Is MM on the hot seat for 2016

[adambr2]

Or if Adams and Jones didn't drop balls in the end zone at the end of the game, or Crosby didn't pooch kick a 50 yard field goal, we'd be 12-4.

Rodgers the 31 TDs to 8 INTs with no #1 receiver and a slug of a TE, yet it's his fault this team wasn't better.

This isn't a thread to play the blame game on which players were most responsible for our record in 2015. My only comment on Rodgers was that the best QB in the NFL didn't always play like it this year, which I think was obvious to anyone watching this season. Never did I say it was his fault. We're all well aware that many players across the board on our offense share the blame for our offensive struggles.

Also, for as much hate as that slug of a TE gets, he was only the 4th TE in Packers history (who have had guys like Finley, Chmura, Keith Jackson, and Jackie Harris), to top 55 receptions in a season, and has the most TDs in his first 2 seasons by any Packer TE in history. So if you're going to use Aaron's stats to defend him, it's only fair to not ignore Richard's to put him down.

 

[longtimefan]

Why do we need another mm thread...

 

[RRyder]

Why is it that any one critical of a coach, team or players is a 'hater'?

Well when most say they hate him and/or his coaching philosophy I'd say it counts

 

[MadCat]

How about we keep him until the Packers stop making playoffs multiple years?

Let's just keep him forever. If enough years go by, all of us will eventually learn to be perfectly satisfied each year with a winning record, a disappointing playoff loss, and a position coach or two identified and fired. It will probably work best only if we keep DC and TT forever too, of course. No big deal, there will be 53 other guys we can blame for standing in the way of their success.

 

[TJV]

The truth is with Aaron at quarterback I could probably win 10 games as head coach.

 

[Packer Fan in SD]

Let's just keep him forever. If enough years go by, all of us will eventually learn to be perfectly satisfied each year with a winning record, a disappointing playoff loss, and a position coach or two identified and fired. It will probably work best only if we keep DC and TT forever too, of course. No big deal, there will be 53 other guys we can blame for standing in the way of their success.

Over the last 7 years I believe there are 30 other franchises that would love to be in our position. 30. And the other one has exactly as many Super Bowl wins as us.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

By the way I can play with numbers too.

McCarthy not counting Super Bowl Seasons - 4-7 .364 winning percentage

McCarthy - 5 of his 7 playoff losses were on the final play of the game - this tells me that his teams are no prepared to win, they are prepared to falter when it matters the most whether the defense or the offense is on the field.

Once again, it doesn´t make any sense to exclude the 2010 playoffs when talking about McCarthy´s postseason record. The Packers losing five of seven playoff games on the last play of the game tells me that the team was competitve in nearly all of them and had some bad luck going against them.

 

[XPack]

Meh. I don't think he's going anywhere. Who would you replace him with?

Precisely.

/Thread

 

[Half Empty]

How about we keep him until the Packers stop making playoffs multiple years?

Check your own motto. Chasing perfection in favorable conditions year after year and achieving it once doesn't seem to live up to it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now on the other hand, if you have the best talent in the league.... And never win a super bowl wouldn't that say something as well?

Well said. This is where people need to look first before screaming "Fire MM". What has he done with the talent that he has? IMO, we may have one of the best QB's in the league and a top linebacker in Clay, but beyond that, every other player falls somewhere below that. Top to bottom we have good depth, but I would debate anyone that said "The Packers have the best talent in the league".

There are many coaches in the NFL that through the years have had a more talented roster and done less with it then MM has. We may not be winning Super Bowls every year, but every year MM coaches the players he has and continues to put enough W's up to be in contention for Super Bowls.

 

[Half Empty]

Over the last 7 years I believe there are 30 other franchises that would love to be in our position. 30. And the other one has exactly as many Super Bowl wins as us.

Hey, if being better than the other guys is your goal, fine by me, more power to you. One the other hand, the Packers are my team, I don't care what the other guys do, I want mine to take every opportunity to the limit. I'll bet nearly everyone in the forum can immediately tell you how many NFL championships the Pack has and the number of Super Bowls. Ask about winning percentage, the number of division championships, the number of playoffs appearances, and I'm confident it's take most of us a while.

 

[pacmaniac]

Here's what Florio said:

http://www.nbcsports.com/video/mike...ter-another-green-bay-packers-playoff-failure

Hard to disagree with that - MM has had both Favre and Rodgers for a decade, and somehow only has 1 Super Bowl appearance.

My opinion is that he sucks. He's good compared to bad coaches, but bad compared to good ones. A team with a good coach doesn't lose that many close games in the 4th/OT. We can blame the players for mistakes, but isn't it up to the coaches to make sure everyone is on the right page to eliminate mistakes?

That makes sense. MM is just an average coach, he's not a good coach.

How is that so unfathomable? Most owners don't accept failure. Since 2010, McCarthy hasn't proven the ability to win close games in the playoffs.

MM snuck up on everyone as the 6 seed in 2010. Since then, everyone has figured him out, and he's lost a lot of playoff games when the Packers are favored.

For some reason, probably because MM is so even keeled, that we don't see him very upset about anything. We see some frustration, but not really any anger coming out of him. I think a lot of people read that as perhaps not being fully invested or lacking fire or something. I think this is a mistake.

Is there a complacency with the Packers? Are TT and MM just happy to make the playoffs every year? We are like the Atlanta Braves of the 90s - make the playoffs every year, but have a postseason disappointment every single year except for one year. We shouldn't be like the Bears, who would be happy just to make the playoffs. We are the Packers, and our standards should be higher than that.

 

[Un4GivN]

Well said. This is where people need to look first before screaming "Fire MM". What has he done with the talent that he has? IMO, we may have one of the best QB's in the league and a top linebacker in Clay, but beyond that, every other player falls somewhere below that. Top to bottom we have good depth, but I would debate anyone that said "The Packers have the best talent in the league".

There are many coaches in the NFL that through the years have had a more talented roster and done less with it then MM has. We may not be winning Super Bowls every year, but every year MM coaches the players he has and continues to put enough W's up to be in contention for Super Bowls.

That's the hard part about it all... Coaches job is to make the team better. It's so hard to judge from the outside what he is getting out of the talent that he has in house.

So perhaps he is getting more out of his players than he should. I just think winning percentage is completely over-rated. You give me the Bengals "talent" I could guide babysit them to 9 wins. They are loaded.

Look at Dallas, excluding this year they have all the talent in the world but never achieve. To me that is obvious coaching problem.

 

[scotscheese]

at the end of the day in any sport, the head coach/manager of any team has to carry the can when it comes to the onfield performances of his team. If this was a football)soccer) team in Englandshire, MM would quite likely have gotten fired a couple of years ago. getting to the championship game last year would have earned any head coach an extra year to try and at least match getting to the championship game.

i'm not necessarily saying MM should be fired, but i think he has to hold a lot of responsibility when it has come to the pack underperforming, and i think apart from 2014/2015 the team has not acheived what most would have expected given the talent on the roster, and this is where MM is lucky to be where he is, as an owner would probably have sacked his *** by now

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I understand this kind of talk about MM when the whole season is discussed, but I don't agree when the sole argument is "fire MM because he lost again in the playoffs". This is the first season in recent memory under MM, where I think a lot of us were scratching our heads and wondering WTF was wrong with the Packers and I can see putting some of that on MM, but not enough to say fire him. But being 1-2 boneheaded plays (made by players not MM) away from being in another Super Bowl last year and being very close to returning to the NFCCG once again this year, I can't use the "lack of winning the Super Bowl" as an argument to fire MM.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

MM snuck up on everyone as the 6 seed in 2010. Since then, everyone has figured him out, and he's lost a lot of playoff games when the Packers are favored.

The Packers were only favoured in one of the playoff games they´ve lost since winning the Super Bowl (Giants 2011).

 

[Ogsponge]

Once again, it doesn´t make any sense to exclude the 2010 playoffs when talking about McCarthy´s postseason record. The Packers losing five of seven playoff games on the last play of the game tells me that the team was competitve in nearly all of them and had some bad luck going against them.

I do get that, I don't like doing that. However my point is that if you take a away one year of what was frankly overachieving and look at his other 9 years of work you have 9 years of under achieving and inexplicable (at times) losses in the playoffs.

My only real point is that people around here have a tendency to completely over look the simple fact that whether or not the packers have made the playoffs in blah, blah, blah it has been mostly under performing, outside of one great year, McCarthy has not been a good playoff coach, in fact he has been down right terrible.

I am perplexed how people cannot see and admit that. That's all.

 

[Un4GivN]

I do value your opinion. You always talk about let's keep him. There is no one better. He's never on the hot seat. Why do you find MM to be better than any other coach?

Take out winning percentage, what has he done to earn so much trust from you. How are you so sure that he is getting the most from his players and his talent on the team?

Once again I don't want to hear about how far they made it in the playoffs. I want things like you think his offense is brillant, or he has the respect of everyone in the locker room. Or whatever just not win percentage. Just very curious

 

[TJV]

I do value your opinion. You always talk about let's keep him. There is no one better. He's never on the hot seat. Why do you find MM to be better than any other coach? Take out winning percentage, what has he done to earn so much trust from you. How are you so sure that he is getting the most from his players and his talent on the team? Once again I don't want to hear about how far they made it in the playoffs. I want things like you think his offense is brillant, or he has the respect of everyone in the locker room. Or whatever just not win percentage. Just very curious

Way to take the out of context. That was with regard to your preposterous post, “The truth is with Aaron at quarterback I could probably win 10 games as head coach.” That’s a joke whether you realize it or not and definitely not "the truth". Also please quote the post in which I wrote or implied that McCarthy is "better than any other coach"? (Why do you continually do this? Can you just not help yourself?)

What was my first post on this thread? “Are either Thompson or McCarthy on the hot seat in 2016? LIKE IT OR NOT, no.” (I changed the part you apparently missed to all caps.) It’s my opinion neither is on the hot seat in 2016. It’s my opinion the earliest either will be on the hot seat is 2017 if their contracts do indeed run through 2018.

I don’t “always talk about” anything regarding McCarthy. I’ve criticized McCarthy as well as praised him. I wouldn’t call his offense “brilliant” but it has been damn good over his tenure as HC/OC/play caller. As captainWIMM posted, his offenses are ranked third in the league in points scored. That’s damn good IMO. Unlike some, I give McCarthy credit for developing Rodgers because I saw Rodgers when he arrived in Green Bay. Perhaps you think I “always talk about let’s keep him” because you put more emphasis on my posts responding to posters who only want to compare him to the best – by far – HC in the league, than those in which I criticize him. (When his career is over, Belichick will go down as one of the top two or three or four HCs of all time IMO. BTW, the fact that Belichick respects McCarthy should carry some weight.) Or when I respond to posters who think McCarthy is a terrible HC, and post as if almost anyone would be an upgrade. Or to posters who hold the ridiculous opinion that they, with absolutely zero NFL coaching experience could be the HC of the Packers and win 10 games in a season with Rodgers as QB.

I think McCarthy could be better in-game. I advocated for Capers firing seasons ago but I don't think an evaluation of McCarthy should exclude an evaluation of Thompson's acquisition of talent, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Overall I think McCarthy is a good HC. He could be better and from everything I've read, seen, and heard he works at getting better. Unless Belichick is available I don't think there's an obvious upgrade available but I do worry about HCs with one team for too long being tuned out by the players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I do get that, I don't like doing that. However my point is that if you take a away one year of what was frankly overachieving and look at his other 9 years of work you have 9 years of under achieving and inexplicable (at times) losses in the playoffs.

My only real point is that people around here have a tendency to completely over look the simple fact that whether or not the packers have made the playoffs in blah, blah, blah it has been mostly under performing, outside of one great year, McCarthy has not been a good playoff coach, in fact he has been down right terrible.

I am perplexed how people cannot see and admit that. That's all.

There´s no denying the Packers have underperformed in the playoffs since winning the Super Bowl but I mostly blame that on a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[pacmaniac]

BTW, the fact that Belichick respects McCarthy should carry some weight.

Don't trust what Belichick says. His comments are self-serving. Just like how he said Seattle throwing the ball instead of running Lynch in the SB was a great play call. Just like how I, as a Packers fan, will say that Jay Cutler is a great QB and I hope the Bears never get rid of him.

 

[Ogsponge]

There´s no denying the Packers have underperformed in the playoffs since winning the Super Bowl but I mostly blame that on a lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball.

You really think it is all talent? I personally thing there are some coaching issues on both sides of the ball causing problems. Let's not forget that the offense also had a tendency to be rather poor in the playoffs as well. Certainly not as stunningly bad in the final moments of a game as the defense but subpar for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You really think it is all talent? I personally thing there are some coaching issues on both sides of the ball causing problems. Let's not forget that the offense also had a tendency to be rather poor in the playoffs as well. Certainly not as stunningly bad in the final moments of a game as the defense but subpar for sure.

Agreed about the offense underperforming in the playoffs but while McCarthy deserve some of the blame for it Rodgers hasn´t played up to his potential either. Aside of the 2012 desaster at San Francisco (after which I would have understood firing him) I don´t blame Capers for the defensive shortcomings in playoff games as the unit clearly has lacked talent for several seasons.

 

[Un4GivN]

Way to take the out of context. That was with regard to your preposterous post, “The truth is with Aaron at quarterback I could probably win 10 games as head coach.” That’s a joke whether you realize it or not and definitely not "the truth". Also please quote the post in which I wrote or implied that McCarthy is "better than any other coach"? (Why do you continually do this? Can you just not help yourself?)

What was my first post on this thread? “Are either Thompson or McCarthy on the hot seat in 2016? LIKE IT OR NOT, no.” (I changed the part you apparently missed to all caps.) It’s my opinion neither is on the hot seat in 2016. It’s my opinion the earliest either will be on the hot seat is 2017 if their contracts do indeed run through 2018.

I don’t “always talk about” anything regarding McCarthy. I’ve criticized McCarthy as well as praised him. I wouldn’t call his offense “brilliant” but it has been damn good over his tenure as HC/OC/play caller. As captainWIMM posted, his offenses are ranked third in the league in points scored. That’s damn good IMO. Unlike some, I give McCarthy credit for developing Rodgers because I saw Rodgers when he arrived in Green Bay. Perhaps you think I “always talk about let’s keep him” because you put more emphasis on my posts responding to posters who only want to compare him to the best – by far – HC in the league, than those in which I criticize him. (When his career is over, Belichick will go down as one of the top two or three or four HCs of all time IMO. BTW, the fact that Belichick respects McCarthy should carry some weight.) Or when I respond to posters who think McCarthy is a terrible HC, and post as if almost anyone would be an upgrade. Or to posters who hold the ridiculous opinion that they, with absolutely zero NFL coaching experience could be the HC of the Packers and win 10 games in a season with Rodgers as QB.

I think McCarthy could be better in-game. I advocated for Capers firing seasons ago but I don't think an evaluation of McCarthy should exclude an evaluation of Thompson's acquisition of talent, particularly on the defensive side of the ball. Overall I think McCarthy is a good HC. He could be better and from everything I've read, seen, and heard he works at getting better. Unless Belichick is available I don't think there's an obvious upgrade available but I do worry about HCs with one team for too long being tuned out by the players.

Lol I wasn't taken it out of context man... Just not much to reply to that. I understood what you meant. But was hoping you would write more like this

I think we would likely rate coaches different. I see McCarthy as average... To slightly above. To me his offense is very vanilla and it relies on top end talent to be consistently good. I also thing he has gotten some laziness to it, the offense doesn't look much different this year than any year in the past. I think his play-calling is nothing spectacular by any means. There are quite a few other teams that are much harder to plan for offensively. I think that is why more often than not we abuse less talented team because our talent level is higher, and struggle mightly against tough competition because there is no longer that talent gap.

And I could compare him to anyone regardless of their win percentage... That means nothing to me as a coach. It can only be accurately viewed by what you are getting out of your talent each year. If you should go to the super bowl because you have the best talent and lose in divisionals, that's a coaching problem. Not talent. But it is impossible to judge that so we have to go off of what we know.

Coaches personally I'd rather have than MM

Belechick
Tomlin
Arrains
Bowles
Rivera

As you can see one of those didn't even make the playoffs. But I think all of those coaches achieved as much as their teams could. They 4 out of the 5 coach with fire, with a passion that I seldom see from MM. And all of them are more innovative than MM. I see nothing from MM, same thing year after year.

I understand there is no right or wrong answer, just fun to debate more than... Like it or not no.

Especially considering there is no way that you can say that. The Packers go 6-10 like they have in MM era, get swept at home in the division again. And there is rumblings internally. I have no doubt he could be gone in the 2016 season.

 

[OldSchool101]

We have Aaron Rodgers. A 10-6 season, mediocre offense, getting swept at home by division opponents, and losing the division isn't acceptable. Late game meltdowns and players coming in overweight doesn't exactly allude to us having a guy who can motivate players.

Ok. I'll play Devils advocate. Who do you recommend to replace Mike?