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Johnny Jolly reinstated, suspension lifted

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by adambr2, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    I don't see how having one possible offseason troublemaker would make us look like any sort of team that has big character issues. He got reinstated by Goddell that is good enough for me to want to give him a fair shake. People are capable of changing after all.
     
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  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You're right; the old deal was closer to $2.5 million, not that it matters. I wonder if the union rules would allow us to work him out before 3/12?
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Correction: The minimum is $715,000.
     
  4. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    If he gets arrested again we will cut him and it will be over and done with. Simple as that.

    Why would we be "above" helping a guy get his life on track? Jolly needs football more than ever. It certainly doesn't reflect poorly on this organization if they decide to stick with the guy and stand by him. Also, this is a little bit different circumstance than most ex-con's returning to the NFL. Not defending his crime, but it's not like the dude was out committing burglaries or assaulting women or running over people when drunk. He had a drug problem.

    Does anyone really hold the Eagles or Jets in low regard because they decided to give Vick or Burress another shot at life? If they do, they're few and far between, and those IMO were crimes less likely to be forgiven in the public eye.
     
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  5. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    Anyone who doesn't "forgive" Plexico Burress for shooting himself in the leg is cold hearted. As for the Vick stuff, I could care less.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    No its not as simple as that. It tarnishes the team for bringing back a repeat offender. fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

    I might be interested if he was a good player, but he was an avg starter.Then you sit him out 3 seasons. Really dude? This isnt kyle Williams or Ngata, this is a guy that was an avg starter 3 years ago.

    PFF graded him in 08 as a 0.0 then in 09 as a -6.9.

    I actually was rallying for the packers to sign vick because of the talent.
     
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  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Then again, Hargrove had 2 strikes for PED violations and the bounty issues hanging out there when we signed him. What happens at "fool me thrice"?

    I don't hold out much hope for Jolly, and we wouldn't be considering the possibility if our D-line was solid.

    But there is recent precedent for taking the low road, which drew little criticism here except perhaps from me.
     
  8. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    I just don't see how he can come back from 3 years off - it would be very difficult. Players say they work out and stay in shape but it isn't 'football shape'. I would bring him in, see how good of shape he is, find out what he has been doing with himself. I suspect he is on the straight and narrow, but still - its been 3 years of no football and I would not be surprised if the game has passed him by due to not playing.
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Did he ever get arrested? Or have that happen with the packers?
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Seems like a distinction without a difference. PED's represent a form of professional fraud; that it's not a jailable offense is hair splitting. And what difference does it make where it happens? If you take a guy on with a checkered past in another locale, it's still checkered.
     
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  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Sorry but breaking nfl rules doesn't = going to prison and repeat arrests.

    I'm blown away actually by how ridiculous that argument is.
     
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  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I`m no big fan of people involved with drugs, but JJ wasn`t dealing them, he was addicted, as was a previous player of ours. All I`m saying is the guy seemed to be trying to get his life back on track, and I personally think it would be a credit to OUR organisation to give him a chance to try and prove himself. Even offer him a chance to come and work on his own to show his dedication. If he doesn`t measure up, at least we gave him that chance.
     
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  13. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd rip up the old contract and resign him to a 2 year vet minimum no bonus deal. See what he looks like during OTA's into camp. 1st one out the door if he messes up or isn't worth it. Don't really need the roster spot and salary cap space until draft picks start signing anyway.
     
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  14. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    For once, I agree with you. Let the guy stand or fall on whether he can help the team on the field (and of course stay clean in the future).
     
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  15. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Everybody seems to have forgotten that Jolly was released from prison back in May. He's held up against addiction since then to the best of available knowledge, and that's plenty of time to start getting back into shape, especially when he was rumored a gym rat while in prison according to a friend of mine. He's only 8 lbs over his playing weight, and could possibly get in to football shape by the end of TC. Then again its still unlikely he's still a player.
     
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  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You're splitting hairs. It's not illegal to be a dysfunctional alcoholic, that's perfectly legal, that's no worse than codeine addition, and there are guys with that dysfunction roaming locker rooms even if you don't know about it. What's legal vs. illegal in the courts is not the question.

    It sounds like you'd be embarrassed by having an ex-con around. But not so much by a girlfriend beater who got off because the girl chose not to press charges...he did not go to jail so it must be OK?

    A two-time PED offender wrapped up in a head hunting scheme ought to be an affront to you as a fan. It's a dangerous thought, though. Who knows what will happen when they start testing for HGH.
     
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  17. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    I'm certainly not going to be an apologist for Johnny Jolly not avoiding repeat punishments from the NFL for conduct- he had clear direction to stop doing certain things, and stop being certain places, and he broke all those guidelines.

    The one thing that I do think is worth thinking about here is that he was convicted around possession of purple drank (snicker all you want). The problem with this is that the law treated this as a huge amount of codeine, and worthy of being looked at as grounds for trafficking, which is a whole other mess apart from simple possession. The law in Texas doesn't necessarily provide language to deal with new(er) narcotics, and uses existing language to hammer people when the punishment may not be the best fit for the crime.

    In terms of whether he should get a shot or not, the Packers haven't jettisoned his rights during his suspension. I think often about TT's treatment of Koren Robinson, who he brought in from Seattle as a FA despite a really tough time with alcohol and related charges/issues. Robinson used the opportunity provided to make real changes in his life and he was a stand up player for us while he was in uniform. He certainly wasn't a lasting solution, but he gave us quality reps at a price that was doable.

    As a GM, that's what you're looking for- value. If JJ can come in, show that physically he's ready to play football, he's worth the vet minimum to see if he can make the team. It's not like we're swimming in fantastic depth at DE, and frankly, before he got nailed the last time, he was batting down passes with regularity and played effectively in our base package despite not having Chris Canty prototypical measurements.

    Whether he makes the team really depends on whether or not he can prove he's one of the 6-7 best options we have along the DL. That's a tall order, but he's really 27 in terms of number of reps on the tires, much like Ricky Williams played younger that his age at RB because of the year or two he was "retired." He ran effectively well past 30, and most attribute that in part to the number of reps he didn't accumulate in those off years.

    Interesting stuff though. As much as I like the draft and develop, I think if you can get good quality reps at a real value price out of some vets until you can find that draft pick that represents a real upgrade in terms of on field execution and performance, I never forget how much the Patriots improved by signing a ton of little regarded FA's on their first SB run. Savvy signings like that seem a lost art, and I'm surprised that TT hasn't found a way to make better use of them.
     
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  18. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    This is LONG overdue IMO. I mean, if that prick Mike Vick can get reinstated as quickly as he did, Jolly certainly deserved reinstatement a long time ago.

    Hopefully the Packers at least give him a look. Whether he makes it or not is anyone's guess, but he at least deserves a tryout.
     
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  19. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

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    AMEN!!!
     
  20. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Yes, actually, I despise the Eagles for bringing that prick back. As long as that a$$hole is on that team, I will never root for them. And the public is far from silent over their discontent over his actions.
     
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  21. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    So the argument is just based on your subjective judgment on how bad the violation is? Is Vick (who you said you were hoping we would give another chance in the NFL) 4 times as bad because he spent 4 times as long in prison?

    Also, even if we're going to say that Jolly is just "average", if he can be average right now, vets minimum is a pretty good value for someone who can rotate on the D-line.

    And again -- let's look beyond just the black and white of the arrests and going to prison. Jolly is not a violent criminal. I don't think anyone would say that. Jolly is a guy who had a codeine problem. It's not like he was in school zones selling drugs to kids. He had an addiction.

    What is the harm of giving him a chance at the minimum to at least try to earn a spot in training camp? If he's not one of the top 53, then no harm no foul. Do you really think anyone is going to care or remember that we gave a former player with a former codeine problem a shot in training camp at a job? And if so, why would it be viewed negatively? No one is handing Jolly anything. If he can't hack it anymore, he's gone - we risk nothing. If he can and is willing to bust his butt for it and EARNS a spot, damn right he deserves that spot regardless of his past.
     
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  22. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Another ignorance on my part here, but what is it about weight he can lift ??? the speed I can understand.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It tells you whether he's been, umm, in the weight room.
     
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  24. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Wow, I would never have guessed that in a million years......lol England 0-1 U.S.A Is there anything it can tell us about the guys suitability to play in the NFL ?
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It means he's been interested in maintaining his conditioning and strength.

    NFL players don't walk off the farm looking the way they do. Lifting begins in high school; the elite "national" programs have college-level weight rooms and training. These guys are working to get into an elite college program. And then from college to the NFL.

    Weight training is an integral part of being an NFL player. If you don't do it, you better be a natural star (rare)...or your work ethic will be questioned and you won't last.
     

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