Kenny Clark and Blake Martinez

[gbgary]

The point is that Martinez has had strong defensive line play in front of him, making his life a lot easier. This has been true even when the defense as a whole hasn't been playing particularly well.

To illustrate this point, look at Dalvin Cook's 75 yard touchdown. The interior defensive linemen were Tyler Lancaster and Montravius Adams. Lancaster is blocked out of his gap by the center without help, and Adams is essentially sealed off by the right tackle. This allows the right guard to climb to the second level without being impeded or needed elsewhere. He completely takes Martinez out of the play.

When Clark and Lancaster are playing in front of Martinez, that isn't happening.

they didn't have a chance on that play. the perfect call, perfectly executed. take that play out and his yards per carry was 4.1. not bad.

 

[gbgary]

Nobody is saying Martinez is playing bad.

What I'm saying is that Martinez isn't as good as his stats make him look because his teammates elevate his play. I don't know if I'd say the opposite is true.

I just don't want to pay him top tier money, when he's not a top tier ILB.

i understood that. and i conceded he's not a top tier player and/or even a notch lower. i just wanted to point out he's had two very good years in a row with guys around him, as a whole, that weren't as good as the one's immediately around him now.

 

[GleefulGary]

i understood that. and i conceded he's not a top tier player and/or even a notch lower. i just wanted to point out he's had two very good years in a row with guys around him, as a whole, that weren't as good as the one's immediately around him now.

Meh. The front core is about the same, maybe a little better. Edges are a bit better at setting the edge, but again, doesn't impact Blake a lot. Most plays it will be an iOL coming up to seal off the Mike. The safeties have nothing to do with Blake's run fits, they're irrelevant in this case.

If Blake had two very good years in a row, he'd be a top tier player. He's not, he's slightly above average. He makes plays because of the lineman in front of him. Have you ever seen him take on blocks? It's usually not good. Rarely makes plays in the backfield. Ok at best in coverage. Watch Roquan Smith against us, that's a top tier LB. Now compare that to Blake.

 

[Dantés]

they didn't have a chance on that play. the perfect call, perfectly executed. take that play out and his yards per carry was 3.95. not bad.

???

They get their butts handed to them Gary.

 

[gbgary]

???

They get their butts handed to them Gary.

yes...but without that one perfectly executed play it's 79 yards on 19 carries, 4.1 per.

 

[HardRightEdge]

some martinez perspective:
https://lombardiave.com/2019/02/18/packers-blake-martinez-pff-grade-nfc-north-linebackers/

https://twitter.com/pff/statuses/1110168468865851392?lang=en

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...-blake-martinez-contract-extension/ar-AAC9dOA

ok HRE...2 notches below elite lol.

I figured there must be an article out there saying Martinez is a $12 mil player.

 

[VegasFan]

I'm not positive on this stat line... But I'm sure I heard that Martinez finished in the top 3 overall tackles 2 of the last 3 years at around the 160 total solo tackles.... I don't care how good your D line or safeties or scheme or whatever is.... If your posting more tackles than ANYBODY in the league your a stud.

To also be clear... You can't have it both ways... Rashan Gary's college stats suffered heavily because of the scheme and his responsibilities making his line backer core look amazing... You can't say Gary is crap and that Martinez is crap because of the same scheme "Dynamics" linemen sometimes eat up blocks so the linebackers can roam and sometimes linebackers fill gaps so D lines can go after the ball...

Once you haters learn Football basics we'll be able to move on and realize that our current D really doesn't have "weaknesses" or "strengths"... Pettine has a good scheme and he got "scheme guys" so we could fabricate a heavy pass rush cover 3 zone similar to the Seahawks legion of boom... Who's safeties and d line made that bum Wagner look like a star (jk Wagner's a beast) just saying it's comparable

 

[VegasFan]

144 tackles a year making him the #2 overall tackler in the league both years with 67 his rookie year ........ .... Not to mention he's in a 3-4 not a 4-3 where a mlb is the main guy.... 3-4s usually split tackles between 2 mlb's and the SS

 

[OldSchool101]

I can see a 4yr/35M type deal for Blake. Depending on his signing. That’s in that Donta Hightower neighborhood. Anything past 10M and I’d pack his bags for him.
Heck we paid Daniels a 3/30M at DT a few years back now. Some will depend on where the Pack finishes this season.

 

[Jerellh528]

Top 6 earners who become FA in 2020 are

Bulaga
Tramon
Crosby
GMo
Marcedes Lewis

I think Tramon and Marcedes will not be renewed and possibly Bulaga too.
Crosby, Blake and Tonyan are the only strong renewal possibilities.

GMo is on the bubble with talented roster of Davis, Lazard and Kumerow waiting to take this place on the roster.

I don’t think any of them should be re-signed. Maybe Bulaga, but can’t see any of those guys coming back. Our cap is in a healthy spot, will be moreso when Jimmy G is gone.

 

[gbgary]

I don’t think any of them should be re-signed. Maybe Bulaga, but can’t see any of those guys coming back. Our cap is in a healthy spot, will be moreso when Jimmy G is gone.

the Packers 2020 cap is pretty tight right now ($24m) and all those guys are going to have to be replaced. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2020/

 

[Jerellh528]

the Packers 2020 cap is pretty tight right now ($24m) and all those guys are going to have to be replaced. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2020/

I feel like all of those guys’ contributions can easily be replaced via draft, except Bulaga.

 

[Heyjoe4]

He's not a notch below elite. He's a good ballplayer with some limitations, two notches below elite. Can you ever picture him at a Pro Bowl alternate level? I can't.

Did I miss something? Did somebody somewhere write an article saying he's a $12 mil player?

It's one thing to pose the question, "who else ya got?", when the guy you do have has a slug of dead money on a pre-existing contract. This is not that. There's free agency and the draft to find a replacement if $12 mil per is what somebody is going to pay.

Something tells me Gluten is going to address ILB in FA next year. IF it takes $12 mil, than it has to be a player with much more meaningful production than Martinez.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I feel like all of those guys’ contributions can easily be replaced via draft, except Bulaga.

With at least 13 games to go, wouldn't you want to at least see how that list of 20 players actually pans out? I mean we could go down the list and make arguments now either way, but until the time comes when you have to make those decisions, a lot can happen.

All that said, I would agree that at the moment, Gutes job of making decisions on those 20 players isn't going to require him to lose a lot of sleep. But I am hopeful that over the next 14+ weeks, a lot of those players step up and make Gute have to think long and ******* them.

 

[Jerellh528]

With at least 13 games to go, wouldn't you want to at least see how that list of 20 players actually pans out? I mean we could go down the list and make arguments now either way, but until the time comes when you have to make those decisions, a lot can happen.

All that said, I would agree that at the moment, Gutes job of making decisions on those 20 players isn't going to require him to lose a lot of sleep. But I am hopeful that over the next 14+ weeks, a lot of those players step up and make Gute have to think long and ******* them.

I didn’t see the whole list of 20 players, I was referring to these guys:Bulaga
Tramon
Crosby
GMo
Marcedes Lewis

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I didn’t see the whole list of 20 players, I was referring to these guys:Bulaga
Tramon
Crosby
GMo
Marcedes Lewis

Got ya. I think there are 3-4 names there that depending on what they do this season, could be in the discussion of another contract. However, not really worth talking about until we see how they do this season and what it would cost to retain them.

 

[Pkrjones]

Something tells me Gluten is going to address ILB in FA next year. IF it takes $12 mil, than it has to be a player with much more meaningful production than Martinez.

HRE - there is no article (yet) saying he's worth $12Mil/yr... just me theorizing.

Heyjoe ~ who are you/Gute going to find in free agency that is better than Martinez for less than $12Mil/yr.? IMHO Martinez is better than Lavonte David (30 yrs. old and on tail end of contract paying him close to $10Mil/yr) and Kwon Alexander (similar age to Martinez) who just signed for an average of $13.5Mil/yr.

Every game that Martinez plays, and plays well will only increase his negotiating power. $!2Mil/yr only puts Martinez at #7 highest paid ILB which, IMHO is just the starting point if I'm BM.

 

[Mondio]

There was a stretch in that last game that shows me exactly why he’s not worth that money. 3 runs where he should have at least disrupted the runners path but because he was blocked he didn’t even sniff a tackle.

A better than average Linebacker at least disrupts the runner, he was cleaned out. A series or so later he was showing up again making some nice tackles, but of course he was free to do so.

He’s a good player, but he usually is relying on the guys in front of him to make a difference so he can.

 

[Dantés]

HRE - there is no article (yet) saying he's worth $12Mil/yr... just me theorizing.

Heyjoe ~ who are you/Gute going to find in free agency that is better than Martinez for less than $12Mil/yr.? IMHO Martinez is better than Lavonte David (30 yrs. old and on tail end of contract paying him close to $10Mil/yr) and Kwon Alexander (similar age to Martinez) who just signed for an average of $13.5Mil/yr.

Every game that Martinez plays, and plays well will only increase his negotiating power. $!2Mil/yr only puts Martinez at #7 highest paid ILB which, IMHO is just the starting point if I'm BM.

If they choose to let Martinez walk, it would be to sign a bridge and draft a true replacement. Someone like Danny Trevathan. They won't be finding a true upgrade on the FA argument.

The logic of that particular opinion is that Martinez might end up costing more of the cap than he's worth. I think it depends on what the ask is.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There was a stretch in that last game that shows me exactly why he’s not worth that money. 3 runs where he should have at least disrupted the runners path but because he was blocked he didn’t even sniff a tackle.

A better than average Linebacker at least disrupts the runner, he was cleaned out. A series or so later he was showing up again making some nice tackles, but of course he was free to do so.

He’s a good player, but he usually is relying on the guys in front of him to make a difference so he can.

I observed the same thing with Martinez during the Denver game. I can't help but wonder though, is the fact that he has Goodson or whoever playing next to him, making his job a lot more difficult? There were a few plays where I saw Goodson just get blown up and there just wasn't enough time for Black to make up for it. Basically, is Blake being asked to patrol a lot more field than he should have to? I am hoping Burks gets back soon, is able to play well and we might see a much better Blake as well.

 

[Dantés]

I observed the same thing with Martinez during the Denver game. I can't help but wonder though, is the fact that he has Goodson or whoever playing next to him, making his job a lot more difficult? There were a few plays where I saw Goodson just get blown up and there just wasn't enough time for Black to make up for it. Basically, is Blake being asked to patrol a lot more field than he should have to? I am hoping Burks gets back soon, is able to play well and we might see a much better Blake as well.

That may be, but that would be a separate issue from his inability to handle blockers when the DL doesn't occupy them.

 

[Mondio]

I observed the same thing with Martinez during the Denver game. I can't help but wonder though, is the fact that he has Goodson or whoever playing next to him, making his job a lot more difficult? There were a few plays where I saw Goodson just get blown up and there just wasn't enough time for Black to make up for it. Basically, is Blake being asked to patrol a lot more field than he should have to? I am hoping Burks gets back soon, is able to play well and we might see a much better Blake as well.

at least 2 that I was thinking of, were basically at him. They weren't trying to get thru the wash to cover outside runs or anything, these were pretty much right at the ILB's. One in particular was just a slide step to the right to fill the gap and he was completely neutralized by a blocker and a non factor. Didn't even make the runner bounce right or left

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That may be, but that would be a separate issue from his inability to handle blockers when the DL doesn't occupy them.

at least 2 that I was thinking of, were basically at him. They weren't trying to get thru the wash to cover outside runs or anything, these were pretty much right at the ILB's. One in particular was just a slide step to the right to fill the gap and he was completely neutralized by a blocker and a non factor. Didn't even make the runner bounce right or left

I agree with you both, there were times when Blake just didn't look like the guy we have seen in the past, but he did have some solid plays as well. One game of many and as I said after the game, when it came to the middle of the field, we stunk up the place like defenses of old. Let's see how he looks tonight and in the future when Burks comes back. I am fully expecting offenses to keep attacking that area of the field, until we do figure it out.

 

[Mondio]

for sure, when he has room to run and make plays, he's pretty good. He made a big play not long after I noted those other ones, had to fly over there and save a 3rd down play I think. Sure tackler.

 

[Pkrjones]

After watching last night's game in person I'm doing a complete 180 Degree pivot ~ Martinez is not worth low-end starting ILB money. The tackles he made against the Eagles were 5+ yards downfield and he was frequently washed-out of plays entirely. Gute has some work to do finding 2-3 ILB's that will hit the hole, take on blockers AND make a tackle at the Line of Scrimmage or behind. This has been a weak spot for years and continues being the D's achilles heel.