Injuries

mradtke66

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
158
Location
Madison, WI
You're misunderstanding, though I may have poorly worded my response.

When was the last time you were watching a college game and the defender intentionally just took down the receiver knowing it would only cost 15 yards and a first down?

Bad games by King not withstanding, NFL corners are good enough to generally not leave their man wide open, though they can be beat by a step or two. In other words, far enough away to not play good coverage, close enough to intentionally DPI.

I would expect them (NFL corners) to regularly commit DPI in desperate situations when they are more than 15 yards downfield.

Currently, in the NFL PI in the endzone results in the ball being spotted at the 1 (college it is the 2), in either case, I don't see defenders intentionally committing PI at either level thinking its better than surrendering the TD.

Really? Because I have at the Pro level. In particular, end of game situations cause all kinds of weird penalty situations. Intentional delay of game, 12 men, etc.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
You're misunderstanding, though I may have poorly worded my response.



Bad games by King not withstanding, NFL corners are good enough to generally not leave their man wide open, though they can be beat by a step or two. In other words, far enough away to not play good coverage, close enough to intentionally DPI.

I would expect them (NFL corners) to regularly commit DPI in desperate situations when they are more than 15 yards downfield.



Really? Because I have at the Pro level. In particular, end of game situations cause all kinds of weird penalty situations. Intentional delay of game, 12 men, etc.
We can agree to disagree. I have never liked the pro rule on PI and have never heard a good argument for it, including yours.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
3,222
Reaction score
300
For me it's just a difference between college and pros. I would not want everything to be the same and PI at the spot has been a rule for a long time. I definitely could see more interference penalties if it was a 15 yard penalty.
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
26,047
Reaction score
1,542
Not sure if you follow college football, but that is the rule that they use and I have never seen or heard people complaining about what you are describing.

To be consistent, the NFL rule in the case of offensive pass interference should award the ball to the defense at the spot of the ball, no?

I know the college rule but don't like it for the pro game for the reason stated above. Offensive pass interference mostly occurs to gain separation from the defensive back not to prevent an interception. Therefore it would be a terrible idea to give the defense the ball when it's called.

I know a lot of people are screaming for King to be cut, but what does that get you? His salary was already locked in and I doubt even if another team picks him up, that the Packers will be relieved of much cap.

The Packers releasing King would actually result in an additional cap hit of close to $3 million for this season. Not gonna happen.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
I know the college rule but don't like it for the pro game for the reason stated above.

Unfortunately, some NFL games end up being decided by those 30-60 yard PI calls and in many cases, questionable calls. I don't ever remember watching an NFL game where the validity of at least one PI call wasn't debated by the announcers or fans watching. Sometimes it is that one questionable call that is pointed to as to why the game was won or lost. Which I believe is the reason that for a season or 2, they allowed coaches to challenge PI calls. If it was more of an exact science of determining the penalty, as well if the ball was actually catchable, as well as the lost yardage, I would be in favor or the NFL rule, but it isn't. Potential huge game impacting call put on the shoulders of 1 referee that just may see it different than the rest of us.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
13,002
Reaction score
1,467
whatever the rule, there are circumstances that will dictate and teams that will take advantage of it one way or the other. You're not going to avoid it. The first time a team down by 2 sends a guy down field with time running down and he's tripped by the defender 40 yards down field or tackled before the ball gets there to prevent a completion so the offense only gets 15 yards rather than a try at a FG it will be obvious the rule is not "better" it's just different.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,002
Reaction score
491
whatever the rule, there are circumstances that will dictate and teams that will take advantage of it one way or the other. You're not going to avoid it. The first time a team down by 2 sends a guy down field with time running down and he's tripped by the defender 40 yards down field or tackled before the ball gets there to prevent a completion so the offense only gets 15 yards rather than a try at a FG it will be obvious the rule is not "better" it's just different.
I know, lets make it so that there is incidental PI and intentional PI. Incidental is 15 yards intentional is spot of the foul. That would fix everything. :D ;) :D ;) :D ;)
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
13,002
Reaction score
1,467
I know, lets make it so that there is incidental PI and intentional PI. Incidental is 15 yards intentional is spot of the foul. That would fix everything. :D ;) :D ;) :D ;)
IF there's one thing this league needs, it's definitely more rules with more nuance within each rule. it would be perfect :)
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
26,047
Reaction score
1,542
Unfortunately, some NFL games end up being decided by those 30-60 yard PI calls and in many cases, questionable calls. I don't ever remember watching an NFL game where the validity of at least one PI call wasn't debated by the announcers or fans watching. Sometimes it is that one questionable call that is pointed to as to why the game was won or lost. Which I believe is the reason that for a season or 2, they allowed coaches to challenge PI calls. If it was more of an exact science of determining the penalty, as well if the ball was actually catchable, as well as the lost yardage, I would be in favor or the NFL rule, but it isn't. Potential huge game impacting call put on the shoulders of 1 referee that just may see it different than the rest of us.

I would prefer the referees to solely call the most egregious pass interferences as well but don't think the NFL using the college rules would make it any better.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
I would prefer the referees to solely call the most egregious pass interferences as well but don't think the NFL using the college rules would make it any better.
Sure, in an ideal world, I think everyone would PREFER that, the problem is, that isn't how refs are calling it in either college or NFL games. The difference though, in college the poor call doesn't completely handicap the defense by giving the offense a major chunk of yards.
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
26,047
Reaction score
1,542
Sure, in an ideal world, I think everyone would PREFER that, the problem is, that isn't how refs are calling it in either college or NFL games. The difference though, in college the poor call doesn't completely handicap the defense by giving the offense a major chunk of yards.

The college rule doesn't penalize the defense enough on a correct call though.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
The college rule doesn't penalize the defense enough on a correct call though.
Nor do they penalize them enough on a tripping call or a face mask call or a.......since we really never know what the result of that particular play would have been had the penalty not been committed. Once again, the NFL PI penalty assumes the ball would have been caught at the spot of the foul, in many cases that is an over assumption.
 

gopkrs

Cheesehead
Joined
May 12, 2014
Messages
3,222
Reaction score
300
I thought maybe Jaire was interfered with on the TD. The receiver seemed to push him with one arm just about fully extended. Typically, Jaire did not complain much. He just comes to play.
 

Poppa San

Levelheaded
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
10,661
Reaction score
1,205
Location
Brown County Wisconsin
I thought maybe Jaire was interfered with on the TD. The receiver seemed to push him with one arm just about fully extended. Typically, Jaire did not complain much. He just comes to play.
Same play Preston was flagged off side. He wasn't. He'd gotten back before the snap. If the O-lineman moved they'd have blown it dead. They didn't.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
13,002
Reaction score
1,467
Same play Preston was flagged off side. He wasn't. He'd gotten back before the snap. If the O-lineman moved they'd have blown it dead. They didn't.
it was all around screwy. First, the offensive guard on that side, rocked back, Preston moved, but got back, the right tackle didn't move until after he was back and the ball was being snapped.
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
114
LaFleur won't rule out that Alexander is done for the season. His injury is serious enough that the Packers are getting several medical opinions and won't give a definitive prognosis until Wednesday. If Alexander is out for a long time or the season, then for all practical purposes, the season is over. There is no replacing him with Kevin King or Isaac Yiadom. This Packer team looks similar to SF from a year ago. An avalanche of Injuries to star players. When Alexander crumpled to the turf in pain after hitting the human truck Najee Harris, it sure looked serious.
 

Poppa San

Levelheaded
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
10,661
Reaction score
1,205
Location
Brown County Wisconsin
LaFleur won't rule out that Alexander is done for the season. His injury is serious enough that the Packers are getting several medical opinions and won't give a definitive prognosis until Wednesday. If Alexander is out for a long time or the season, then for all practical purposes, the season is over. There is no replacing him with Kevin King or Isaac Yiadom. This Packer team looks similar to SF from a year ago. An avalanche of Injuries to star players. When Alexander crumpled to the turf in pain after hitting the human truck Najee Harris, it sure looked serious.
Gute needs to channel the 2010 version of his inner TT and build a SB winning defense with street freebies.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
Gute needs to channel the 2010 version of his inner TT and build a SB winning defense with street freebies.
Damarious Randall, Quinton Rollins and Josh Jones are all street Free agents, weren't they high round picks not that long ago, that are also very familiar with playing in Green Bay? Probably could complete a Fivefecta and put the old band back together by trading for Ha Ha and Josh Jackson. ;)
 

captainWIMM

Cheesehead
Joined
Jul 23, 2012
Messages
26,047
Reaction score
1,542
Nor do they penalize them enough on a tripping call or a face mask call or a.......since we really never know what the result of that particular play would have been had the penalty not been committed. Once again, the NFL PI penalty assumes the ball would have been caught at the spot of the foul, in many cases that is an over assumption.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the pass interference rule is perfect in the NFL by any means but I prefer it being a spot foul over a 15-yard penalty.

LaFleur won't rule out that Alexander is done for the season. His injury is serious enough that the Packers are getting several medical opinions and won't give a definitive prognosis until Wednesday. If Alexander is out for a long time or the season, then for all practical purposes, the season is over. There is no replacing him with Kevin King or Isaac Yiadom. This Packer team looks similar to SF from a year ago. An avalanche of Injuries to star players. When Alexander crumpled to the turf in pain after hitting the human truck Najee Harris, it sure looked serious.

There's no doubt it would be tough to overcome Alexander being lost for the season but there's no reason to consider the season to be over if it happened.
 

PikeBadger

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Joined
Jan 19, 2013
Messages
4,100
Reaction score
360
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the pass interference rule is perfect in the NFL by any means but I prefer it being a spot foul over a 15-yard penalty.



There's no doubt it would be tough to overcome Alexander being lost for the season but there's no reason to consider the season to be over if it happened.
Play on. The season ain't over by a longshot.
 

Sanguine camper

Cheesehead
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
1,097
Reaction score
114
The question with replacing a guy like Alexander is the massive drop off in talent. What you are doing is taking perhaps the second best cb in the league and replacing him with a cb that is rated from the 100 to 180 th as a bench player. That drop off is so huge that the defense just won't be able to get off the field. Picking on that replacement will yield easy first downs and touchdowns.
 

Pokerbrat2000

Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Joined
Oct 30, 2012
Messages
23,450
Reaction score
3,071
Location
Madison, WI
The question with replacing a guy like Alexander is the massive drop off in talent. What you are doing is taking perhaps the second best cb in the league and replacing him with a cb that is rated from the 100 to 180 th as a bench player. That drop off is so huge that the defense just won't be able to get off the field. Picking on that replacement will yield easy first downs and touchdowns.

While I get what you are saying, I have observed quite a few teams in recent years get decimated at CB by injuries and be down to 3rd, 4th and PS guys and still play decent defense. It's up to the other players and the DC to step up their game and figure out ways to make up for the loss of talent.
 

mradtke66

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
1,160
Reaction score
158
Location
Madison, WI
LaFleur won't rule out that Alexander is done for the season. His injury is serious enough that the Packers are getting several medical opinions and won't give a definitive prognosis until Wednesday.

Could just be some gamesmanship. Possible Alexander is good enough to go Sunday and LaFleur is messing with the Bengals.

If Alexander is out for a long time or the season, then for all practical purposes, the season is over.

In other news, I stubbed my toe. Best to amputate at the hip. ;)
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
13,002
Reaction score
1,467
Could just be some gamesmanship. Possible Alexander is good enough to go Sunday and LaFleur is messing with the Bengals.



In other news, I stubbed my toe. Best to amputate at the hip. ;)
that will make walking difficult.
 
Top