide receiving corps on a boat trip to Miami during the week leading up to a playoff game in Green Bay should be considered a red flag as well.

Once again, if teams around the league considered him a high profile free agent at least one of them would have offered him a decent contract once the Browns waived him or signed him this offseason.

That doesn't negate there was interest from the Packer's organization in the first place, otherwise how could you get the impression that the price was too high.

It's true the Packers were interested in OBJ but other than that it seems they were hardly in the market for a free agent wide receiver in the past.

There may be interest again unless our Offense gets in better rhythm.

True, although I believe OBJ will re-sign with the Rams once he's healthy.

Who is the leader in the WR room?

Adams was THE man, he set the tone, other players found him aspirational.

I think OBJ could provide that same element, he would instantly make other WRs "step their game up".

I'm not sure I want OBJ to be the leader in the wide receiver room.

I think he can be pretty good by playoffs, but Christian has had limited time in this Offense as a primary target. Easy him in

There might not be any playoffs for the Packers if the receiving corps doesn't improve fast.

 

[McKnowledge]

My point is that a high profile free agent wide receiver doesn't sign for a $500K signing bonus and a base salary of $750K. It seems the Packers offered even less money.

Just confirming. YOUR definition of a high profile free agent is only related to money?!
So legacy, production, and the brand doesn't tie into a player's profile?

The Browns were the only team to trade for OBJ but ended up moving on from him after only 2 1/2 years.

No, the Browns were the team that "won" the right to trade for OBJ. They were the last team standing after offering the best trade package to the Giants.

Do you honestly suggest the Browns should have drafted OBJ first overall?

Stop playing with me. Lol. Clearly the Browns chose Baker Mayfield over OBJ after releasing him in 2021. Mayfield (2018) and OBJ (2014) were not in the same draft class.

OBJ taking the Giants' entire wide receiving corps on a boat trip to Miami during the week leading up to a playoff game in Green Bay should be considered a red flag as well.

Once again, if teams around the league considered him a high profile free agent at least one of them would have offered him a decent contract once the Browns waived him or signed him this offseason.

That was a horrible decision. OBJ was young in 2015 and thought inviting his teammates on a short trip was a good idea. Bad timing and bad results. If the Giants had won, the narrative would be different.

Sir, OBJ was released during the season. The Browns paid him 4M per his release, the last remnant of his Giants deal. He chose a good team, signed, performed well, and won a Super Bowl.

If he didn't get hurt after posting good numbers in...a Super Bowl win, he would've gotten a huge deal.

OBJ > Browns

It's true the Packers were interested in OBJ but other than that it seems they were hardly in the market for a free agent wide receiver in the past.

Lol. Julio Jones signs with Buccaneers after interest from Packe

I'm not sure I want OBJ to be the leader in the wide receiver room.

I'm not sure I want you as my captain. Lol.

 

[swhitset]

Thanks. So it seems Cook just wanted out of GB and it wasn't about the money. I don't remember what GB gave Bennett. I think it was $6 mil/year for 3 years, all guaranteed. I recall they were chasing him to get money back after he quit.

No that was not it all. He publicly stated he very much wanted to return… he and his agent had a particular idea of what his value was and apparently guessed incorrectly… when they rejected the Packers offer they apparently thought they had some leverage to get more. Instead the Packers went out and signed Bennet for similar money. Cook was eventually forced to sign with the Raiders because he and his agent were wrong about his perceived value at that time on the open market. I would say the whole thing was a mistake by both sides.

 

[swhitset]

Someone else tell him this, cuz he blocked/ignored me for zero reason the other day.

I did without realizing you were blocked lol.

 

[swhitset]

I completely agree and I have maintained this stance consistenly since joining this forum.

I don't think Sammy Watkins was the right veteran to bring in.

I like him. He says and does the right things...but results matter.

This is a results based league.

I was hoping GB could pull Julio Jones in. Nope.

I would still advocate for Will Fuller getting a chance.

Ultimately its up to the people "writing the checks".

But even with Adams, GB was negligent in supplementing the WR corps with talent.

Players with high characteristics are great, no doubt, but...THIS IS A RESULTS BASED INDUSTRY!!!

Morality can sometimes get in the way of success.

That depends entirely on how you define success.

 

[OldSchool101]

That depends entirely on how you define success.

I swear I said the exact same thing but got busy and forgot to respond.
I was wondering how my comment got tagged with your name

 

[McKnowledge]

That depends entirely on how you define success

Success

 

[OldSchool101]

Success

Key words in its definition

Measure: Estimation or Assessment of the quality, value or effect
Favorable: (operable root of Favor)
An act of kindness beyond what is expected (grace)


So in essence we can say success is the Asssessment of a value that is beyond deserved.

Success is totally subjective. What one person assesses as a success, another may deem as failure.
However, by your own, supplied definition. Success is essentially a measurement of grace. I would argue a common modern day interpretation is strictly monetary. That does not involve courteous Goodwill, elegance and refinement. There is nothing elegant, Refined or courteous about abusing or diminishing virtue/morality in order to gain money.

So really success is in effect operating in a moral or virtuous fashion In attaining a surplus past expectation (monetary is just one of many examples) Success is not devoid of morality, it’s defined by it.
Todays common misinterpretation of success being “hindered by morality” is cunningly inaccurate.

Success here could be getting 3 of our 4 injured status players suddenly suited up, which is beyond expectation (getting there) But doing so properly, such as not putting said player in a compromising situation (by what approach or method)

 

[McKnowledge]

So in essence we can say success is the Asssessment of a value that is beyond deserved.

Based on your supplied defintion.

Success is totally subjective. What one person assesses as a success, another may deem as failure.

So what are we talking about?

There is nothing elegant, Refined or courteous about abusing or diminishing virtue/morality in order to gain money.

Where is it stated that virute or morality is a tenet of success regardless of interpretation?

So really success is in effect operating in a moral or virtuous fashion In attaining a surplus past expectation (monetary is just one of many examples) Success is not devoid of morality, it’s defined by it.
Todays common misinterpretation of success being “hindered by morality” is cunningly inaccurate.

Success here could be getting 3 of our 4 injured status players suddenly suited up, which is beyond expectation (getting there) But doing so properly, such as not putting said player in a compromising situation (by what approach or method)

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Success is totally subjective. What one person assesses as a success, another may deem as failure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Just confirming. YOUR definition of a high profile free agent is only related to money?!
So legacy, production, and the brand doesn't tie into a player's profile?

My definiton doesn't matter. There's enough evidence out there that teams in the league didn't consider OBJ a high profile free agent after he was waived by the Browns or during this offseason. That's actuall all there is to know.

No, the Browns were the team that "won" the right to trade for OBJ. They were the last team standing after offering the best trade package to the Giants.

True, that doesn't change the fact that only one team ever traded for OBJ.

Stop playing with me. Lol. Clearly the Browns chose Baker Mayfield over OBJ after releasing him in 2021. Mayfield (2018) and OBJ (2014) were not in the same draft class.

My bad, I didn't even think about in which year both of them were drafted.

I'm not sure you're right about the Browns choosing Mayfield over OBJ as they moved on from him only months later as well.

Sir, OBJ was released during the season. The Browns paid him 4M per his release, the last remnant of his Giants deal.

I'm well aware that OBJ was waived during the season. No team was interested in claiming him via waivers though.

In addition the Browns moving on from him despite having to pay him should tell you they didn't consider him a high profile player anymore either.

Lol. Julio Jones signs with Buccaneers after interest from Packe

Once again, not a high profile wide receiver at this point in his career anymore.

I'm not sure I want you as my captain. Lol.

I don't want to be your captain.

 

[longtimefan]

Lazard should be playing

 

[OldSchool101]

Lazard should be playing

I never thought I’d be so happy to have Allen Lazard suiting up. Lol

 

[GreenNGold_81]

We'll see if he commands the 10+ targets that went to Adams, or if Rodgers actually spreads it around.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We'll see if he commands the 10+ targets that went to Adams, or if Rodgers actually spreads it around.

It seems like Rodgers actually spreads the ball around pretty well if he doesn't have an elite receiver at his disposal.

 

[Mondio]

It seems like Rodgers actually spreads the ball around pretty well if he doesn't have an elite receiver at his disposal.

He always has, even with them at his disposal. There's almost 2 decades of evidence of rodgers throwing to multiple receivers, throwing over the middle, hitting deep, hitting short, holding the ball to go deep, having one of the quickest releases and passing game in the business etc. He's literally shown us all he can run the timing offense, scan a field as well and quickly as the best of them. Has great anticipation, understands defenses and can spread it around. And every season, it seems someone wants to tell us he can't do one of them.

Why, because he threw it to Devante a lot last year? People act like Moss didn't get 10 targets a game with Brady, or Cooper Kupp doesn't get 10-15 or more targets per game. Or Julio Jones didn't have 10-15 targets per game in his hay day. Or Tyrek Hill, or Justin Jefferson, or Chris Godwin playing on a team with 2 other legit receivers RB and legit TE's LOL People act like he shouldn't have thrown it to Devante, well just because.

 

[gopkrs]

It just seemed like he forced the ball to Devante during crunch time. Can't do that anymore. Was not the best we could have played last night but definitely on the right track.

 

[PackAttack12]

Question just occurred to me and I know it may not be part of the thread topic, but did anyone really expect anything different out of this offense out of the gate? Cuz I sure didn’t. It’s in its infant stage with these kids. I found it funny actually when Watson dropped that friggin pass. It’s like, well that was supposed to happen lol! What DID concern me was our defense getting handled how they did with all this hoopla surrounding it. I assume they’ll get in a groove but I was very disappointed out the gate.

I agree to an extent. I don't necessarily think you 'expect' the rookie to drop a perfectly thrown ball for what would've been a no doubt walk in touchdown. But in the same breath, you definitely have to bake in an expectation of showing some patience for those guys. Doubs and Watson will continue to get opportunities in the coming games, and we can only hope it pays some dividends around or after thanksgiving.

 

[PackAttack12]

He always has, even with them at his disposal. There's almost 2 decades of evidence of rodgers throwing to multiple receivers, throwing over the middle, hitting deep, hitting short, holding the ball to go deep, having one of the quickest releases and passing game in the business etc. He's literally shown us all he can run the timing offense, scan a field as well and quickly as the best of them. Has great anticipation, understands defenses and can spread it around. And every season, it seems someone wants to tell us he can't do one of them.

Why, because he threw it to Devante a lot last year? People act like Moss didn't get 10 targets a game with Brady, or Cooper Kupp doesn't get 10-15 or more targets per game. Or Julio Jones didn't have 10-15 targets per game in his hay day. Or Tyrek Hill, or Justin Jefferson, or Chris Godwin playing on a team with 2 other legit receivers RB and legit TE's LOL People act like he shouldn't have thrown it to Devante, well just because.

I always enjoy hearing crickets when quality posts like the above are presented.

 

[swhitset]

I always enjoy hearing crickets when quality posts like the above are presented.

Most of the people that would probably disagree with that post don’t have the reading comprehension or attention span necessary to get through it lol.

 

[gopkrs]

Most of the people that would probably disagree with that post don’t have the reading comprehension or attention span necessary to get through it lol.

Bummer