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Interesting read about MM (at least to me)

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackersRS, Nov 10, 2009.

  1. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    People have complained that I only post **** reads... But I like them anyway...

    Lovie, McCarthy are at a crossroads | National Football Post

    About McCarthy...

    I disagree with him, however. I don't think it's that they aren't buying into the program, as much as I think the program just doesn't fit the players we have...
     
  2. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    I hope we all agree that Mac might not be the "real" problem with Green Bay. Who drafted Mac's O-line over the past five years...ya know, Baby Swiss???

    It's not accurate for people to begin clamoring for Mac's head and not include Ted's as well. After all, a chef is often only as good as his ingredients.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Ted has no bearing on the penalties, the stupid ones, and the fact they keep doing same mistakes
     
  4. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    So, you have no problem leaving Ted outta this mix? See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil???

    Not me - I ain't buying what some are attempting to pedal here. I think we have equal amounts of fault between Ted and Mike - one can't draft premiere talent, and the other can't get his players to play consistently.

    Getting rid of Mac only fixes half the problem. You might see better results and then again, you might not. At the end of the day in the NFL, the creme eventually rises to the top - it's all about talent.

    You also write about penalties and mistakes. One could point to low Wonderlic scores from many of Teddy's selections - just as reasonably (actually, probably moreso) - as blaming a head coach for not getting more from mentally challenged players.

    For my money, I'm keeping me eyes wide open on this one. I'm not going to let some spin machines influence where real issues lie with the packers.
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Show me where I said it was only Mikes issues?

    I had an issue with your post and only pointed out what I think you missed saying...Which is Ted doesnt get the players ready to play and prepare them to play..Ted doesnt call the plays either

    does Ted have a hand in it, hell yeah he does..but I think Mike goes way before Ted does
     
  6. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    I have a little difficult time understanding how people can (seemingly) rail so much on only one person (McCarthy) and not in the same time Ted Thomson as well ...

    McCarthy has already shown he actually is able to coach a winning team (2007 - 14-4) ... - To just call out for McCarthy's head while not holding Ted Thomson responsible as well is highly biased and having double standards ...

    On the other hand ... it would appear that the root problem is lying much deeper than just meets the eye ... in that it there is alot of circumstantial evidence that points towards the Executive Board meddling alot more than they probably should be doing in football operations overall as well ...

    I find it a little hard to believe that Murphy (and the Exec Board) didn't have a high influence in the decision to fire Sherman and bringing in McCarthy ...
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I have the same problem when people rail only on TT.

    I don't think it's more of a talent issue than it is a coaching and preparation issue, and a lot of people agree with me.

    We have a piss poor OL. So why keep wanting to throw it downfield??? Why neglect the West Coast offense? Why keep trying to force the ZBS when there's no one who can apply it?

    It IS ultimately on TT, for hiring and keeping MM, though...
     
  8. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    I agree. I think most people choose to blame the coach first because it's the easiest and cleanest, if not most myopic, reason. Never mind the fact that Thompson is the guy that HIRED Mac.
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Of course it's easier to fix the direct problem than the indirect problem... It's easier, it's quicker, and it could fix it. Now if you say that TT could never hire a coach competent enough, or that any competent coach wouldn't work with TT, then you may be onto something...
     
  10. NYPacker

    NYPacker Cheesehead

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    The thing about McCarthy is that he's a young coach who is still trying to fit into his role as the head coach. His time in Green Bay is mostly an experimental phase in which his experience builds up. However some of you guys might disagree since there are young coaches like Jim Caldwell and Mike Tomlin who have been very successful so far with their own teams. Me personally, I would like to think it's rather the coaching at fault here rather than the talent. Look at New England, why have UFA's and late round picks like Stephen Neal, Juilian Edelman, and especially Tom Brady become successful players? It's because the coaching staff has the right idea when it comes to identifying potential and nurturing it into a winning team. Green Bay has done the same with players like Tramon Williams and Atari Bigby but the success level still hasn't caught up with us as it should.
     
  11. Hauschild

    Hauschild Cheesehead

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    It all depends on where everybody feels our true weaknesses lie - and by that I mean the most important reason for Green Bay losing games. If it is the lack of talent on the O-line, then wouldn't the buck stop with Thompson? Also, Ted was well aware of Rodgers' strengths and weaknesses and to casually address the O-line for the past 5 years certainly cannot be considered shrewd.

    I guess this argument could be likened to "environment" vs "genetics". Everybody has their opinion and biases. Do teams win primarily due to talent or coaching??? It's a tough call - certainly a combination of the two, but there's no way each could be considered 50% - or could it? If it is a combination, then both should be deep-sixed.

    Also, if you're paying Mac 4 large bills per, while Ted gets 2, that also must factor in. At this point, I'm still not certain. Would it be easier for a team to transition to a new GM or coach in terms of taking the least amount of time to see an improvement? From that perspective, I'd say it would be far easier to install a new GM. But, I also have been around long enough to realize you shouldn't change unless you're confident the change would be a better option.
     

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