Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

[Dantés]

Also on this thread topic, Martinez was a mess today. He had one nice hit in the hole early and I thought "hey!" And then... no.

 

[Dblbogey]

Clark has been playing with a calf injury. I hope that explains the dropoff in the last 3-4 games. It's been noticeable. And Lowry is getting tossed around in too many games.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Didn't want to start a whole new thread on him, since he is 1/2 this thread. But curious to get other peoples opinion of Kenny Clark this season.

Is it just me or does he seem to be having an off year? Contract year for him too. If he is having an off year, is he playing not to get injured, playing safe, so he doesn't lose out on a big second contract? Haven't focused a lot on him, but seems like he has been pretty quiet and kind of a non-factor.

I don't know about the reasoning behind it but there's no doubt that Clark hasn't performed up to expectations after being an elite player for most of his first three seasons with the team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Also on this thread topic, Martinez was a mess today. He had one nice hit in the hole early and I thought "hey!" And then... no.

Yup, that seems to be the ongoing dialogue this season. With Martinez being in a contract year and Clark heading towards playing on his 5th year option in 2020, its going to be very important for Gute and the Packers to get the decisions on these 2 guys right. I think if that decision had to be made today, BM would be done in GB and Clark would be asked to play on his 5th year deal and a new contract would be pending his play getting back up to its previously level.

 

[tynimiller]

I will not judge any single player based on this one game. NOT a single one deserves that. When a team plays well a few struggles can be overcome or hidden...when a team plays terrible, even the best typically cannot deliver even on an individual basis.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Lets get some extensions going for these two. The Pack does have a few nice young players. Just trying to stay positive. I really like these two young players.

Would they play better with extensions because they are not having good seasons.

 

[Dantés]

Clark has been playing with a calf injury. I hope that explains the dropoff in the last 3-4 games. It's been noticeable. And Lowry is getting tossed around in too many games.

I also seem to remember something about a back injury. Don't quote me on that. But suffice it to say, he isn't right.

Silver lining-- I think his inability to dominate is revealing just how totally replaceable Martinez is. The guy is serviceable when you keep him totally clean, but not an impact player. Now that he has to deal with blockers, he's a straight up liability. Perhaps this will save the Packers from the mistake of extending him.

 

[GleefulGary]

Clark at the beginning of the year was outstanding.

Lately, not so much.

Seems fairly obvious he's dealing with an injury and is worn down. They need a suitable backup for him, conserve his energy.

If he's playing poorly bc of an injury, I doubt it effects his contract too much.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think if that decision had to be made today, BM would be done in GB and Clark would be asked to play on his 5th year deal and a new contract would be pending his play getting back up to its previously level.

I highly doubt the Packers plan on having Clark play on the fifth year option next season. Gutekunst would be smart to extend him after this year, maybe saving some bucks in the process because he didn't perform at an elite level in 2019.

I agree that Martinez will most likely olay somewhere else next season.

I will not judge any single player based on this one game. NOT a single one deserves that. When a team plays well a few struggles can be overcome or hidden...when a team plays terrible, even the best typically cannot deliver even on an individual basis.

Clark and Martinez haven't performed up to expectations for several games because of different reasons though.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Clark's play has dropped off as the season is progressing. That was predictable based on the fact the Packers don't have an adequate back up and he's enduring too many double teams. D line is a mess but Clark should be extended at the end of the season. Gute may get a bargain based upon his lack of production.

 

[OldSchool101]

Clark is still a very good DT. They started lining him up at 3T occasionally last Sunday and he hooked outside the OG and he nearly got to Rivers several times. Clark would be exponentially better if we had another DT that commanded double teams next to him. I still feel like we’re missing Mo Wilkerson’s replacement. A second disruptive force upfront in the middle would go a long ways in Clark getting more 3-5T looks.

Martinez is a formidable Co-Pilot, but he’s being asked to do way too much. He’s like a fish out water in coverage and watching him being asked to back-peddle into space is almost painful. I’m having a difficult time ascertaining why he’s being repetitively misused this way. All the while being stretched thin and playing injured to boot. I’m at a point where I’d rather they try Ty out for a game or two or maybe even move Rashan to ILB with Ibraheim Campbell next to him. At least he’s not nearly as easily moved at 277 lbs and would beef up the middle against the running game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Guessing the reason the Packers aren't so quick to bench Martinez is twofold. One, they really don't have someone on the team that is better than him. Two, he is the QB of the defense. He is taking all the calls from Pettine through his helmet radio and helping to get everyone set in position. This isn't that easy of a job, that just anyone can do. I remember reading that this is an aspect of his game that the coaches feel he is very good at. So yeah, he isn't playing as great as his stats might tell you that he is, but he isn't the easiest guy just to instantly replace, especially with the current roster.

OldSchool, you and I usually agree on a lot of things, but at this point, I wouldn't want to see Ty Summers or Gary take over Blake's job. I think given how green both of them are, the results would be even worse.

 

[Dblbogey]

I don't know about the reasoning behind it but there's no doubt that Clark hasn't performed up to expectations after being an elite player for most of his first three seasons with the team.

I understand that there is a calf and shin injury he's playing through. Bye week may help a little.

 

[Scotland Yard]

Blake Martinez is so bad that I doubt he'll even be a starting ILB in the NFL in 2020 after the Packers wisely decide not to resign him. Slow, can't cover, can't shed, slow to commit to the point of attack, too many missed tackles...teams are just killing the Packers right up the middle attacking Martinez all day.

At this point Blake is making me long for the days of A. J. Hawk! (Of course, if TT were still in charge Blake would be getting extended by now at four yrs./$30million. Thankfully, I assume Gutekunst will move on from Blake like he has from other TT busts.)

Bring in Ty Summers (or use newly activated Campbell as the defacto ILB), it can't be any worse than Blake. Amos can probably wear the headset, so, I'm not buying the excuse that they need Blake to call the plays. (These potential changes are likely to occur during the bye week perhaps?)

 

[greengold]

Guessing the reason the Packers aren't so quick to bench Martinez is twofold. One, they really don't have someone on the team that is better than him. Two, he is the QB of the defense. He is taking all the calls from Pettine through his helmet radio and helping to get everyone set in position. This isn't that easy of a job, that just anyone can do. I remember reading that this is an aspect of his game that the coaches feel he is very good at. So yeah, he isn't playing as great as his stats might tell you that he is, but he isn't the easiest guy just to instantly replace, especially with the current roster.

OldSchool, you and I usually agree on a lot of things, but at this point, I wouldn't want to see Ty Summers or Gary take over Blake's job. I think given how green both of them are, the results would be even worse.

Sorry, but I disagree. Blake is playing so poorly that he is costing us dearly. We played a weak run game with backups on their OL, and they pushed him all over, or, he just flat out missed.

I'd rather bench him and give the snaps to Ty. Summers is a bright kid too. Bigger, faster, far more athletic, with instincts for the position.

 

[Mondio]

at this point, I'd take mistakes at high speed than continue to watch Martinez. Give the headset to Amos and party on Wayne

 

[OldSchool101]

OldSchool, you and I usually agree on a lot of things, but at this point, I wouldn't want to see Ty Summers or Gary take over Blake's job. I think given how green both of them are, the results would be even worse.

I’m not sure what has made Blake so reluctant to attack the LOS. But from what I’m seeing, he’s getting more conservative week to week. We know that he injured his hand and that might be a mental hurdle of avoiding re-injury. I noticed him increasingly dropping into coverage but he looks borderline confused at times.

While I appreciate his signal caller role, he’s not indispensable either. You have to play at a high level to command that responsibility and he’s just not. You know the old saying about the definition of insanity. We can’t keep doing the same thing expecting different results.

I’m going to reference 2014 again (sorry upfront Whimm). We shuffled our LBs roles and took our Run Defense into a top 5 in the league for the second half of the season. I saw it got our best talent in the field simultaneous because it put Perry and Peppers outside and moved Clay inside. No matter what anyone says about any individual performance, our D improved immediately and vastly in the run game.

One look would be bringing Fackrell along as a starting OLB and moving one of the Smiths inside.
Smith——-Smith——Martinez——Fackrell
or
Smith——Campbell—-Martinez——Smith

That would also give us unlimited blitz packages and avoid these bare, second shelf 5-1-5 and 6-1-4 looks that teams are feasting on both in run and short pass. If we go status quo and float between 6 or 7 in the box, it’s a recipe for certain disaster this week. We must force them to throw the ball intermediate-to-long out of a stacked 1st and 2nd shelf kitchen.

 

[Dantés]

Clark is still a very good DT. They started lining him up at 3T occasionally last Sunday and he hooked outside the OG and he nearly got to Rivers several times. Clark would be exponentially better if we had another DT that commanded double teams next to him. I still feel like we’re missing Mo Wilkerson’s replacement. A second disruptive force upfront in the middle would go a long ways in Clark getting more 3-5T looks.

Martinez is a formidable Co-Pilot, but he’s being asked to do way too much. He’s like a fish out water in coverage and watching him being asked to back-peddle into space is almost painful. I’m having a difficult time ascertaining why he’s being repetitively misused this way. All the while being stretched thin and playing injured to boot. I’m at a point where I’d rather they try Ty out for a game or two or maybe even move Rashan to ILB with Ibraheim Campbell next to him. At least he’s not nearly as easily moved at 277 lbs and would beef up the middle against the running game.

Wait a minute... it was like two weeks ago that you were talking all kinds of **** about me for criticizing Martinez and now you want him benched for Ty Summers??

Uhhh...

 

[Dantés]

I don't know how many of you subscribe to The Athletic, but Ben Fennell is the best in the NFL media business at breaking down game film and he does a deep dive into the Packer game every week. In his breakdown of the Chargers game, he basically said exactly what I have been saying about Martinez all season. If he's kept clean, he usually makes the play. When he isn't kept clean, he's a total non-factor. Put him next to Goodson, and you have a coverage liability. Put him next to a safety, and you have a run defense liability.

 

[mradtke66]

it put Perry and Peppers outside and moved Clay inside. No matter what anyone says about any individual performance, our D improved immediately and vastly in the run game.

One look would be bringing Fackrell along as a starting OLB and moving one of the Smiths inside.
Smith——-Smith——Martinez——Fackrell
or
Smith——Campbell—-Martinez——Smith

Moving one of the Smiths inside would put them more out of position than Matthews did.

If we're going to move an OLB to ILB, I'd rather they do that with Fackrell. Honestly, it might be a net win. He's never been a great rusher, his 10 sack season from last year not withstanding.

He has demonstrated excellent ability to drop into coverage. I'd be in favor of at least experimenting with him. It's even possible his below-average EDGE pass rushing skills would make him an above-average off-the-ball pass rusher.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he's kept clean, he usually makes the play. When he isn't kept clean, he's a total non-factor. Put him next to Goodson, and you have a coverage liability. Put him next to a safety, and you have a run defense liability.

I agree with this and I don't think that the Packers currently have players on their roster that are going to fair any better than Blake. All due respect, to the posters thinking Ty Summers is the immediate answer, I highly doubt it. Nor do they have someone currently on the team that will probably be better on the DL to keep blockers off of Blake. So with the Trade Deadline passing, the Packers are left with trying to get better internally or try to find someone on the street or another teams PS to improve the DL and/or ILB. My guess is they will stay pat, unless there is an injury or 2.

As frustrating as it was for me to watch the Packers open the season with the current ILB's and Safeties to play the hybrid, I think they will have to ride it out in 2019 with Martinez. Hope Clark gets healthier, hybrid S's can help and the rest of the guys upfront do a better job of keeping BM clean.

 

[Dantés]

I agree with this and I don't think that the Packers currently have players on their roster that are going to fair any better than Blake. All due respect, to the posters thinking Ty Summers is the immediate answer, I highly doubt it. Nor do they have someone currently on the team that will probably be better on the DL to keep blockers off of Blake. So with the Trade Deadline passing, the Packers are left with trying to get better internally or try to find someone on the street or another teams PS to improve the DL and/or ILB. My guess is they will stay pat, unless there is an injury or 2.

As frustrating as it was for me to watch the Packers open the season with the current ILB's and Safeties to play the hybrid, I think they will have to ride it out in 2019 with Martinez. Hope Clark gets healthier, hybrid S's can help and the rest of the guys upfront do a better job of keeping BM clean.

I agree. Basically their road to improvement lies through the DL just playing better. Maybe if Clark can get healthier over the bye, they will see a difference thereafter. Could get ugly against the Panthers. We will see a lot of Goodson.

 

[gbgary]

clark's played more plays this season than any other dt in the league. he's got no one next to him and plays against double teams almost every play. i wonder why his production is down?

martinez (a 4th rd pick who leads the league in tackles) is doing what he can. he's another who has no one next to him. pettine doesn't ask him to blitz or shoot gaps...just take on O-lineman or drop into zone coverage. i wonder why he doesn't get sacks or ints?

 

[OldSchool101]

Wait a minute... it was like two weeks ago that you were talking all kinds of **** about me for criticizing Martinez and now you want him benched for Ty Summers??

Uhhh...

Actually I was more throwing the idea around of getting Ty some snaps alongside Martinez. Any idea of benching Blake is more short-term, situational. In order to let him heal up properly verses him possibly not playing 100%.
But I see now that Campbell is activated and he’s more ideal as an adjacent to Blake (as Poker said our choices are limited) I thought I apologized for getting you riled up, but maybe it wasn’t apparent (laced in a response) or you may have missed that. Anyway. Let’s play ball!

 

[OldSchool101]

clark's played more plays this season than any other dt in the league. he's got no one next to him and plays against double teams almost every play. i wonder why his production is down?

martinez (a 4th rd pick who leads the league in tackles) is doing what he can. he's another who has no one next to him. pettine doesn't ask him to blitz or shoot gaps...just take on O-lineman or drop into zone coverage. i wonder why he doesn't get sacks or ints?

Amen. We didn’t have an issue with Clark until he became a 1 man show. We didn’t have an issue with Blake until he started getting schemed as a “one hit wonder”. For every play you see where they get washed, I’ll show you 2 more where they are on an island playing two positions or double teams, literally.

You can’t wear a 1 head hat to cover 2 separate heads or you’ll get 50% of your head wet when it rains.

I’m not sure why all these experts can micro analyze a play to the micrometer in amazing detail and with such splendor, but in the same breath can’t see their own shoe strings are untied while their walking down the edge of a game cliff.

How about peeling the proverbial player film Onion back just one more of the 9 layers and offering some depth to the problem. I’m no expert, far from it. But I can pick any player from a losing game or poor team performance and pull film and make him look terrible.