Last Word on Mike McCathy

[felix145]

The sample size is way too small as Jones has pass blocked on only five of his snaps.

PFF's numbers are based on a way too small sample size as Jones has only been used in pass protection five times this season. Last season they graded him at 46.3 in that area on 34 snaps, in my opinion representing more accurate data on his ability to protect Rodgers.

Thanks for the info. Didn't know that.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

PFF's numbers are based on a way too small sample size as Jones has only been used in pass protection five times this season. Last season they graded him at 46.3 in that area on 34 snaps, in my opinion representing more accurate data on his ability to protect Rodgers.

While I agree that the sample size is small I don't think that taking a guy's rookie year as more representative is very fair. I would imagine he improved in that area. I like PFF grades (a lot) but I think rather than looking at absolute ranks I would just take their current grade on his pass blocking as an indicator that he's not a bad pass blocker this year; not that he's elite, but that he's not a detriment.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I feel like this topic name is unrealistically optimistic.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Rodgers being injured since the first quarter of week 1 is a valid excuse for the offense not performing at an elite level. While it might be smart to run the ball more often the offense will always center around throwing the ball as long as #12 is playing. In addition it doesn't make sense to run the ball being down by 24 at halftime.

This team has too much talent to not have scored more than 24 points on offense even with an injured Rodgers. An injured Aaron Rodgers is still better than more than half the QBs in the league.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While I agree that the sample size is small I don't think that taking a guy's rookie year as more representative is very fair. I would imagine he improved in that area. I like PFF grades (a lot) but I think rather than looking at absolute ranks I would just take their current grade on his pass blocking as an indicator that he's not a bad pass blocker this year; not that he's elite, but that he's not a detriment.

In my opinion the Packers have to use Jones in pass protection more often before anyone should make an evaluation on him having improved in that area.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This team has too much talent to not have scored more than 24 points on offense even with an injured Rodgers. An injured Aaron Rodgers is still better than more than half the QBs in the league.

Crosby missing five kicks which would have resulted in 13 points might have had something to do with it.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Only last word around here will be Mike McCarthy laughing his butt off at the OP when the Pack roars off to a division-winning 11-4-1 record.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Crosby missing five kicks which would have resulted in 13 points might have had something to do with it.

You're right. ONE game scoring more than 24 points on offense destroys my entire point. I am ashamed I even mentioned it.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

In my opinion the Packers have to use Jones in pass protection more often before anyone should make an evaluation on him having improved in that area.

I certainly agree. I'm only saying that rookies generally do poorly in pass protection and that they generally improve in that area over time. For that reason I would tend to imagine that he's better this year than last.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

My biggest beef with Mike is that overall the team is trending in the wrong direction and he doesn't seem able to stop it. I think he should relinquish plays to Philbin or at the very least have Philbin draw up some better plays. I was listening to satellite radio's fantasy football channel and the host mentioned that Mike's scheme has the dumbest route trees he's seen - he said maybe it's so to avoid receiver errors. I think we need a true offensive mind to come in because we're wasting Rodgers prime. I'm fine with Pettine for at least another year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In my opinion the Packers have to use Jones in pass protection more often before anyone should make an evaluation on him having improved in that area.

I would say he needs more carries as well, before declaring him a solid back. I look back at Monty and his first few games as a RB and how excited some got. I'm not saying Jones isn't a good back, but way too early (105 carries) into his career to get too excited about him. People who have this notion that if you keep feeding him the ball, he will pick up 6.1 yds each time, are fooling themselves. All 3 of the current Packer RB's have a chance to rip off a nice run periodically to boost their stats and its mainly due to the way the Packer offense is being defensed against. Change that offense to a run oriented offense and I don't see us having the OL or RB's to do a whole lot.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would say he needs more carries as well, before declaring him a solid back. I look back at Monty and his first few games as a RB and how excited some got. I'm not saying Jones isn't a good back, but way too early (105 carries) into his career to get too excited about him. People who have this notion that if you keep feeding him the ball, he will pick up 6.1 yds each time, are fooling themselves. All 3 of the current Packer RB's have a chance to rip off a nice run periodically to boost their stats and its mainly due to the way the Packer offense is being defensed against. Change that offense to a run oriented offense and I don't see us having the OL or RB's to do a whole lot.

I'm a big fan of Aaron Jones and someone that firmly believes he needs to be on the field more than any other RB on this team (not the least amount of time) but I don't think anyone actually believes he'll average 6.1 ypc with more work. I think most reasonable fans feel like he'll average significantly more than Williams' 3.7 ypc while providing much more of a big play threat.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm a big fan of Aaron Jones and someone that firmly believes he needs to be on the field more than any other RB on this team (not the least amount of time) but I don't think anyone actually believes he'll average 6.1 ypc with more work. I think most reasonable fans feel like he'll average significantly more than Williams' 3.7 ypc while providing much more of a big play threat.

I tend to agree with you that right now, AJ looks like a RB that may have the ability to pick up an additional yard or two over Williams, but is that going to be enough to win games, especially if Williams is the better pass blocker? Right now, I don't see Jones as being a 25 carry a game guy who averages 5+ yards per. He is going to get more snaps and will be given the ability to prove himself, but I don't have a problem with Williams getting snaps, especially when the team is forced into having to pass like they were against Detroit.

The game tonight, might be the perfect time to feed Jones the ball and see what he can do. The 49'ers have a decent run defense, but they have given up 29 points/game, so fingers crossed for a quick start by the Packer offense!

 

[brandon2348]

The "narrative" is about to change.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The "narrative" is about to change.

What?? Did we trade for AP!!!??

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I tend to agree with you that right now, AJ looks like a RB that may have the ability to pick up an additional yard or two over Williams, but is that going to be enough to win games, especially if Williams is the better pass blocker? Right now, I don't see Jones as being a 25 carry a game guy who averages 5+ yards per. He is going to get more snaps and will be given the ability to prove himself, but I don't have a problem with Williams getting snaps, especially when the team is forced into having to pass like they were against Detroit.

The game tonight, might be the perfect time to feed Jones the ball and see what he can do. The 49'ers have a decent run defense, but they have given up 29 points/game, so fingers crossed for a quick start by the Packer offense!

No, an extra yard per carry isn't going to win games (especially when you only get 7 carries!) but, the theory goes, with a more threatening running back in the backfield the offense will have more room to work since the defense will have to take run more seriously. Right now I don't know why any defense would see Williams in the backfield and think, "Uh-ok, we better get an 8th guy down into the box!" Put Jones in there and that might start to become something coordinators need to look for. Plus I don't know why a linebacker would jump on the play-action to Williams but they might with Jones. Just theory though, like the one that says put the best players on the field.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

What?? Did we trade for AP!!!??

I'm hoping we traded for Lynch 8 years too late!

 

[BrokenArrow]

There isn't enough time on the clock to run the ball down by 24.

Sure there is. I've seen teams do it too many times to count. A complete pass runs time off the clock just as much as a run does. If you're averaging 4-5 yards per carry, you can certainly run. In fact, you must run if you want to keep the defense from sitting back in a zone while applying maximum pressure to the QB every play. You're not going to win by doing nothing but passing either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You're right. ONE game scoring more than 24 points on offense destroys my entire point. I am ashamed I even mentioned it.

The Packers having had a great offense for the majority of the past 12+ seasons results in your point not being a valid one. The unit struggling for parts of five games early this season doesn't change anything about it.

I certainly agree. I'm only saying that rookies generally do poorly in pass protection and that they generally improve in that area over time. For that reason I would tend to imagine that he's better this year than last.

I'm not convinced most second year running backs significantly improve in pass protection over their rookie campaigns.

Right now I don't know why any defense would see Williams in the backfield and think, "Uh-ok, we better get an 8th guy down into the box!" Put Jones in there and that might start to become something coordinators need to look for. Plus I don't know why a linebacker would jump on the play-action to Williams but they might with Jones.

With Rodgers at quarterback most opponents don't dare to put eight defenders in the box anyway. Williams (9.7) has averaged significantly more yards per reception than Jones (4.8) over their careers so far.

Sure there is. I've seen teams do it too many times to count.

Really??? Only two teams have won games in which they trailed by at least 24 points at halftime over the past 12+ years.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Really??? Only two teams have won games in which they trailed by at least 24 points at halftime over the past 12+ years.

Yes. Really.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes. Really.

It would be great if you could come up with at least a single example, would make your claim credible.

 

[BrokenArrow]

It would be great if you could come up with at least a single example, would make your claim credible.

It would also be great if you could fact check yourself to make your claim credible.

October 15, 2012: Broncos trailed Chargers 24-0 at half in San Diego, won 35-24, Broncos rushed 12 times after being down 24
November 24, 2013: Patriots trailed Broncos 24-0 at half in New England, won 34-31, Patriots rushed 12 times after being down 24
October 2, 2011: Lions trailed Cowboys 27-3 in 3rd in Dallas, won 34-30, Lions rushed 10 times after being down 24 with 12:27 in the 3rd
January 4, 2014: Colts trailed Chiefs 38-10 in 3rd in Indianapolis, won 45-44, Colts rushed 8 times after being down by 28
February, 5 2017: Patriots trailed Falcons 28-3 in 3rd in SB 51, Patriots won 34-28, Patriots rushed 8 times after being down 25 half way through the 3rd

And these are just in the last 6 years. The point is NONE of these teams ditched their running game. Yeah, they passed a lot more than they ran, but they didn't ditch it. Not sure where you get the idea that you can't run anymore down 24 points at half time.

 

[BrokenArrow]

I'm not convinced most second year running backs significantly improve in pass protection over their rookie campaigns.

Okay, based on...? Or are you just making a declaration here? I'd be interested in knowing the evidence for this.

 

[Mondio]

Okay, based on...? Or are you just making a declaration here? I'd be interested in knowing the evidence for this.

I'll assume you watched the game last night. 9er's were blitzing, Williams stepped up nicely and took on one and stopped him and chipped the other while stopping 1. Both coming right up the middle. And he caught his passes in the passing game. Jones, obvious blitz coming, does not pick up the unblocked guy we can all see coming off the edge, instead carries out his fake into the line doing nothing and leaving Rodgers out to dry. it was either the bears or Vikings, Similar play except Williams took his fake and then peeled off to re-route a free blitzer.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It would also be great if you could fact check yourself to make your claim credible.

October 15, 2012: Broncos trailed Chargers 24-0 at half in San Diego, won 35-24, Broncos rushed 12 times after being down 24
November 24, 2013: Patriots trailed Broncos 24-0 at half in New England, won 34-31, Patriots rushed 12 times after being down 24
October 2, 2011: Lions trailed Cowboys 27-3 in 3rd in Dallas, won 34-30, Lions rushed 10 times after being down 24 with 12:27 in the 3rd
January 4, 2014: Colts trailed Chiefs 38-10 in 3rd in Indianapolis, won 45-44, Colts rushed 8 times after being down by 28
February, 5 2017: Patriots trailed Falcons 28-3 in 3rd in SB 51, Patriots won 34-28, Patriots rushed 8 times after being down 25 half way through the 3rd

And these are just in the last 6 years. The point is NONE of these teams ditched their running game. Yeah, they passed a lot more than they ran, but they didn't ditch it. Not sure where you get the idea that you can't run anymore down 24 points at half time.

The Packers didn't ditch their rushing game completely vs. the Lions either, running the ball six times in the second half. It should be pretty obvious to everyone that teams trailing by a huge margin are forced to primarily throw the ball though.

BTW as I was solely looking for teams trailing by at least 24 at the halftime my facts were correct.