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Jared Allen

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by thequick12, Mar 11, 2014.

  1. paulska

    paulska Cheesehead

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    What does having perspective about the kind of QB Eli is have to do with having an inflated view of Dilfer and Johnson?

    Both of the latter are examples of QBs who were efficient and error free at their best, and both had their greatest successes with teams that played to those strengths while fielding tremendous defenses which meant they rarely had to play from behind or press for scores in their strongest seasons. Neither of them excelled when they had to be the reason their team won.

    All I was trying to say is that too many people, in my view, have an overinflated view of what Eli actually is, based on the complete body of his work, because he won two SB's. There's no question he caught lightning in a bottle TWICE to win those, and he played unreal football for those stretches. I'm just amazed at how many people look exclusively at those stretches and feel they are the defining aspect of his career and capability- there are HUGE chunks of regular season play that contradict those moments to a profound degree.

    Connect the dots for me on how holding that one opinion means I'm blindly overestimating the respective talents of Dilfer and Johnson?
     
  2. Forderick

    Forderick Cheesehead

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    Pretty sure I didn't say Ted doesn't sign free agents, He rarely does.

    The patriots since Bill came in and started using all 3 avenues of acquiring talent ,have won 3 super bowls been in another 2. so when you look at the time they started doing that, yes they are a lot more successful than the packers.

    Being one and done, at this point, isn't good enough anymore. The defence still has a lot of work to do. I don't understand how people since winning the super bowl are happy with just making the playoffs. I just feel the packers are wasting away another great QB by not building a rock solid team around him. I don't expect a super bowl win every year but I expect better than one and done.
     
  3. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I want to win a Super Bowl every year. Am I happy that the Packers make the playoffs every year? Absolutely. Am I content with JUST making the playoffs every year? No.

    The defense does have alot of work to do but can you predict the future? Do you have any idea how Datone, Hayward, Daniels, Hyde will progress? Do you know how Peppers will factor in? The defense needs a healthy Clay also. This defense isn't void of talent by any means, guys are there they need to step up and hopefully stay healthy. To expect this defense to be a mirror image of Seattle is beyond ridiculous due to the offensive talent we have and are/will be paying that talent in the next 2 years.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It´s not ridiculous though to expect more of the Packers defense as we actually have committed more cap space into the defense for next year than the Seahawks.

    I think there´s a misconception about the Packers that they actually pay the offense a lot of money. Right now, our offense ranks 28th in salary cap hit for 2014 in the league while our defense ranks 8th.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  5. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I expect more of the Packers D believe me, I'm not trying to come off as giving them a pass at all my apologies if I am. Seattle right now has less committed but Sherman and Thomas are making peanuts compared to what they will be. They also let go of a couple guys I'm assuming to prepare for Sherman and Thomas. But valid point none the less.

    Your 2nd point- That's why I said "are/will be paying" when it comes to paying the offense. Once Jordy and Cobb Bulaga are resigned assuming they all are I would assume that puts them somewhere in the top 10.
     
  6. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    Ouch!
    I have been suffering under that misconception.
    Now I feel even worse about the Packers defense.
    Hopefully the defense can stay healthy this year and turn things around.
     
  7. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I noticed Capt said for 2014 which will include the Peppers, Shield, Neil signings along with Matthews and Williams costing more.
     
  8. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

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    Your best example is from 1998? Really? And you're going to ignore the TONS of counter examples of teams spending on big names and ending up broke and horrible for years and years? You're reminding me of those dummies in the gas station blowing tons of dough on lottery tickets. "Hey, sure the odds are long, but what if I win!". Motto of the perpetual loser.
     
  9. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    More like ""Hey, sure the odds are long and we won't be able to field competitive rosters for years to come because we'll be in cap he##, but what if I win!"
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    http://www.spotrac.com/cap-tracker/nfl/2014/

    This says off is 27 and def is 1st

    But its late and Im tired might be reading wrong
     
  11. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Looking at the defense without Clay out last season, the cap for the defense would have been 17th. So even without Clay, the defense didn't live up to the cap number.

    Anybody have any possible explanations as to why the defense was good early in the season and then dropped off? Did Rodgers going out send a shock through the entire team, not just the offense? To me, they have the ability to be good, but for some reason weren't the last part of the year, with some exceptions.
     
  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I don´t think anybody inside 1265 has any idea about why their play dropped off like that after Rodgers went down.
     
  14. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I was fine with it when they let him go but now think it was a mistake to let Charles go. I competely understand that his on the field play had fallen off somewhat but the intangibles he brought were missed. That's not to say that we would have been a top 5 D had he been kept but I do believe now that they would have been better.
     
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The majority of fans were on board with letting Woodson go at the time. He was starting to get burned as a CB and it wasn't a slam dunk that he would make the transition to safety, yet his cap number was big. They made a mistake by not approaching him about a cap-friendly reduction, but hindsight is what makes the move questionable. We had two young safeties and odds were that one would take hold. Both failed. That's the real clincher.

    I did a lot of data crunching last season regarding the defense. There was no smoking gun about why and when the defense crumbled. It did not directly correlate with Rodgers going down, or Clay, or losing Jones/Francois, etc. I'm sure it was a combination of all those factors and more. The coaches could go nuts trying to identify the causes, and hopefully they have some ideas, but overall they just need to keep it all glued together better. You can't prevent injuries in a dangerous sport, only minimize their impacts. In basketball when the other team gets on a roll, you call a timeout. The coaches need to do the NFL equivalent when they see the defense falling apart.
     
  16. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    He wanted to stay, in fact he told his agent to go to TT and tell them he wanted to stay and was willing to rework his deal in order to do so.
     
  17. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Possible: Arod kept the offense on the field longer giving the D time to rest or go over much needed photos from dom upstairs. When you plugged in tolzein and that bum wallace at QB, there were many 3 and outs and or shorter drives that didnt allow the D to rest. Being unable to sustain a drive on offense also allows the opposing D to be more rested. I think the D also suffered an " oh crap" arod is gone and that did shock them as well. He is not just the offensive leader, he is the face of the team as well.
     
    • Old Old x 1
  18. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I have to agree with El Guapo though that most fans were fine with the Packers letting him go.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    Agree, and I was one of them at the time but I do think it was a mistake looking back.
     
  20. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I'd definitely say the offense not on the field was the case in the Detroit game. They had like 9 straight drives which were a 3 and out or a turnover.
     
  21. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Hmm.....maybe I am right....lol
     
    • Old Old x 1
  22. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Like a lot of moves a GM makes, you have to trust that you've drafted young guys to take over for the aging veterans. When it works in the Favre-to-Rodgers case, you're a genius. The Woodson situation went the other way. It's less about the decision itself and more about the guys expected to fill the role.
     
  23. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    That's the real mystery of last season IMO. Add in the D's good performance against the 49ers in the playoffs without Clay, Neal, and Shields (and even Mulumba was playing on a bad knee before he had to leave) and I really don’t have any idea what went so wrong for that long stretch. No doubt a combination of things as El Guapo suggests.

    Packer Update has a new feature which may help to explain it over time:
    http://packerupdate.net/?cat=433

    Evely is reviewing the defense for every game last season. He’s done 5 games so far. I’ve only skimmed a couple but will spend more time on them and I’ll be interested in others’ reviews of his work. BTW, he lists the music he listened to while doing the review.

    BTW, I have no connection whatever to Packer Update aside from reading it and finding it interesting. For example the site’s owner Michael Rodney, a former sportswriter, has a blurb on the site saying he doesn’t think Ebron is a great fit for the Packers and that if Mosely is cleared medically, he’d be a steal at #21. He writes Mosely would be an upgrade at ILB like "dating Kate Upton nine months after breaking up with Melissa McCarthy". :D
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  24. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

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    Thanks Thx good stuff.
     

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