ILB/WR Priority

[FaninColorado]

With both of these positions being so important this draft. How far do we trade up for a shot at Kenneth Murray or Patrick Queen in the first round? Do we sit where we are hoping they drop? If they don't make it to us, do we trade down out of the 1st for an extra 3rd or 4th rounder?

This isn't exactly a good draft crop of ILB's... and we need to most likely find 2 between the draft and free agency (which also isn't exactly full of talent)

 

[AmishMafia]

To pick between the two, I have more faith in our WR corps to pick it up than our ILB corps. But, there are good options in the ILB FA market. Not much we should consider at WR.

I dont think we need 2 ILBs, not sure how many snaps we played with 2. Martinez played for 1024 snaps and Burks/Goodson combined for 311. Not sure if that was because our #2 ILB sucked press schemes that way.

 

[4zone]

I like Raven Greene back there as a hybrid, and Martinez is OK as a #2 but not a #1. I doubt we can land Queen or Murray at #30. Maybe Jordyn Brooks in Rd 2.

 

[TomBrownFan40]

I'd sit where we are and not be picky about any position. Along with WR or ILB, I'd also take one of the top Offensive Tackles, Tight Ends, or a companion for Kenny Clark or Jaire Alexander if one slips down to us at 30. But, to answer your question directly, it looks like WR is a lot deeper than ILB. I also think it would be wonderful if Gute finds a "Smith" for the inside in free agency.

 

[PackFan2]

Troy Dye and Jacob Philips are 2-3round ILB picks I am comfortable with both as plug in play as our Mike ILB. Dye had the best coverage grade out of LBs according to PFF (someone who has the subscription can double check me on that). Both players are similar in size and weight (6'4" :220-230). Dye has more experience (started more games as the Mike) hence more tape on coverage and play calling. Phillips has the higher ceiling and will test well (as most LSU linebackers do). I like them both plug in play mike ilb.

 

[PackFan2]

Patrick Queen is not a plug and play for GB at Mike Linebacker. As I watched Philips tape, Queen flashed and I was one of the few to say Queen will rise in the draft (& he did). Queen would be a plug and play at our will linebacker then develop. He's only got a year of playing as a off-ball linebacker on that LSU defense. He will need to learn to set the fronts, control at the line of scrimmage and relaying the plays to the players(this belonged to his teammate Phillips).

 

[OldSchool101]

To answer your question. Selection #20- #24 range is a target that I think we will consider for a player who slips some. As we already know from Gutes recent drafts, it’s an area he feels comfortable being aggressive without the weight of getting desperate. I also picked that because MN picks at #25. Always want to be boxing out your most respected competition.
Normally that top #12 range is off the board by #20 overall. But there may be a player GB has on their board at say... #teens overall that makes it into the the early #20’s where it’s feasible to justify that move. Think J’aire Alexander here. Going earlier (round 1) in a move up than that gets very costly IMO.

 

[PackFan2]

Akeem Davis-Gathiers is an intriguing prospect. I dare say if he was in a LSU uniform (or SEC) he'd be going higher/hype. Much smaller ILB 6'2" - 210lbs. Can easily put on more weight. Lighting fast. Not sure if he can be a three down linebacker yet but would be great off-ball linebacker. 3-5th round.

 

[Dantés]

All conversations about who will make it down to #30 or how far they'd need to trade up are premature at this point. In two months, people might have an entirely different guess as to where some of the players mentioned in this thread will be. The media coverage will change their projections ad nauseam as they assess more film, gain more data, and especially as they learn more about who actual NFL teams like and don't like.

On top of all that, we haven't even gotten to free agency yet. For all we know, the LB position will be looking a lot better heading into the draft than it does right now.

 

[GleefulGary]

Patrick Queen is not a plug and play for GB at Mike Linebacker. As I watched Philips tape, Queen flashed and I was one of the few to say Queen will rise in the draft (& he did). Queen would be a plug and play at our will linebacker then develop. He's only got a year of playing as a off-ball linebacker on that LSU defense. He will need to learn to set the fronts, control at the line of scrimmage and relaying the plays to the players(this belonged to his teammate Phillips).

Logan Wilson of Wyoming is one of my favorites. Malik Harrison seems good too.

Shaq Quarterman is a discount Blake Martinez if people are into that. Two down backer.

 

[PackFan2]

Malik Harrison

I've seen some scouts say he's late round (4-6 round) and some have him as early as 1 to 2nd. What's your take on Harrison?

 

[Dantés]

I've seen some scouts say he's late round (4-6 round) and some have him as early as 1 to 2nd. What's your take on Harrison?

I would guess that he's a guy the Packers would need to target at #62. That's just a guess at this point. He's a powerful, rangy linebacker who is willing to play downhill against the run, but he has obvious coverage limitations that will hinder his value. He's the ideal type of linebacker to pair with a Cory Littleton, coverage specialist type.

I would bet that the outlets that have him in the late rounds are just waiting for the types who know what they're talking about to cue them to adjust their rankings. Then you'll see garbage articles about how he's "surging up boards."

 

[Dantés]

Of the players that Zierlein has reported on thus far, here is his implied top 10 of off-ball linebackers:

1. I. Simmons, Clemson
2. P. Queen, LSU
3. K. Murray, Oklahoma
4. J. Brooks, Texas Tech
5. M. Harrison, Ohio State
6. L. Wilson, Wyoming
7. T. Dye, Oregon
8. A. Davis-Gaither, App. State
9. D. Taylor, Colorado
10. C. Brown, Penn State

 

[4zone]

All conversations about who will make it down to #30 or how far they'd need to trade up are premature at this point. In two months, people might have an entirely different guess as to where some of the players mentioned in this thread will be. The media coverage will change their projections ad nauseam as they assess more film, gain more data, and especially as they learn more about who actual NFL teams like and don't like.

On top of all that, we haven't even gotten to free agency yet. For all we know, the LB position will be looking a lot better heading into the draft than it does right now.

I wonder how many of us enjoy the off season drama as much as the regular season, or more?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

WR >>> ILB...while improvement at ILB is important, ILB is not nearly as important a position to a team as WR. Packers defense can get by just fine with average play at ILB while the offense needs serious help at receiving options outside of Adams and Jones. Plus, ILBs are much cheaper than WRs, so there's that going for them.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Of the players that Zierlein has reported on thus far, here is his implied top 10 of off-ball linebackers:

1. I. Simmons, Clemson
2. P. Queen, LSU
3. K. Murray, Oklahoma
4. J. Brooks, Texas Tech
5. M. Harrison, Ohio State
6. L. Wilson, Wyoming
7. T. Dye, Oregon
8. A. Davis-Gaither, App. State
9. D. Taylor, Colorado
10. C. Brown, Penn State

Obviously Simmons will be gone by the Packers pick but the only guy on that list I might be happy with a 2nd round pick would be Murray. Queen is great in coverage but that's because he's only about 10lbs heavier than Davante Adams; the Packers dline will get him destroyed against the run (same is true with Davis-Gaither). One other guy that I would actually prefer slightly over Murray that isn't on this list is Baun. Both Baun and Murray are good in coverage and have the size/tape to play well against the run.

If the Packers are going to draft an ILB high in the draft, then they need to get a guy that can excel in coverage while not being a liability in the run game. I'd much prefer the Packers just sign a veteran ILB and spend the high round picks on players at more expensive positions, especially since free agency signings at ILB are much cheaper than at TE/WR/DL.

 

[Dantés]

I wonder how many of us enjoy the off season drama as much as the regular season, or more?

The draft is my favorite sports event of the season. It's absurd, but true.

 

[Dantés]

Obviously Simmons will be gone by the Packers pick but the only guy on that list I might be happy with a 2nd round pick would be Murray. Queen is great in coverage but that's because he's only about 10lbs heavier than Davante Adams; the Packers dline will get him destroyed against the run (same is true with Davis-Gaither). One other guy that I would actually prefer slightly over Murray that isn't on this list is Baun. Both Baun and Murray are good in coverage and have the size/tape to play well against the run.

If the Packers are going to draft an ILB high in the draft, then they need to get a guy that can excel in coverage while not being a liability in the run game. I'd much prefer the Packers just sign a veteran ILB and spend the high round picks on players at more expensive positions, especially since free agency signings at ILB are much cheaper than at TE/WR/DL.

A light linebacker will struggle to handle blockers if they are asked to do so. If they are in a role where they are kept clean, as in the WILL next to a bigger player who does more dirty work, then it becomes less of an issue.

Linebackers like Queen also win largely by beating blockers to a spot or slipping blocks, rather than stacking and shedding.

Baun has been an edge primarily in college and Zierlein wrote him up as an edge, which is why he doesn't appear in that list.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

A light linebacker will struggle to handle blockers if they are asked to do so. If they are in a role where they are kept clean, as in the WILL next to a bigger player who does more dirty work, then it becomes less of an issue.

Linebackers like Queen also win largely by beating blockers to a spot or slipping blocks, rather than stacking and shedding.

Baun has been an edge primarily in college and Zierlein wrote him up as an edge, which is why he doesn't appear in that list.

I don't see the Packers playing two ILBs every down and the Packers' dline has not shown the ability to keep the second level clean. I'm not trying to imply that Queen will be a bad pick, I just don't think the defensive personnel/scheme for the current Packers are going to allow him to remain protected against the run. Queen is excellent in coverage and plays more like a big safety than a true ILB and I just don't think that's the kind of ILB help the Packers need.

Baun, after the Senior Bowl, stated the he wanted to move to off-ball linebacker, and he's shown the skills necessary to do so in college.

 

[Dantés]

I don't see the Packers playing two ILBs every down and the Packers' dline has not shown the ability to keep the second level clean. I'm not trying to imply that Queen will be a bad pick, I just don't think the defensive personnel/scheme for the current Packers are going to allow him to remain protected against the run. Queen is excellent in coverage and plays more like a big safety than a true ILB and I just don't think that's the kind of ILB help the Packers need.

Baun, after the Senior Bowl, stated the he wanted to move to off-ball linebacker, and he's shown the skills necessary to do so in college.

They would be able to use two true linebackers far more often if one of them was a capable player in coverage. The reason they've run so much dime, with a safety playing next to Martinez, is because none of their linebackers have ability to hold up in coverage.

You can see this in defenses like SF. Fred Warner can handle coverage responsibilities, so he and Greenlaw were out there together about 70% of the time. Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks both played 85%+ of the snaps, again because Kendricks can handle himself in coverage. The Titans are another example-- Evans and Brown played a lot of snaps next to each other because Brown is capable in coverage.

Certainly the Packers' scheme and defensive line doesn't involve a lot of 2 gapping interior linemen who just occupy blocks, but over the second half (with a healthy Kenny Clark), the iDL generally did a good job protecting the second level. It's not a coincidence that Martinez's play saw an uptick over the second half.

Generally, I think FA will dictate what type of LB the Packers target. Because they currently need both a cover player AND someone who can handle heavier work in the run game. If they sign the former, then they can try to draft the latter or vice versa.

I am not arguing that Baun can't play ILB, or wouldn't be a good pick. I'm just explaining that he isn't in that list of Zierlein's off-ball linebackers because he wrote him up as an edge, which is because Baun basically was an edge at Wisconsin.

 

[XPack]

I think we need to hit FA for both positions.

- We need a WR who can have an immediate impact. With AR entering probably his last 2 years of prime, we can't afford to draft and develop. We can pick a prospect, but need a interim WR who can deliver for 2 years immediately. Probably a veteran.

- With Blake gone, there's a big hole in the ILB position. There was one even when he was there, but now it's bigger. A veteran FA supplemented by 2nd or 3rd round draft selection.

 

[PackFan2]

A veteran FA supplemented by 2nd or 3rd round draft selection.

Im not sure who we can afford for veteran ILB. For now, we can only speculate until then. But I personally like Shaquem Griffin and would trade a very late round pick for the kid. I liked him coming out of college at UCF, hes shown he can play in this league. Fast and instinctive. Stuck behind great LBs (Kendricks, Wagner and KJ Wright). Can come in and play that will/dime linebacker for us.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

They would be able to use two true linebackers far more often if one of them was a capable player in coverage. The reason they've run so much dime, with a safety playing next to Martinez, is because none of their linebackers have ability to hold up in coverage.

You can see this in defenses like SF. Fred Warner can handle coverage responsibilities, so he and Greenlaw were out there together about 70% of the time. Anthony Barr and Eric Kendricks both played 85%+ of the snaps, again because Kendricks can handle himself in coverage. The Titans are another example-- Evans and Brown played a lot of snaps next to each other because Brown is capable in coverage.

Certainly the Packers' scheme and defensive line doesn't involve a lot of 2 gapping interior linemen who just occupy blocks, but over the second half (with a healthy Kenny Clark), the iDL generally did a good job protecting the second level. It's not a coincidence that Martinez's play saw an uptick over the second half.

Generally, I think FA will dictate what type of LB the Packers target. Because they currently need both a cover player AND someone who can handle heavier work in the run game. If they sign the former, then they can try to draft the latter or vice versa.

I am not arguing that Baun can't play ILB, or wouldn't be a good pick. I'm just explaining that he isn't in that list of Zierlein's off-ball linebackers because he wrote him up as an edge, which is because Baun basically was an edge at Wisconsin.

Then maybe it's just that I would rather find one guy who is above average against the run and pass rather than weak against the run and exceptional against the pass. I'm not one of the fans that thinks a good defense needs to have a potential Pro-Bowl ILB in order to exceed, the team just needs adequate ILB play and finding one guy to do both might be easier than finding two guys that can play like that. I'd prefer the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none if it means the team can fill holes elsewhere rather than find two guys to fill one real hole in the defense.

 

[Dantés]

Then maybe it's just that I would rather find one guy who is above average against the run and pass rather than weak against the run and exceptional against the pass. I'm not one of the fans that thinks a good defense needs to have a potential Pro-Bowl ILB in order to exceed, the team just needs adequate ILB play and finding one guy to do both might be easier than finding two guys that can play like that. I'd prefer the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none if it means the team can fill holes elsewhere rather than find two guys to fill one real hole in the defense.

Well that would be great, but those guys (who are truly good in both phases) are harder to find.

I actually think Queen would qualify. I know he's a little bit light, but he's listed at 227 and I would not be surprised if he was in the 230's. On tape, he's often so fast (literally and diagnostically) that blockers can't get to him in time. And he plays with enough explosion to have some take on ability despite being light.

But I think generally speaking, having two true linebackers on the field instead of six DB's and one linebacker will help the run defense stiffen. And to make that happen, they need a LB who can cover.

 

[GleefulGary]

Patrick Queen doesn't turn 21 until August.

This just makes me like him more.