Kraft or Musgrave

[El Guapo]

Musgrave was the higher draft pick, had the better showing in training camp, and was the starter at the beginning of the season. Then he got hurt and Tucker Kraft had to step up, and boy did he ever. When both on the field in the playoffs, this offense became very effective.

Tucker Kraft

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Luke Musgrave

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Similar stats and similar faces, although Musgrave has the better mustache. Who do you think will have the better sophomore season, or do you think they will compliment each other perfectly and have roughly the same stats again?

Discuss

 

[Bingo_Arms]

I am a full believer in your last statement and how they compliment each other. I really think they are two different types of tight ends. Kraft is a more physically imposing target and I see Musgrave as a guy that is faster and can stretch the field. I love both of these additions to the offence though and thought they both made a really positive impact regularly.

 

[tynimiller]

Similar stats and similar faces, although Musgrave has the better mustache. Who do you think will have the better sophomore season, or do you think they will compliment each other perfectly and have roughly the same stats again?

Discuss

I would need for the discussion to know what exactly 'better' means for the discussion? I expect Musgrave to fully have more production in yards unless he misses significant time again...but I still don't see him ever developing into a true complete package like Kraft may - just isn't his skillset and physical make up. Kraft can become a guy like a baby Gronk style where Musgrave is more of a Jimmy Graham/Kelce type. Truthfully if they both keep excelling I will FIRMLY plant myself in the mindset of keeping both of them at the tough decision to let multiple young WRs go because both of them are going to cost similar to paying a WR1 type if anyone progresses towards that.

 

[sschind]

I would need for the discussion to know what exactly 'better' means for the discussion? I expect Musgrave to fully have more production in yards unless he misses significant time again...but I still don't see him ever developing into a true complete package like Kraft may - just isn't his skillset and physical make up. Kraft can become a guy like a baby Gronk style where Musgrave is more of a Jimmy Graham/Kelce type. Truthfully if they both keep excelling I will FIRMLY plant myself in the mindset of keeping both of them at the tough decision to let multiple young WRs go because both of them are going to cost similar to paying a WR1 type if anyone progresses towards that.

I'm not saying either of them are in a class with Kelce or Gronk but it has been shown that teams can succeed when their best pass catcher is a TE. With both of them on the team I don't see either one of them approaching the productivity of a top TE in the league individually but I can very easily see the two of them together becoming the top TE tandem in the league if they aren't already. Especially when you consider both are very talented as opposed to a team that may have one uber talented individual and a second guy that is just OK. Many teams can't even claim one high level TE and I think we have two that, if either one is called upon due to injury to the other, could be a top 5 TE in the league.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm not saying either of them are in a class with Kelce or Gronk but it has been shown that teams can succeed when their best pass catcher is a TE. With both of them on the team I don't see either one of them approaching the productivity of a top TE in the league individually but I can very easily see the two of them together becoming the top TE tandem in the league if they aren't already. Especially when you consider both are very talented as opposed to a team that may have one uber talented individual and a second guy that is just OK. Many teams can't even claim one high level TE and I think we have two that, if either one is called upon due to injury to the other, could be a top 5 TE in the league.

I'm not saying they are in that class, I'm just speaking to the type of TEs they may become. 100% agree, they could quickly be considered a Top 5 or 3 TE duo this year.

 

[sschind]

I'm not saying they are in that class, I'm just speaking to the type of TEs they may become. 100% agree, they could quickly be considered a Top 5 or 3 TE duo this year.

My reference to Kelce and Gronk was simply to show that the best pass catchers on a team aren't always WRs and to agree with you on possibly keeping them over one or two of the young WRs. We saw the dynamic between Aaron Jones and Jamal Williams being draft mates at the same position and it seemed to push both of them. It will be interesting to see if a similar dynamic evolves between Kraft and Musgrave. I don't think we really got a chance to see it last season because injuries limited the amount of playing time they had together.

 

[El Guapo]

I would need for the discussion to know what exactly 'better' means for the discussion?

Being as this is a 101 class, you get to decide what 'better' means.

 

[gopkrs]

Really tough to say who will be better. I think Kraft runs better after the catch. But I do hope he limits his jumping over tacklers and runs through them instead. He does not really look like he falls like an acrobat. I think there will be times when they will be in there at the same time so am glad Kraft got a chance to show he can be relied upon. But out receivers are too good imho for us to see a whole lot of 2 TE sets. But it may make play action pretty good on shorter yardage.

 

[Voyageur]

I'm just thankful we have both of these guys on the roster. We spent way too much time trying to make ourselves believe we had solid TEs, when we didn't.

 

[AmishMafia]

It's a fantastic argument to be able to have after many years on trying to get just one. We had guys for short bits, like Finley, always teasing, and more recently Tonyan who left just as he maxed out.

I am thinking Musgrave will have bigger impact to the offense by stretching the field, but we will recognize Kraft more for his slightly better numbers.

If I had to chose one it would be Kraft because of more durability.

 

[tynimiller]

Here's a hot take for our TE room - the guy I think that we come out of 2024 regular season saying progressed the most is going to be Ben Sims. Many forget he truly is a VERY athletic prospect coming out of Baylor and last year as need arose he quietly got better and better, especially in the backside blocking and hand placement throughout.

I think between Kraft and Musgrave we get close if not 1,000 yards receiving and 10 TDs from the duo.

 

[jetfixer]

Could be the best pair of TE's in the league soon.

 

[jetfixer]

Here's a hot take for our TE room - the guy I think that we come out of 2024 regular season saying progressed the most is going to be Ben Sims. Many forget he truly is a VERY athletic prospect coming out of Baylor and last year as need arose he quietly got better and better, especially in the backside blocking and hand placement throughout.

I think between Kraft and Musgrave we get close if not 1,000 yards receiving and 10 TDs from the duo.

Sims was a pleasant surprise.

 

[El Guapo]

But out receivers are too good imho for us to see a whole lot of 2 TE sets.

I think that if I had my preference, I would go with 12 personnel instead of 11 personnel the majority of the time. That's assuming that all WRs and TEs are equal of course. It gives you more run/pass options and really keeps the defense off balance. Now if one of our WRs shows Allan Lazard's blocking skills, then I would run 11 personnel predominantly.

 

[tynimiller]

I think that if I had my preference, I would go with 12 personnel instead of 11 personnel the majority of the time. That's assuming that all WRs and TEs are equal of course. It gives you more run/pass options and really keeps the defense off balance. Now if one of our WRs shows Allan Lazard's blocking skills, then I would run 11 personnel predominantly.

Malik Heath is IMO by far the best blocking WR we have. I concur on the 12 over 11

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Musgrave the better receiver while Kraft the better blocker (but still an effective receiver). I think Kraft will probably have the better season because the thing Musgrave does best is something that a bunch of wide receivers on this team can also do; i.e., Musgrave won't receive enough targets to really distance himself in the receiving category.

 

[Pkrjones]

I'm going with Kraft as he's more versatile. Could see Kraft in for 1st & 2nd downs for the run/pass flexibility and Musgrave in for 3rd downs. Musgrave's stats may be slightly better, but Kraft offers more, imho. In '23 the offense started clicking when Kraft played more snaps (due to injury).

 

[El Guapo]

It's sometimes fun to revive old threads and see what we said in the past.

I think that we all know that the answer to this answer was Kraft. The real question now is whether or not Musgrave will even make the roster in 2026. He still mostly blocks like garbage (although I have seen one or two nice blocks) and seems to be losing the #2 TE role to Fitzpatrick. He's 5 of 6 for 49yds on the season and really is not a part of the offense. The only notable play of his was the offensive whiff on the FG block a few weeks ago.

He smells like moldy cheese, and I'm not sure that we could shave off enough to find something worth keeping.

 

[tynimiller]

It's sometimes fun to revive old threads and see what we said in the past.

I think that we all know that the answer to this answer was Kraft. The real question now is whether or not Musgrave will even make the roster in 2026. He still mostly blocks like garbage (although I have seen one or two nice blocks) and seems to be losing the #2 TE role to Fitzpatrick. He's 5 of 6 for 49yds on the season and really is not a part of the offense. The only notable play of his was the offensive whiff on the FG block a few weeks ago.

He smells like moldy cheese, and I'm not sure that we could shave off enough to find something worth keeping.

He’ll be here unless traded…which honestly if GB can turn him into any clean day 3 pick I’d do it after this season

 

[gopkrs]

I don't think they are giving Musgrave enough chances to catch the ball. Need to draw up a couple plays for him imho.

 

[tynimiller]

I don't think they are giving Musgrave enough chances to catch the ball. Need to draw up a couple plays for him imho.

To be fair so long as Kraft is healthy and Doubs and Golden out there I am fine with Musgrave only getting one or two

 

[Voyageur]

I think Kraft is in the future with the Packers, Musgrave probably not. I see him being traded after this season with one year left on his contract. Both would become UFA after 2026. Watch for Kraft to get a sizeable contract before next season. It could even happen this year, so some of the money could be dumped into this year's cap.

Kittle is the highest paid TE at a little over $19 mill, and if you go through the list of the top 10, I honestly wouldn't trade Kraft for anyone of them even if they threw in a 5th round pick to go with them. Here in lies the dilemma. Where do the Packers go with a contract, and how long a term. A five-year contract would take Tucker through 31 years old. That's not old for a TE. A lot of them play into the middle of their 30s quite effectively. So, how high do you go?

I'm going to spitball it. I'm going to say you're going to have to give him 5 years at $20 mill a year and guarantee a minimum of 80%. If you don't, rest assured someone will, and he's outta there. As much as he likes playing in Green Bay, there's not going to be a huge discount so he can stay. He's too solid a commodity, and if they don't get something written up before this year is over, there's going to be some huge numbers thrown around by people and Kraft isn't going to accept anything less than top billing for TEs in the next contract. In all honesty, $20 mill per year might just be a bargain.

On the other hand, if you feel that's too much, and Musgrave has the potential to be nearly as good, a person could probably sign Musgrave long term for 60 to 70% of that much money, guarantee 75%, and and trade Kraft for an early 2nd round pick, or even a 3rd & 4th in a heartbeat.

No matter which way the Packers jump on this there will be people second guessing them. It's kind of how things work.

 

[mradtke66]

I'm going to spitball it. I'm going to say you're going to have to give him 5 years at $20 mill a year and guarantee a minimum of 80%. If you don't, rest assured someone will, and he's outta there. As much as he likes playing in Green Bay, there's not going to be a huge discount so he can stay. He's too solid a commodity, and if they don't get something written up before this year is over, there's going to be some huge numbers thrown around by people and Kraft isn't going to accept anything less than top billing for TEs in the next contract. In all honesty, $20 mill per year might just be a bargain.

Your numbers are probably in the ballpark, but its hard to find a direct comparison. Kittle is probably the better tight but he signed his current deal at 31. Kraft is much younger, so it wouldn't surprise me if we'd have to exceed the yearly average.

On the flip side, Kittle's contract has only about 43% guaranteed. I don't think we would need to hit 80%, but more than Kittle makes sense due him being younger and more likely to play the deal to completion.

Musgrave has the potential to be nearly as good,

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[milani]

I think Kraft is in the future with the Packers, Musgrave probably not. I see him being traded after this season with one year left on his contract. Both would become UFA after 2026. Watch for Kraft to get a sizeable contract before next season. It could even happen this year, so some of the money could be dumped into this year's cap.

Kittle is the highest paid TE at a little over $19 mill, and if you go through the list of the top 10, I honestly wouldn't trade Kraft for anyone of them even if they threw in a 5th round pick to go with them. Here in lies the dilemma. Where do the Packers go with a contract, and how long a term. A five-year contract would take Tucker through 31 years old. That's not old for a TE. A lot of them play into the middle of their 30s quite effectively. So, how high do you go?

I'm going to spitball it. I'm going to say you're going to have to give him 5 years at $20 mill a year and guarantee a minimum of 80%. If you don't, rest assured someone will, and he's outta there. As much as he likes playing in Green Bay, there's not going to be a huge discount so he can stay. He's too solid a commodity, and if they don't get something written up before this year is over, there's going to be some huge numbers thrown around by people and Kraft isn't going to accept anything less than top billing for TEs in the next contract. In all honesty, $20 mill per year might just be a bargain.

On the other hand, if you feel that's too much, and Musgrave has the potential to be nearly as good, a person could probably sign Musgrave long term for 60 to 70% of that much money, guarantee 75%, and and trade Kraft for an early 2nd round pick, or even a 3rd & 4th in a heartbeat.

No matter which way the Packers jump on this there will be people second guessing them. It's kind of how things work.

I was reading today that 1-5 Ravens will have to deal with the 74 million due Lamar Jackson in 2026. They have to restructure. And their season could be over pretty soon.

 

[mradtke66]

I was reading today that 1-5 Ravens will have to deal with the 74 million due Lamar Jackson in 2026. They have to restructure. And their season could be over pretty soon.

Based on how the contract is structured, I presume this on purpose. 3 real years followed by 2 "we don't really expect to have you play on that deal, your base salary is too high" years and then some voids for more shenanigans.

While it probably hurts to look at, the front office had to assume this was a "3 year and then restructure" contract. They have planned for this.