ILB/WR Priority

4zone

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The draft is my favorite sports event of the season. It's absurd, but true.
Not really. I find that I like the intellectual challenges of the complexity of building a winning team. The season is simply grading how well you did. Did your theories hold water or sink?
 

PackFan2

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Malik Harrison is someone I haven't paid attention to.. his tape vs Clemson was lit AF. for a guy thats suppose to be almost 250lbs, he played like he was 230lbs and very decisive. He play maddddd. I Iike that in my ILBs. Jumped up my board. His game vs Michigan State was great too.
 

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Khaleke Hudson LB for Michigan....wow.. this guy.
Calling it now. He's going to rise in the draft. I'm sold on him. Going to perform well in the combine. Won't be shocked if he runs a 4.3-4

Idk why no one is talking bout him but right now one of the tops on my board. Speed to power. Lighting in the bottle. Consistent tackler. In the Iowa game he had one bad tackle out of many great ones. It's 3 in the morning. Either I'm loosing it or this is guy is just straight ballin.

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Dantés

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Khaleke Hudson LB for Michigan....wow.. this guy.
Calling it now. He's going to rise in the draft. I'm sold on him. Going to perform well in the combine. Won't be shocked if he runs a 4.3-4

Idk why no one is talking bout him but right now one of the tops on my board. Speed to power. Lighting in the bottle. Consistent tackler. In the Iowa game he had one bad tackle out of many great ones. It's 3 in the morning. Either I'm loosing it or this is guy is just straight ballin.

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I have not watched Hudson, so I am not saying he's good or bad, but my understanding as to why he isn't regarded as a high end prospect is because he's 5'11" 220 and not really a great coverage player.
 

Dantés

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Ben Fennell who, for my money, is the best/most knowledgeable guy covering the Packers right now, had this to say today on the linebacker front (on Twitter):

#Packers ILB... What do they need? Speed, SL/SL Range, Play Making, Toughness Initial LB question is always 'Can he cover?' But Pettine doesn't ask Martinez to cover or turn/run often Martinez's role? 'See ball, get ball, MOF nucleus' Imagine this in middle of the defense:

After the colon is a picture of Oklahoma's Kenneth Murray. He went on...

So what do you do with a LB that doesn't cover on 3rd down? This is what Murray did on 3rd Down for Oklahoma: QB Spy, Stunts/Twists, Sub Rusher.. Rarely deeper than 5-6 yards off the line of scrimmage in any situation Let those 5-6 DBs on the field do the coverage assignments.
 
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Jordyn Brooks. 20 TFL. He’s built like a traditional NFL is at 6’1” 245lb. He’s all over the board. I’ve seen him top 4 ILB all the way to late 6th round (which is Ridiculous imo). In his last 11 games, he has 108 tackles, 20TFL, 3 Sacks, 2 FR, 1FF.

He’s a very instinctive player, but what he has (that we don’t currently have) is he’s crafty at juking blockers with quick feet. Hence the 20 tackles for loss in 2019. His long speed and lateral movement was below average (although I believe he’s transitioned a few pounds to lean muscle since) but makes up for it with a quick play diagnosis. It’s partly why nobody in the business can pin his draft stock with any degree of consistency.
https://www.texasfootball.com/artic...to-a-top-nfl-draft-prospect?ref=related_title

He’s supposed to stay put in that late day 2, early day 3 area, unless he exceeds expectations his combine is projected to be lackluster. He reminds me of what I said about RB Singleterry last year when everyone argue his combine sucked. I don’t want another Oren. I want someone like Jordyn, with LB acumen that’s confident day 1 and he’s obviously not afraid to show it. Football IQ > Raw speed

To me he’s a no brainer with our late round 3 selection, but I have a feeling he may not make it that far.

If I’m GM. I’m doubling down at the 2 weakest positions. LB and WR.
 
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GleefulGary

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Jordyn Brooks. 20 TFL. He’s built like a traditional NFL is at 6’1” 245lb. He’s all over the board. I’ve seen him top 4 ILB all the way to late 6th round (which is Ridiculous imo). In his last 11 games, he has 108 tackles, 20TFL, 3 Sacks, 2 FR, 1FF.

He’s a very instinctive player, but what he has (that we don’t currently have) is he’s crafty at juking blockers with quick feet. Hence the 20 tackles for loss in 2019. His long speed and lateral movement was below average (although I believe he’s transitioned a few pounds to lean muscle since) but makes up for it with a quick play diagnosis. It’s partly why nobody in the business can pin his draft stock with any degree of consistency.
https://www.texasfootball.com/artic...to-a-top-nfl-draft-prospect?ref=related_title

He’s supposed to stay put in that late day 2, early day 3 area, unless he exceeds expectations his combine is projected to be lackluster. He reminds me of what I said about RB Singleterry last year when everyone argue his combine sucked. I don’t want another Oren. I want someone like Jordyn, with LB acumen that’s confident day 1 and he’s obviously not afraid to show it. Football IQ > Raw speed

To me he’s a no brainer with our late round 3 selection, but I have a feeling he may not make it that far.

If I’m GM. I’m doubling down at the 2 weakest positions. LB and WR.

I watched Brooks play against my alma mater and came away impressed.
 
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It’ll be interesting to see if we go after a LB or WR in Free Agency. I believe GB should double down this draft at whichever of these 2 positions they do not go after in FA.
I can see something like
Round 2 LB
Round 5 LB

OR

Round 1 WR
Round 6 WR
 
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Heyjoe4

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To pick between the two, I have more faith in our WR corps to pick it up than our ILB corps. But, there are good options in the ILB FA market. Not much we should consider at WR.

I dont think we need 2 ILBs, not sure how many snaps we played with 2. Martinez played for 1024 snaps and Burks/Goodson combined for 311. Not sure if that was because our #2 ILB sucked press schemes that way.
It might be my imagination (if so I stand ready to be corrected), but it doesn’t seem like there are a lot of two ILB formations, Steelers excluded. The trend seems to be to have more athletic DLmen, and one very athletic ILB who can cover the field (and TEs and RBs) and contribute to the run defense. So I think Gluten is looking for one stud to replace Martinez.

Queen and Henry have been mentioned as first round picks. If FA is strong on ILB (and I like the guy out of Chicago but can’t recall his name), then Gluten can focus on WRs in Rd 1 and a deep and athletic DL. Hopefully Gary steps up, hate to miss on a #12 pick.
 

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Patrick Queen is not a plug and play for GB at Mike Linebacker. As I watched Philips tape, Queen flashed and I was one of the few to say Queen will rise in the draft (& he did). Queen would be a plug and play at our will linebacker then develop. He's only got a year of playing as a off-ball linebacker on that LSU defense. He will need to learn to set the fronts, control at the line of scrimmage and relaying the plays to the players(this belonged to his teammate Phillips).
Agreed, but a lot to ask of a rookie. For the average player he was, Martinez was the D’s QB.
 

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All conversations about who will make it down to #30 or how far they'd need to trade up are premature at this point. In two months, people might have an entirely different guess as to where some of the players mentioned in this thread will be. The media coverage will change their projections ad nauseam as they assess more film, gain more data, and especially as they learn more about who actual NFL teams like and don't like.

On top of all that, we haven't even gotten to free agency yet. For all we know, the LB position will be looking a lot better heading into the draft than it does right now.
As to your last point, I hope so.
 

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Obviously Simmons will be gone by the Packers pick but the only guy on that list I might be happy with a 2nd round pick would be Murray. Queen is great in coverage but that's because he's only about 10lbs heavier than Davante Adams; the Packers dline will get him destroyed against the run (same is true with Davis-Gaither). One other guy that I would actually prefer slightly over Murray that isn't on this list is Baun. Both Baun and Murray are good in coverage and have the size/tape to play well against the run.

If the Packers are going to draft an ILB high in the draft, then they need to get a guy that can excel in coverage while not being a liability in the run game. I'd much prefer the Packers just sign a veteran ILB and spend the high round picks on players at more expensive positions, especially since free agency signings at ILB are much cheaper than at TE/WR/DL.
Hey Sunshine you’re last point is significant. Once their rookie contracts expire, and assuming they’ve produced, you’re looking at $15 to $20 mil/year for a stud TE/WR. Not so with ILBs, who probably max out between $7 and $8 mil (a guess). The point is they’re less expensive down the road.
 

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Agreed, but a lot to ask of a rookie. For the average player he was, Martinez was the D’s QB.
You're 100% right brother. Luckily, Martinez didnt have to take on that role for the first few weeks. I think Jake Ryan handled the calls until he got injured? I thinkk. I remember listening to a podcast interview with Martinez (i'll link it if i find it) where Martinez talks about his first year calling the defense and how nervous he was until he finally "got it."
 

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You're 100% right brother. Luckily, Martinez didnt have to take on that role for the first few weeks. I think Jake Ryan handled the calls until he got injured? I thinkk. I remember listening to a podcast interview with Martinez (i'll link it if i find it) where Martinez talks about his first year calling the defense and how nervous he was until he finally "got it."
How could I forget about Jake Ryan? Thx for the reminder. I actually liked that pick. I think he was drafted 3rd or 4th round out of Michigan. And yeah, I think he got hurt and never really made it back.
 
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How could I forget about Jake Ryan? Thx for the reminder. I actually liked that pick. I think he was drafted 3rd or 4th round out of Michigan. And yeah, I think he got hurt and never really made it back.
Yes they were both day 3 selections. That just goes to show you that ILB Can be impactful very early. Even as early as a Rookie season. Same with C
 

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Well that would be great, but those guys (who are truly good in both phases) are harder to find.

I actually think Queen would qualify. I know he's a little bit light, but he's listed at 227 and I would not be surprised if he was in the 230's. On tape, he's often so fast (literally and diagnostically) that blockers can't get to him in time. And he plays with enough explosion to have some take on ability despite being light.

But I think generally speaking, having two true linebackers on the field instead of six DB's and one linebacker will help the run defense stiffen. And to make that happen, they need a LB who can cover.
Yeah the Ds rarely run their base defense, 4-3 or 3-4 anyway. And the trend has been towards lighter, faster ILBs who can drop, cover SDS, and impact the running and rushing game. All while acting as field generals for the D. These guys are RARE. I also tend to agree that any D needs two ILBs. That can be adjusted depending on the situation. But in GB’s case last year, runners were getting to the second level untouched too many times. Keeping an ILB home to defend the RPO ain’t a bad idea. That means those four down DLs, the safeties and CBs need to also be fast with the ability to anticipate.

If they can find that dynamic ILB (probably if FA although Queen may fall), Martinez would be the ideal second ILB. Alas, he’s gonna be too expensive for the Packers to keep. So I expect some creative use out of Raven Greene.
 

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Yes they were both day 3 selections. That just goes to show you that ILB Can be impactful very early. Even as early as a Rookie season. Same with C
Yeah I think Linsley started his first year, and he was a fifth round pick if I recall.
 
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Yeah I think Linsley started his first year, and he was a fifth round pick if I recall.
I’ll never forget him starting against Seattle early that season. He messed up on a particular play and Rodgers chewed him out. But what was impressive is he ultimately swam verses sinking. He played pretty solid from that point on and that showed me he’s good under pressure.
 

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I’ll never forget him starting against Seattle early that season. He messed up on a particular play and Rodgers chewed him out. But what was impressive is he ultimately swam verses sinking. He played pretty solid from that point on and that showed me he’s good under pressure.
Yeah and it shows that a team can, rarely, find a starter in the later rounds. I wouldn’t count on it, but Linsley is certainly an exception.
 

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Yeah and it shows that a team can, rarely, find a starter in the later rounds. I wouldn’t count on it, but Linsley is certainly an exception.

Honestly interior lineman are more likely than exterior lineman for sure in the mid to late rounds for sure. Still an exception and definitely not a rule, but interior lineman spots seem to be by observation alone spots which seems more often striking a starter than other spots late.
 

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Honestly interior lineman are more likely than exterior lineman for sure in the mid to late rounds for sure. Still an exception and definitely not a rule, but interior lineman spots seem to be by observation alone spots which seems more often striking a starter than other spots late.
Good point. The interior guys are expected to have a lower impact on the game than the tackles. That’s not completely fair to Gs and Cs, but tackle is a more coveted position just based on their need to protect the QB more than others on the OL.
 

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Good point. The interior guys are expected to have a lower impact on the game than the tackles. That’s not completely fair to Gs and Cs, but tackle is a more coveted position just based on their need to protect the QB more than others on the OL.

I would argue that tackles are more coveted not because their pass protection is more important, but because there are just fewer human beings with the size and athleticism to play the position. Hence, supply is low while demand remains high and the price increases. A terrible guard will get you beat as quickly as a terrible tackle though.
 
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