Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

Lawdog

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Lets get some extensions going for these two. The Pack does have a few nice young players. Just trying to stay positive. I really like these two young players.
 

sjb12681

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They both show promise, but the mechanics of NFL means not smart only a year+ into the league.

The whole point of rookie contracts is to get your value out of draft talent, then pay them.
 

captainWIMM

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Lets get some extensions going for these two. The Pack does have a few nice young players. Just trying to stay positive. I really like these two young players.

The Packers aren't allowed to extend either of them until the start of the next league year in March.

Clark yes, Blake idk just yet.

The Packers better extend Martinez as soon as possible as he's one of the best inside linebackers in the league.
 

PackerFanLV

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The Packers aren't allowed to extend either of them until the start of the next league year in March.



The Packers better extend Martinez as soon as possible as he's one of the best inside linebackers in the league.
Where would you rank Martinez at in the league out all linebackers playing right now?
 

GleefulGary

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The Packers better extend Martinez as soon as possible as he's one of the best inside linebackers in the league.

Lolololololol

Martinez is good. Perhaps above average in some areas. One of the leagues best ILB’s? Not a chance.
 

bigbubbatd

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Lolololololol

Martinez is good. Perhaps above average in some areas. One of the leagues best ILB’s? Not a chance.

He does grade out as the 8th best LB in all of football according to PFF. They are not perfect but he is definitely better than you give him credit for.
 

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Lolololololol

Martinez is good. Perhaps above average in some areas. One of the leagues best ILB’s? Not a chance.

I will lend credence to your opinion as soon as you can convince me that you watch every starting ILB in the league, every week, and are therefore an informed opinion on ILB in the NFL. Is he Kuechly? Heck no, but just because a guy isn't the absolute best at his position doesn't mean he's not great.

Please, give us your list of best ILBs in the NFL and where Martinez falls on that list.
 

Sunshinepacker

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He does grade out as the 8th best LB in all of football according to PFF. They are not perfect but he is definitely better than you give him credit for.

What's surprising to me is that he's actually the 3rd best in coverage among qualifying players (4 of the guys in front of him have played 51 or fewer total snaps).
 

GleefulGary

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I will lend credence to your opinion as soon as you can convince me that you watch every starting ILB in the league, every week, and are therefore an informed opinion on ILB in the NFL. Is he Kuechly? Heck no, but just because a guy isn't the absolute best at his position doesn't mean he's not great.

Please, give us your list of best ILBs in the NFL and where Martinez falls on that list.

Rueben Foster, Keuchly, Jamie Collins, Bobby Wagner, C.J. Mosley, Eric Kendricks, Deion Jones are arguably all better than Martinez.

Then you have other guys who play outside in a 4-3, but would play inside in a 3-4 like Sean Lee or Lavonte David. There are more there too.

Martinez piles up stats because he plays behind a phenomenal DL. Watch the tape. Martinez rarely has to worry about blockers because of how good our DL is. Despite that, he still misses gaps, he’s still average at best in coverage, and he misses way too many tackles. Now I’m not saying he’s bad, because he’s not. Above average at the very best. Calling him among the NFL’s top tier is too much for me.

Also, obligatory ‘I don’t care what PFF said’ sentence.
 

El Guapo

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They are both good players deserving of being here for a long time as long as their contract demands aren't ridiculous.

Martinez is an effort guy who doesn't have the natural skills (IMO) to be like a Keuchly or Wagner. However, he is a very good tackler and hustles. His coverage is good but not elite. I think as others have said, he's certainly not top 5 but he's flirting around the edge of the top 10.
 
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They are both good players deserving of being here for a long time as long as their contract demands aren't ridiculous.

Martinez is an effort guy who doesn't have the natural skills (IMO) to be like a Keuchly or Wagner. However, he is a very good tackler and hustles. His coverage is good but not elite. I think as others have said, he's certainly not top 5 but he's flirting around the edge of the top 10.

My favorite thing about Martinez is that he tackles so well. Dude actually wraps guys up. Nothing makes me crazier than when an opposing player is going down the sideline bouncing off our defenders who are shoulder "tackling" and just bumping the guy further down the field
 

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Rueben Foster, Keuchly, Jamie Collins, Bobby Wagner, C.J. Mosley, Eric Kendricks, Deion Jones are arguably all better than Martinez.

Then you have other guys who play outside in a 4-3, but would play inside in a 3-4 like Sean Lee or Lavonte David. There are more there too.

Martinez piles up stats because he plays behind a phenomenal DL. Watch the tape. Martinez rarely has to worry about blockers because of how good our DL is. Despite that, he still misses gaps, he’s still average at best in coverage, and he misses way too many tackles. Now I’m not saying he’s bad, because he’s not. Above average at the very best. Calling him among the NFL’s top tier is too much for me.

Also, obligatory ‘I don’t care what PFF said’ sentence.

You listed seven names that you say are "arguably" better. If only seven guys are arguably better then that means he's REALLY good. If we include Lee and David, that brings the total to 9, only a few of which are, in my opinion, "unarguably" better. Again, that means he's probably REALLY good.
 

906Fan

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Rueben Foster, Keuchly, Jamie Collins, Bobby Wagner, C.J. Mosley, Eric Kendricks, Deion Jones are arguably all better than Martinez.

Then you have other guys who play outside in a 4-3, but would play inside in a 3-4 like Sean Lee or Lavonte David. There are more there too.

Martinez piles up stats because he plays behind a phenomenal DL. Watch the tape. Martinez rarely has to worry about blockers because of how good our DL is. Despite that, he still misses gaps, he’s still average at best in coverage, and he misses way too many tackles. Now I’m not saying he’s bad, because he’s not. Above average at the very best. Calling him among the NFL’s top tier is too much for me.

Also, obligatory ‘I don’t care what PFF said’ sentence.

Besides Clark you are giving our DL way to much credit and Martinez not enough. He has more tackles, sacks, and tackles for a loss than any of the players you mentioned. How much more do you want from him? He is consistently in the mix of plays every single game this year and last and making tackles. He is at the very least above average at everything you’d want out of an ILB.
 

bigbubbatd

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Rueben Foster, Keuchly, Jamie Collins, Bobby Wagner, C.J. Mosley, Eric Kendricks, Deion Jones are arguably all better than Martinez.

Then you have other guys who play outside in a 4-3, but would play inside in a 3-4 like Sean Lee or Lavonte David. There are more there too.

Martinez piles up stats because he plays behind a phenomenal DL. Watch the tape. Martinez rarely has to worry about blockers because of how good our DL is. Despite that, he still misses gaps, he’s still average at best in coverage, and he misses way too many tackles. Now I’m not saying he’s bad, because he’s not. Above average at the very best. Calling him among the NFL’s top tier is too much for me.

Also, obligatory ‘I don’t care what PFF said’ sentence.

I know you don't care what pff says but they rate Kendricks as an average linebacker. He is 61st. Kendricks also plays behind a phenomenal dl.

Honestly you seem like someone who has an axe to grind against Martinez. Almost everyone (analysts and site like pff) say Martinez is a very good tackler.

So what does pff get so wrong that you get so right?
 

bigbubbatd

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What's surprising to me is that he's actually the 3rd best in coverage among qualifying players (4 of the guys in front of him have played 51 or fewer total snaps).

That is a surprise but I feel like he has gotten a ton better in coverage
 

GleefulGary

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Besides Clark you are giving our DL way to much credit and Martinez not enough. He has more tackles, sacks, and tackles for a loss than any of the players you mentioned. How much more do you want from him? He is consistently in the mix of plays every single game this year and last and making tackles. He is at the very least above average at everything you’d want out of an ILB.

He is certainly not above average in coverage.

He’s probably our only LB that can take on blockers, although he doesn’t do that exceptionally well.

He is schemed to get those stats. Now I’m not saying he’s bad. I’m not. He’s above average. But he’s not one of the best ILB in the league. And if you want to justify that with box score scouting, then you’re showing how little you know about defense. That’s like saying since HaHa is towards the top of the league in INT’s he’s one of the best safeties in the game.
 

GleefulGary

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You listed seven names that you say are "arguably" better. If only seven guys are arguably better then that means he's REALLY good. If we include Lee and David, that brings the total to 9, only a few of which are, in my opinion, "unarguably" better. Again, that means he's probably REALLY good.

I mean, I was just going off the top of my head.

I could certainly add more if I were so inclined, which I’m not. I figured the illustration was fairly obvious, I guess it wasn’t.
 

906Fan

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He is certainly not above average in coverage.

He’s probably our only LB that can take on blockers, although he doesn’t do that exceptionally well.

He is schemed to get those stats. Now I’m not saying he’s bad. I’m not. He’s above average. But he’s not one of the best ILB in the league. And if you want to justify that with box score scouting, then you’re showing how little you know about defense. That’s like saying since HaHa is towards the top of the league in INT’s he’s one of the best safeties in the game.

Rather than scheming it’s that the other LB and DL players on defense aren’t making the basic plays and tackles that Martinez is getting in there and making. He is out there making the rest of the defense look better instead of the other way around.
 

bigbubbatd

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You mean no other DC has a scheme to free up the best tackler on the team to, you know, make the tackle instead of being blocked?

Next thing you know Adams wI'll be an average wide receiver because we scheme to get the ball to him on offense
 

GleefulGary

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You mean no other DC has a scheme to free up the best tackler on the team to, you know, make the tackle instead of being blocked?

Don’t be dense.

Pettine has always blitzed with his ILB’s more than typical, it’s how he generates pressure. Now certainly it’s always good when a player gets results...but if you’re going to say so and so is a better player because they have more tackles, you don’t understand defense.

Martinez is a good player. He makes a lot of plays. He played very well against the Rams. In prior games, he has left a lot of plays on the field too.

All I’m saying is I don’t think he’s one of the best ILB’s in the league. I don’t understand why that’s controversial except people think PFF is the gospel (except when it comes to HaHa).
 

captainWIMM

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Martinez is good. Perhaps above average in some areas. One of the leagues best ILB’s? Not a chance.

It's fine that we disagree on Martinez being one of the best inside linebackers in the league but after his performance against the Rams you most likely have a hard time convincing anyone about the opposite.
 

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