Illegal gestures ?

Pokerbrat2000

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This kind of reminds me of the movie "Footloose". Conservative town...."It's ok to dance, but only in the way its intended to be.....by our rules".

IMO.....as long as it isn't taunting........"Let's Dance!"

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PFanCan

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I think the Lambeau Leap would get penalized today in Roger Goodell's No Fun League.

I agree.. The Leap is no doubt an HSE/Legal concern for the league as it is just a matter of time before some fan gets injured and sues for damages.

However, it's just too good to stop and I suspect that the league has decided to take the risk to keep this classic going. Thank you, LeRoy Butler!
 

Mondio

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buggy doesn't think a grown man should be able to control himself? if a dog can learn to control itself in a life or death situation, surely a grown professional can be expected to show a level of control over his own emotions in a game? maybe I expect too much
 

Pokerbrat2000

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buggy doesn't think a grown man should be able to control himself? if a dog can learn to control itself in a life or death situation, surely a grown professional can be expected to show a level of control over his own emotions in a game? maybe I expect too much

Get a frisbee or a ball in front of my dogs face and all control goes out the window.....because he knows its a game and he is excited to play.

IMO, this world has gotten too worried about what is PC and how something as simple as TO pulling out a pen and signing a football will be perceived by all. It's a game people...let the players and the fans who chose to, have some fun.
 
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buggy doesn't think a grown man should be able to control himself? if a dog can learn to control itself in a life or death situation, surely a grown professional can be expected to show a level of control over his own emotions in a game? maybe I expect too much

It isn`t a case of a grown man being able to control his emotions, it was part of the game that made it fun to watch. The whole package, even back when Gastenau used to do his thing. If that offends your sensabilities, so be it. And if disagreeing with your opinion offends you, I can live with that too. It`s MY opinion. If you want boring, try watching cricket.
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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Here is what happens when we teach our kids to celebrate....too early :coffee:

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Mondio

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It isn`t a case of a grown man being able to control his emotions, it was part of the game that made it fun to watch. The whole package, even back when Gastenau used to do his thing. If that offends your sensabilities, so be it. And if disagreeing with your opinion offends you, I can live with that too. It`s MY opinion. If you want boring, try watching cricket.
awww, so what level of control do you expect? a fist pump in the air? or rip off a helmet and fist pump to the face? I played football, at more than one level. I understand the emotion involved. Unlike you, the celebration doesn't excite me near as much as a bone crushing hit, or leaving some guy holding air on the way to the endzone. the game provides enough excitement for me, the rest is fluff.

and as I said, there's a difference between types of celebrations, if your sensibilities can't decipher, well, i'm ok with that :) Like I said, a dog can learn control in life or death situations. Certainly a grown man can remember not to make a throat cutting gesture while in the midst of a game.
 

Mondio

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Get a frisbee or a ball in front of my dogs face and all control goes out the window.....because he knows its a game and he is excited to play.

IMO, this world has gotten too worried about what is PC and how something as simple as TO pulling out a pen and signing a football will be perceived by all. It's a game people...let the players and the fans who chose to, have some fun.
Train your dog. You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will, and they'll tear into you with just as much enthusiasm, because they have learned control. Even LT, running around like a pack of crazed dogs, had a fair amount of self control. Unless you think it's above a grown man to have self control in the midst of a game.
 
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awww, so what level of control do you expect? a fist pump in the air? or rip off a helmet and fist pump to the face? I played football, at more than one level. I understand the emotion involved. Unlike you, the celebration doesn't excite me near as much as a bone crushing hit, or leaving some guy holding air on the way to the endzone. the game provides enough excitement for me, the rest is fluff.

and as I said, there's a difference between types of celebrations, if your sensibilities can't decipher, well, i'm ok with that :) Like I said, a dog can learn control in life or death situations. Certainly a grown man can remember not to make a throat cutting gesture while in the midst of a game.

Whatever mate. Knock yourself out doing whatever you do. I`m not prepared to argue the point sorry.
 

Mondio

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Whatever mate. Knock yourself out doing whatever you do. I`m not prepared to argue the point sorry.
Then quit replying. It's ok if you can't tell the difference between pumping a fist in the air to celebrate and pumping it into someone's face. Having a level of control during a game, has been, and always should be expected. If your brain is wired in such a way you have no control, then maybe a game isn't for you?
 
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Then quit replying. It's ok if you can't tell the difference between pumping a fist in the air to celebrate and pumping it into someone's face. Having a level of control during a game, has been, and always should be expected. If your brain is wired in such a way you have no control, then maybe a game isn't for you?

I`m not the one arguing, you are. I merely disagreed with your initial comment. You`re making an issue of it. We`ll just agree to disagree on this issue.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Train your dog. You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will, and they'll tear into you with just as much enthusiasm, because they have learned control. Even LT, running around like a pack of crazed dogs, had a fair amount of self control. Unless you think it's above a grown man to have self control in the midst of a game.

I prefer to live my life under the guidelines of spontaneity and fun. As long as my dog is having safe fun, I don't need to invoke my dominance on him in that moment. But if my dog doesn't recognize a situation where he isn't suppose to be having fun, jumping on Mondio when he opens my door for instance, "Heal" brings the dog sitting right next to me.

I get your point and how you view it and life. I'm just a little less serious about invoking my powers to curtail someone else's fun, unless fun in that moment isn't appropriate. You and I happen to have a different view point of when its appropriate to have spontaneous fun during something classified as a game, is all.
 
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Mondio

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I`m not the one arguing, you are. I merely disagreed with your initial comment. You`re making an issue of it. We`ll just agree to disagree on this issue.
oh, ok. I must have misinterpreted your slights and jabs. Whatever mate, knock yourself out, maybe go watch dancing with the stars because apparently you really don't like football but love men dancing. You aren't here to agree to disagree, you're here to take passive aggressive shots and then slink back. So do it.
 

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I prefer to live my life under the guidelines of spontaneity and fun. As long as my dog is having safe fun, I don't need to invoke my dominance on him in that moment. But if my dog doesn't recognize a situation where he isn't suppose to be having fun, jumping on Mondio when he opens my door for instance, "Heal" brings the dog sitting right next to me.

I get your point and how you view it and life. I'm just a little less serious about invoking my powers to curtail someone else's fun, unless fun in that moment isn't appropriate. You and I happen to have a different view point of when its appropriate to have spontaneous fun is all.
That's your take away point? I view my relationship with my dogs as anything but dominance over them. You know nothing about me. Spontaneous fun is fine, and encouraged, but so is a level of control over your emotions. I'm fine with 15 yards being tacked on to guys that take their helmets off. you know why? because we couldn't even take ours off in practice so we didn't. Surely a pro can handle that. they used to be able to take them off in spontaneous fun, ala Favre tossing a TD to Rison in a super bowl. But since then, it morphed from that to let me rip my own helmet off after every play to start jawing in someone's face. it wasn't about fun anymore, it was about being a classless, little self controlled *****.
 
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oh, ok. I must have misinterpreted your slights and jabs. Whatever mate, knock yourself out, maybe go watch dancing with the stars because apparently you really don't like football but love men dancing. You aren't here to agree to disagree, you're here to take passive aggressive shots and then slink back. So do it.

Look, I disagreed with a statement you made, YOU made it personal by naming me personally, and therefore I responded. I have no intention to take this further myself, but if you want to report me to the other moderators for offending your sensibilities please feel free. I`ll bow to their rulings. I have said we will have to agree to disagree, but you seem to want to make some sort of issue here.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Train your dog. You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will, and they'll tear into you with just as much enthusiasm

That's your take away point? I view my relationship with my dogs as anything but dominance over them. You know nothing about me.

I have taken 6 dogs though various levels of obedience as well as agility training courses, so I do know something about training a dog. I don't need to know anything about you to gather enough information from your first statement about your relationship with your dog; "You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will". Yes, contrary to what you think, that is dominance of a dog. You have become the alpha male of your pack, intended or unintended. I won't talk about the dangers of this type of training, because this isn't the place and I am guessing you already know.

Like Buggy, I think its just best to say we agree to disagree on whether celebration belongs in football or doesn't, because we will never agree on that.
 

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Look, I disagreed with a statement you made, YOU made it personal by naming me personally, and therefore I responded. I have no intention to take this further myself, but if you want to report me to the other moderators for offending your sensibilities please feel free. I`ll bow to their rulings. I have said we will have to agree to disagree, but you seem to want to make some sort of issue here.
as you've said 3 times now? you're done remember, move along. report yourself, i have no intention of doing so.
 

Mondio

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I have taken 6 dogs though various levels of obedience as well as agility training courses, so I do know something about training a dog. I don't need to know anything about you to gather enough information from your first statement about your relationship with your dog; "You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will". Yes, contrary to what you think, that is dominance of a dog. You have become the alpha male of your pack, intended or unintended. I won't talk about the dangers of this type of training, because this isn't the place and I am guessing you already know.

Like Buggy, I think its just best to say we agree to disagree on whether celebration belongs in football or doesn't, because we will never agree on that.
you can't talk of the dangers because you don't know. and you'd probably be very surprised to see how my "dominance" was attained. I do intend to maintain dogs that have a level of self control, I do not intend to hold them under my thumb with "dominance" I'm an alpha only because they trust me to give them direction and not for any other reason. anyway, if an animal can maintain self control, so can a person.

and don't turn this into a person can do nothing celebratory because it's never been my position. i think we can agree that a level of control is necessary. I was responding to a person who said they shouldn't be punished for not being in control of their emotions outside of the rules. I disagreed.
 

Forget Favre

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Are they 3? Or grown men playing a professional sport? If high school kids across America can control themselves, I suspect NFL players can exercise some level of self control
It would be like the ref. asking a boxer to stop hitting his opponent when his fist is already halfway to his face.
 

Forget Favre

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I agree.. The Leap is no doubt an HSE/Legal concern for the league as it is just a matter of time before some fan gets injured and sues for damages.

However, it's just too good to stop and I suspect that the league has decided to take the risk to keep this classic going. Thank you, LeRoy Butler!
As I'm sure you know, they even made a statue for it!
And with Leroy Butler there to pose for the unveiling. How cool is that?

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...tatue-honors-year-packers-tradition/13490469/
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Actually, I don't know anything about your dogs, you are correct and I am sure they are one of the positive examples that come out of that type of training. But I do know what can happen when the Alpha is missing from the equation. Both from reading, practical experience with a dog and when I was a kid. I watched my little sister almost get her leg ripped off by 2 german shepherds, whose alpha happen to be passed out drunk while his window was left wide open for them to get out. They were awesome well mannered guard dogs on a normal day. My very first dog I had as an adult, I trained (through a class) with dominance. Spiked choke collar, laying on him, biting his neck and growling....all that. He was a very well "trained" dog....totally new his place around me. But when I wasn't around, in his mind he became the alpha and boy was he a handful for anyone else!

Again, we digress. I get your point of view concerning celebration during a game of football. I also agree with you that a person should be able to abide by the rules set in the NFL, through self control. I don't view ripping your helmet off to argue with refs or jaw with other players as celebration and don't condone that either, that is just poor sportsmanship. I just happen to think the rules are too strict when it comes to good old fashioned happy, fun, not in your face celebration. Some view that as poor sportsmanship, because they feel its meant to taunt the other team or fan base, so be it. That is the part I don't think you and I agree upon and that is cool....we are just fans. Plus, I get to do all of that happy dancing and celebration at home in the privacy of my living room :D
 

Forget Favre

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Train your dog. You can kick my dog in the face and if I tell them to down they will, and they'll tear into you with just as much enthusiasm, because they have learned control. Even LT, running around like a pack of crazed dogs, had a fair amount of self control. Unless you think it's above a grown man to have self control in the midst of a game.
Comparing dogs to people is like comparing apples to oranges.

And is there really any need to use animal abuse as an example?
That offends me.
 
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I think the Lambeau Leap would get penalized today in Roger Goodell's No Fun League.

It's a good thing that we know that Aaron Rodgers is putting on a title belt instead of a cod piece or jock strap that would, no doubt, get him penalized!
Are they 3? Or grown men playing a professional sport? If high school kids across Americawent can control themselves, I suspect NFL players can exercise some level of self control
Im not so sure about that.
Ummm. I just had some teenagers steal a tennis ball that sailed over the court fence yesterday. I approached the group and questioned one of them to get it back and then I suddenly had a foreshadowing of me being in the news for beating a group of teen punks to a pulp with a tennis racket. If I survived the onslaught of all 6 of them!
Then I wouldnt get to argue with you guys which would be a real shame :D
Let them celebrate for a few seconds but put a time limit on it. Every second over the allotted time, cause -1 yard.
 

Mondio

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Comparing dogs to people is like comparing apples to oranges.

And is there really any need to use animal abuse as an example?
That offends me.
it is comparing apples to oranges, that's the point. One has a more primitive brain with less impulse control that has enough to control itself and the other is a grown man who is being made excuses for because he's playing a game.

you use the example then. Pick one. How bout throwing a ball, i can down my dog 2 inches from picking it after running across a football field and have him sit there and look at it until I tell him to come back to me, or pick it up, or some other command. no neck biting, no spiked collars no nothing to achieve it either.

sorry about your sister, and anybody passed out drunk with 2 "guard dogs" is a POS. Sounds like they had poor temperaments. Dogs who view kids as threats or food have no place in my world
 
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