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It's become so clear

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by doughsellz, Nov 1, 2009.

  1. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    Well seven TD passes says it all. It's time to face the reality that GB gave up on #4 too soon. Half a season's worth of stats say he's not only at the top of his game, but near the top of the league. On pace for 4,000 yards passing & 32 TDs to go with 6 INTs, at the helm of a 7-1 team that is pulling away from it's competition in the NFC North. MVP worthy to say the least.

    TT also gave up too early on the team he inherited. In his haste to build his own legacy he dismantled a division champion because $$$ was more important than winning. The cap has been his only success story, & that does what for the team on game day? Riiiiiight.

    So where does this leave our Packers? Rodgers appears to be slightly better than adequate, showing signs of a sophomore slump. His good stats come with regularity but it's not enough to win consistently. Two home losses already in '09 with wins against the dregs of the league & CHI, but I'm being redundant now.

    The switch to the 3-4 defense has a built-in excuse for TT & his supporters to clamor for more time to let things develop. That side of the ball is equally inconsistent in '09. I thought Bigby's return today would make the difference. Instead it got worse.

    So where does this leave our Packers? After 7 games Rodgers has been sacked more than 30 times! He looked very indecisive today as opposed to his counterpart who appeared as composed & comfortable as ever.

    So where does this leave our Packers? I'm at a crossroads now. I can't imagine myself not rooting for my Packers. My avatar shows me as a very small child falling asleep with my birthday present on my noggin - an early '60s era Packers' helmet, complete with bulging earholes & no "G" logo - a fan from the very beginning. Today I seeth at the thought of what TT has done with this team. It's not the same organization that it used to be. The fan base has never been this divided.

    So where does this leave our Packers?
     
  2. 3irty1

    3irty1 Fear the Dreads!

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    As said in many many many other posts. The packers would be worse off with Favre right now. Yeah he's doing great. The guy still has the cannon arm, and has the accuracy. But as you said, Roger's has been sacked 30 times. Favre would be injured if he took the hits Roger's has been taking.

    Yeah, Our O-line sucks, Yeah TT sucks at improving through free agents and is very hit or miss with draft picks. Yeah MM sucks at making critical changes at Half time or any time during the game. How would ANY of this change if Favre was on the team instead of Rogers?

    Minnesota has an unstoppable linebacker core, a beast for a running back, and their back-up would start on most NFL teams, and now they have both a QB and some recievers. OK, they got good this season, but that still doesn't mean the Packers are ruined. Get a wildcard and move on.

    If you wanna switch teams cause we lost to a division rival at home then go ahead, but I don't see why all our problems come from Favre RETIRING, and us moving onto a QB that is YOUNGER, and JUST AS GOOD if not better.

    Just my 2 cents.
     
  3. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    It's clear - the Vikings are better. However, Green Bay doesn't have to play Minnesota anymore in the regular season. GB has an easy schedule and should make the playoffs as a wild card. I can't think of very many other NFC teams Green Bay couldn't beat - they'd probably struggle with Philly and New Orleans, but I can see them beating the Giants and Dallas if it came down to it in the playoffs. The Cowboys-Giants-Eagles still have additional losses coming because they have more game to play amongst each other. Atlanta? I'm not sold on 'em because they have Philly, New York G's and the Saints twice.

    The Vikings tried like hell again today to give the game away, but they did enough on offense to keep the pressure on. Minny really needs to address the second half let-down because it is going to bit them in the azz when they can ill-afford it - like maybe in the playoffs. I would hate to have to face Green Bay AGAIN this year. Remember when the Packers spanked Minny twice during the regular season only to succumb to Moss' full moon in the playoffs??? Again, how many rushes for no gain did All Day have again today??? There's gonna come a day of reckoning when Minnesota is going to have to rely on AD instead of Favre - they need to get the run-blocking tweaked, if that is possible.

    I thought Rodgers played as well as he could have played again today. He isn't Favre, so to expect Favre-like decision making is unfair. Just like the first game, when he got time, he carved up Minny's secondary.

    I suppose TT still hasn't learned his lesson about nickel-diming on the O-line, but we're witnessing the extent to which TT underestimates the importance of a stout O-line. All those 1st round DT's and 2nd round WR's - it is the sole reason why Green Bay isn't undefeated at this point. Now, we're reduced to having to write off another season - now by this I don't mean Green Bay can't pull it together, but I'm talking from practical standpoint. As a GM, you have to learn to play to your A-player's strengths and for Rodgers that means giving him time to throw. He's not the improvisational type that Favre is. So, by writing off another year, all you do is see your A-players a year longer in the tooth, forces the O-line to be a major priority in FA or the draft, and then you still have to cover normal attrition due to retirement, etc. Cliffy could be done any year now, Tausch the same, Driver is getting up there, Al Harris and Woody are no spring chickens either.

    I still say Green Bay makes the playoffs and say that without hesitation.
     
  4. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    The team around Favre is miles better than the team around Rodgers. I said it today to a Favre supporter, put Favre on the Packers and there's no difference at all except that Favre might be dead by now.
     
  5. Munny

    Munny Cheesehead

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    It means it is time to bring up the TT debate. In my opinion it is time for is tenure to be ended with force.

    MM is not a premier coach either. I would also point out the D change with a few key position players suited more for a 4-3 instead of a 3-4. Many many bad decisions are rearing their ugly head.

    We have a very talented youthful team, it is time to let someone else take the reigns IMO.

    I would also like to point out, our team would be in the same, if not worse position with Favre behind the helm.

    Our GM and Coach are where we need to look at this point in time, period.
     
  6. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    No way is Rodgers BETTER than Favre. That was PROVEN today. This is why many people shake their heads at you Packer fans. You just don't make SENSE sometimes...That is just an excuse that he has a bad O-Line.

    What do you think Favre had to work with in 2007?

    There was no running game, and Favre had about the same pass protection.

    The difference is that he read the defenses and GOT RID OF THE BALL in under 3 seconds. I know, I used to count how fast he got the ball off that year. That's why Favre is better than Rodgers, and today you saw that he is STILL better.

    Live it. Learn it. Know it. Don't bet against THE FAVRE!!!:rotfl:
     
  7. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    Well, as I've stated several times before, Favre gives you 1 to 3 critical plays at critical junctures that Rodgers does not. That translates into moving the sticks, which then leads to points.

    Favre had a boatload of them again today - that pass to Harvin for the TD - Rodgers would never had attempted that throw. The sweet pass to Berrian for the TD where he put a bit of air underneath the ball and threw it to Berrian's backside, thereby giving him time to react and reach back to adjust and make a play. These plays often go un-asterisked in the play books, but they are what separates Favre from Rodgers.

    Where Thompson erred was in not understanding this within the context of his O-line. Rodgers is steadfast and deadly with time, but he's not good when he's made to feel uncomfortable. Green Bay's current line was built - for the most part - assuming Favre was under center (the injuries to Cliffy and Tausch notwithstanding). Thompson thought Rodgers would do as well or better than Favre, but he completely misread these "extra plays" Favre gives the offense.

    At any rate, Green Bay is still pretty doggone solid and remember they don't face a Minnesota-like D-line every week - although I'm sure Rodgers doesn't mind that porous secondary Minny fields. Even when Winfield started, they still gave up huge chunks of passing yardage and passing TD's.
     
  8. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    2007 was the year Ryan Grant broke out. He had a running game for 10 games of that year at least. Hell, Grant ran for 200 against Seattle in the playoffs. I will give you that Favre and the defense carried that team early in the season though.
     
  9. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Favre might have started well but he was doing well with the Jets at this point last season, how did they finish up again? Oh yeah The Dolphins made the playoffs without them.

    Why is there loads of topics on the same thing?
     
  10. Veretax

    Veretax Cheesehead

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    I oh so disagree. Favre hid this O-lines problems the last year he was here. We all knew it when we let him go. But I do not agree that Favre would do worse. Favre is a better QB right now than Rodgers is right now. Now over all which one will be better? That I can't answer as its too soon to tell, but to say he'd have done the same, sorry I disagree.
     
  11. OHIOFAN

    OHIOFAN Cheesehead

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    Favre is on a better TEAM. Put Rodgers on that TEAM and they would win the Super Bowl. The O-line of the Vikings gave Favre so much time for most of the game. I know that if Favre had to deal with the pressure Rodgers did he would have thrown 5 pics. The sad part is the Pack got out coached by a guy that people were poking fun at last year. I hope the Pack drafts some much needed O-line and RB help.
     
  12. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    How do you "explain" that FAVRE was on the SAME TEAM in 2007 and went 14-3, and went to the NFCC Game then, OHIO?

    Anyone..anyone...

    Buehler?
     
  13. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Sigh why do we have to keep having these type of threads and posts?

    For one PACK66

    Brett did nothing to win 3 of those games in 07..Go re -read the box scores and play by plays. ..So stop with the Brett go them to 14-3...If not for the D and sp in those 3 games they lose...

    That is not saying they wouldnt have made the playoffs...I am saying he should get no credit for 3 games....Philly and Washington come to mind..

    See how that works? He needs the other parts of the team to help him win..Has Rodgers get the same help?

    And stop with te same team crap...You are aware that there was a more than just Brett gone..Go look it up..might suprise you to leanr how many starters from 07 were gone in 08
     
  14. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    OHIONFAN is right. This is why I really didnt want to check this forum today because it was going to be plastered with Favre better than Rodgers blah blah blah. First and foremost, no one has stated facts but yet this argument is taking place. I just tried to copy and paste both players stat lines but it didnt really work out so I will post some key stats.


    First Rodgers is the 6th ranked QB followed by Favre at 7 EVEN THOUGH THE VIKES BEAT THE PACK TWICE. WINS AND LOSSES ARENT COUNTED TOWARDS STATS. THE TEAM WON. NOT FAVRE, THE PACK LOST NOT RODGERS. Rodgers has more yards and avgs more per throw and catch. Favre has better completion rate. Rodgers throws for more yds p/g. Favre has 2 more TD passes than Rodgers, but more INT's. Rodgers has been sacked 31 times to Favres dismal 18. Finally RODGERS has a better QB Rating than Favre and Favre has more attempted passes and completions.

    Why do you guys just shoot off at the mouth. Give me a break and get over this!!!! The vikings won and the packers lost. There are 8 more games to play.
     
  15. DILLIGAFF

    DILLIGAFF Cheesehead

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    Why can't we put some blame on A-rods shoulders rather than throwing the rest of the unnamed players under the bus.

    We are not going to get better as a team if A-rod does not get better along with the rest of the team. A-rod took 3 unnecessary sacks and one sack he could have fell forward for a 1st and goal but he held up for a pass and took a sack. A big game decision, a possible pass on 3rd down or a 1st and goal on the 5 yard line. BF would have at least attempted the throw.

    Instead A-rod takes a sack and we kick the field goal. Thats just plain indecision on A-rods part. You attempt the pass or keep running for the almost certain first down on a third down play.

    That was the turning point of the game, along with the defensive penalty on Johnny Jolly head butt.
     
  16. JeffQuery

    JeffQuery Banned Banned

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    Statistics don't win football games (except in Fantasy Football), POINTS do! (As in 4 TD'S).

    This isn't fantasy football. Just ask Jeff George, Tony Romo, and Aaron Rodgers....

    Wow..some of you guys need to get a grip!:rotfl:
     
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  17. fromphilly

    fromphilly Cheesehead

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    I don't see the evidence to suggest that AR is somehow tougher than Favre ... were you kidding with that comment?

    Anwyay we're still 4-3 ... remember that. Season's not over.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Of course stats dont win...

    but arent TDs a stat?
     
  19. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Longtime Wins this round by TKO!
     
  20. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    It takes somone on the other end of those BF passes to catch the ball correct? So to say BF is purely responsible for 4 TD's (one of which was an AP rush) is ignorant. My post (if you read it ) was aimed at the BF vs AR debate, not winning football games. I said in my post the GB lost to MINNY. No where did I say that GB should have won because AR is a better QB. It is a TEAM sport no individual as some people here have made it.
     
  21. Green_Bay_Packers

    Green_Bay_Packers Cheesehead

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    Am I the only one who finds this debate boring?

    Rodgers is out of Favre's shadow I dont care what anyone says. Rodgers is a great QB so is Favre what does it matter?
     
  22. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    This was my suggestion
     
  23. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    I can't believe what I'm reading from some of you. Rodgers hasn't developed an essential QB intangible & that's pocket awareness. How many times did you scratch your head yesterday after he took yet another sack? Was it REALLY the O-line or was it Rodgers simply not properly using what his line was giving him? The pocket will NEVER be picture perfect.

    There were times when stepping up into the pocket would have been beneficial yesterday, or side-stepping or just being more aggressive with his footwork. #4 has unbelievable pocket awareness. He isn't fast but a QB doesn't have to be. Agility & quickness will keep your jersey clean longer than just having the speed to run away.

    Rodgers started moving better in the 2nd half & things got better for the offense. He's got to get it going consistently if GB wants to be playing in January.

    BTW I'm not insinuating that the O-line is not partly to blame. There's still a lot of PT required to get all 5 guys gelling. Once GB settles on a group & the injuries heal they'll be that much closer to they're goal.
     
  24. doughsellz

    doughsellz Cheesehead

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    Denial is alive & well here today, as expected. How you can't comprehend that #4 was the difference between GB winning & losing yesterday is mesmerizing.
     
  25. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    You're right. A majority of the sacks yesterday were on Rodgers. He held the ball awhile and it killed him. I can only really recall 2 or 3 of them where it was lack of protection (the one where TJ Lang simply forgot to block Jared Allen comes to mind).

    But here's the thing. Favre wasn't exactly one to just throw the ball away a lot of the time. He'd force it to a receiver before he'd do that, resulting in the interceptions we came to know and love.

    So which would you rather have? The sacks or the picks? Because Rodgers would throw it if someone would get open, Favre would often throw it no matter what.
     

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