Have we improved?

[Deleted member 6794]

IMO I think the guys stepping up will be what we need to bring it all together. Yeah it will take a lil time plus no clue as to who we get in draft but remember back to a guy drafted from the University of California. He sat on the bench for a while and look at him now.

If you truly expect some of our backups from last season to follow Rodgers´ career path you will be hugely disappointed.

 

[PackerFanInVa]

Not saying they are gonna shine like Rodgers but what I'm saying is they will come into their own. Yea some picks are great out the gate but a few need to get the system down. It will interestin to see how they fill Hawks and the rests shoes that's for sure.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not saying they are gonna shine like Rodgers but what I'm saying is they will come into their own. Yea some picks are great out the gate but a few need to get the system down. It will interestin to see how they fill Hawks and the rests shoes that's for sure.

A lot of them never make it in the NFL though. I don´t expect any of last year´s backups at ILB to make an impact this season, there´s some hope Palmer could turn into a contributor though.

 

[adambr2]

The Packers didn´t get worse by releasing Hawk and Jones, that´s for sure. But I think rodell has a point to question the quality of last season´s backups as they weren´t able to move ahead of them on the depth chart.

They did. Well, Barrington did anyway. Lattimore was also starting over Jones at one point I believe, but they didn't think enough of him to bring back either.

After the bye, Jones' role was pretty nonexistent in the 2nd half of the season. Hawk finally started to give way to Barrington starting with the Patriots game.

I would expect a day 1 or day 2 ILB. Presumably I expect to feel a lot better about Barrington / draft pick / Matthews playing inside next year than we did about Hawk and Jones last year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They did. Well, Barrington did anyway. Lattimore was also starting over Jones at one point I believe, but they didn't think enough of him to bring back either.

After the bye, Jones' role was pretty nonexistent in the 2nd half of the season. Hawk finally started to give way to Barrington starting with the Patriots game.

I would expect a day 1 or day 2 ILB. Presumably I expect to feel a lot better about Barrington / draft pick / Matthews playing inside next year than we did about Hawk and Jones last year.

I don´t consider Barrington one of the backups from last season anymore as he started the last eight games at ILB. As I´ve said repeatedly I´m OK with him continuing to being a starter but won´t get excited about it either.

But compared to others I don´t expect anything out of Bradford and Thomas as they weren´t even able to get on the field despite glaring needs at the position. In addition Francis is a long shot to even make the practice squad.

 

[yooperpackfan]

As long as Aaron Rodgers is taking the snaps I think the offense, 2015 version, will be as good or better.
At this point I'm not very optimistic about the defense due to some personnel deficiencies.
Hopefully the draft and 1 or 2 free agency signings will bolster the defense.
I'm hopeful that personnel additions, improvements and coaching changes will put the Packers over the top.

 

[PikeBadger]

A lot of them never make it in the NFL though. I don´t expect any of last year´s backups at ILB to make an impact this season, there´s some hope Palmer could turn into a contributor though.

I see it as very likely that someone from the Palmer/Bradford/Francis/Hubbard group to surprise us and I don't think Barrington has hit his plateau yet and will improve. I think if the DL continues to improve and as Peppers understands his new position more, I expect the defense to be better in the first two months this year than it was last year. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a proud fan that thinks we're going to be good every year because we have a great management team and very good coaching staff.

 

[Mondio]

I think our defense has question marks for certain, but it's not as if we're trying to replace super stars. We're thin, that could be an issue. Losing Williams hurt, I liked House, but that guy was hardly on the field. Are we going to really miss someone that seemed only be available for a handful of games per year? He's nice to have, but not irreplaceable. I think Hayward is going to fill in nicely actually for Williams, but we'll see. We still need help at DB and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was our 1st pick.

We need to replace 2 starters at ILB, but we're not losing Ray Lewis. One I'm happy is not on the field any more and the other just couldn't keep up no matter how hard he tried. At a minimum, we'll stay even there. I'm concerned only because i'm a fan, but realistically, how hard it is to stay even with that production?

On the DL, we have Daniels and a bunch of guys. I expect Daniels to continue to improve some, I think Datone will improve again from year 2-3. We had some rookies get some playing time last year and though they may not be superstars, I suspect at least one of them gets better from year 1-2.

I don't think our defense is all gloom and doom. I wouldn't say we're much better than last year by any means, but besides losing a starter in Williams, I'm not worried about any of the other losses or lack of FA signings either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I see it as very likely that someone from the Palmer/Bradford/Francis/Hubbard group to surprise us and I don't think Barrington has hit his plateau yet and will improve. I think if the DL continues to improve and as Peppers understands his new position more, I expect the defense to be better in the first two months this year than it was last year. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a proud fan that thinks we're going to be good every year because we have a great management team and very good coaching staff.

I think the Packers will be one of the favourites to win the Super Bowl in 2015. Nevertheless I don´t see any reason to believe that Bradford (who wasn´t even active for a single game last season), Thomas (who never made it from the practice squad) or Francis (who the Packers signed out of the Indoor Football League and hasn´t played a competitve down of football in two years) will provide any impact at the ILB position. Hubbard is an OLB who´s not capable of playing inside.

I expect Barrington to improve as well but I would feel more comfortable by starting a veteran (Spikes) and an early draft pick next season with Sam backing them up.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think our defense has question marks for certain, but it's not as if we're trying to replace super stars. We're thin, that could be an issue. Losing Williams hurt, I liked House, but that guy was hardly on the field. Are we going to really miss someone that seemed only be available for a handful of games per year? He's nice to have, but not irreplaceable. I think Hayward is going to fill in nicely actually for Williams, but we'll see. We still need help at DB and I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was our 1st pick.

We need to replace 2 starters at ILB, but we're not losing Ray Lewis. One I'm happy is not on the field any more and the other just couldn't keep up no matter how hard he tried. At a minimum, we'll stay even there. I'm concerned only because i'm a fan, but realistically, how hard it is to stay even with that production?

On the DL, we have Daniels and a bunch of guys. I expect Daniels to continue to improve some, I think Datone will improve again from year 2-3. We had some rookies get some playing time last year and though they may not be superstars, I suspect at least one of them gets better from year 1-2.

I don't think our defense is all gloom and doom. I wouldn't say we're much better than last year by any means, but besides losing a starter in Williams, I'm not worried about any of the other losses or lack of FA signings either.

None of the guys we lost this offseason is irreplaceable but so far Thompson hasn´t added any significant players to positions of need. It´s unrealistic to expect guys who weren´t able to get on the field last season despite the team being in glaring need of an upgrade at ILB to be better or as good as the ones we lost during free agency.

 

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

I see it as very likely that someone from the Palmer/Bradford/Francis/Hubbard group to surprise us and I don't think Barrington has hit his plateau yet and will improve. I think if the DL continues to improve and as Peppers understands his new position more, I expect the defense to be better in the first two months this year than it was last year. But hey, what do I know? I'm just a proud fan that thinks we're going to be good every year because we have a great management team and very good coaching staff.

Of these players, only Josh Francis from the indoor league is an ILB. The rest are DE/OLB players. I don't know how often that type of player transitions successfully but I definitely don't want to depend on it for 2nd string depth.

Also, can we stop painting Aaron Rodgers as an underdog story? He was a highly rated QB coming out of college and a first round draft pick. I love the guy but if we're basing our hope for guys who were at best low 40s on the roster last year on his career path I think we're being very unrealistic.

 

[Mondio]

None of the guys we lost this offseason is irreplaceable but so far Thompson hasn´t added any significant players to positions of need. It´s unrealistic to expect guys who weren´t able to get on the field last season despite the team being in glaring need of an upgrade at ILB to be better or as good as the ones we lost during free agency.

some on Ir and others that haven't been Signed haven't been signed by other teams either, That should say something about them

 

[sschind]

Just like it sucks that today's team is the only one we can discuss at this time. You tell us what it'll look like on Labor Day, and we'll discuss that one.

Discussing is one thing, whining is another but to be fair I will answer the OPs last question. Yes you are being far too pessimistic.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Discussing is one thing, whining is another. Maybe the OP wasn't doing that so much but plenty of people have been.

Taking a realistic look at some of the shortcomings on the Packers roster doesn´t qualify as whining.

 

[XPack]

Discussing is one thing, whining is another but to be fair I will answer the OPs last question. Yes you are being far too pessimistic.

Whining Our team is near same as last season, so I wanted to know why people think we've improved in comparison. Simple as.

 

[TJV]

I don´t consider Barrington one of the backups from last season anymore as he started the last eight games at ILB. As I´ve said repeatedly I´m OK with him continuing to being a starter but won´t get excited about it either. But compared to others I don´t expect anything out of Bradford and Thomas as they weren´t even able to get on the field despite glaring needs at the position. In addition Francis is a long shot to even make the practice squad.

Of course Barrington isn’t a backup going into this season but he certainly was going into last season (I believe that was adambr2’s point). At the beginning of last season – his second in Green Bay - Barrington hadn’t played a snap from scrimmage in the regular season. He played STs until a hamstring injury ended his season week 9. And he was an OLB at South Florida. Of course none of this means Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, or Francis will follow his path. As I’ve posted, I expect a rookie to line up next to Barrington at ILB when Matthews isn’t. But Barrington is an example of a player who didn’t get on the field from scrimmage as a rookie and made a contribution the next year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Of course Barrington isn’t a backup going into this season but he certainly was going into last season (I believe that was adambr2’s point). At the beginning of last season – his second in Green Bay - Barrington hadn’t played a snap from scrimmage in the regular season. He played STs until a hamstring injury ended his season week 9. And he was an OLB at South Florida. Of course none of this means Palmer, Bradford, Thomas, or Francis will follow his path. As I’ve posted, I expect a rookie to line up next to Barrington at ILB when Matthews isn’t. But Barrington is an example of a player who didn’t get on the field from scrimmage as a rookie and made a contribution the next year.

Agreed, but while Barrington was an improvement over Brad Jones he wasn´t a good ILB by any means. I expect him to improve further with more playing time but would prefer to have him as the primary backup at the position.

 

[El Guapo]

Gains: Raji, Barclay

I'm modifying your post:
Gains: Raji, Barclay, loss of Hawk, loss of Jones

The Packers didn´t get worse by releasing Hawk and Jones, that´s for sure. But I think rodell has a point to question the quality of last season´s backups as they weren´t able to move ahead of them on the depth chart.

Let's not forget about the politics of the game. As much as we all want to think that our team is immune to the business of the NFL, the same games happen. Drafted players get the nod over undrafted players (Goodson vs Rolle last season) and veteran starters often get the benefit of the doubt over youngsters. To say that Hawk couldn't get bumped out of the lineup is not taking in the entire situation. He was our starting ILB for a decade, a locker room leader, and the on-field defensive captain disseminating the plays. He wasn't an easy guy to yank out for poor performance no matter what team is in the discussion. His play deteriorated to the point where he had to go, and that's what it took. How many years did Bishop languish behind Nick Barnett before injury gave him a chance?

This happens folks. Barrington played well for someone without any real snap-counts to his name. Let's hope that he improves into a reliable starter for the next ten seasons while we bring in young reinforcements to take his place if necessary.

 

[AmishMafia]

My thoughts:

It is very difficult to improve one of the most talented rosters in the NFL
The loss of Hawk and Jones at ILB is an improvement.
There will be players who improve, Corey Linsley in addition to others mentioned before who are going to improve.
There are players who are anonymous now who are going to play a role. Players like Rodgers, Jordy, Bishop, Shields, Williams, etc who sat on the roster for a few seasons before they made an impact. There are a few on the roster who don't play much that will be considered 'indispensable' in a year or two.
Raji - comeback NFL defensive player of the year! He was a force when he last played NT. Now he is playing for his probable last big $$$.
The draft - we brought in 3 players in the last draft who played significant snaps as rookies on a SB caliber team. That is amazing. If TT can pull off another impressive draft, we can be dominating.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There are players who are anonymous now who are going to play a role. Players like Rodgers, Jordy, Bishop, Shields, Williams, etc who sat on the roster for a few seasons before they made an impact. There are a few on the roster who don't play much that will be considered 'indispensable' in a year or two.

It's great bonus for a team if someone who hasn't played a lot of snaps or at all turns into an impact player. Depending on it is a whole different matter and isn't a great strategy to start with.

Raji - comeback NFL defensive player of the year! He was a force when he last played NT. Now he is playing for his probable last big $$$.

You obviously haven't watched any of the Packers games in 2011.

 

[gopkrs]

This is really a great question! Nice job! For my money we needed to let go of almost (and maybe all) of the players that we did. I like Hayward a lot and we will have to see if he can handle the new responsibility. imo we will need to give him some slack at the start of the season. The best thing we did happened last year when we moved Mathews to the inside. I guess I am the only one that thinks he has a difficult time against the better tackles. He is just a litlle small to handle them. But on the inside, he can use his smarts. I love him there! But we still need another inside backer in the draft imho. But to answer the question posed...we have not improved. We have managed to keep ourselves together...which is obviously important. And we still have time to make some improvements.

 

[Leather&Lacy]

NO. The offense should be good, but whenever you get rid of guys like Jones and Hawk who were starters?? It makes you think about the guys behind them who couldn't put them on the bench ...how good are those guys?

It just tells me the guys behind them were probably thought of as too young and inexperienced last year. It definitely doesn't indicate lack of talent in those guys.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm modifying your post:
Gains: Raji, Barclay, loss of Hawk, loss of Jones

I consider Jones a non-issue. He was benched, for all intents and purposes, after the bye. Losing the #4 ILB is of little consequence. While the cap gain is substantial, we're talking about whether the team has improved to this point. Since the cap savings has not been used to add a player, it is neither here nor there at this juncture.

As for Hawk, it's worth noting that he ended the season as the same player that started it, and by and large the same player with the same deficiencies we've seen the last few seasons. And yet, the coaches did not see fit to bury him in the depth chart as was the case with Jones, with Hawk still a base defense "starter".

You must assume that the other guys on the roster, guys who had never taken an NFL snap, were not viewed by the coaches as an upgrade. Those are the same guys currently on the roster with no additions made to date. And if you think the coaches made a mistake, well they're still the same guys too. There's no such thing as "addition by subtraction" in a starting player if you cannot point to a guy on the roster who is an upgrade. After all, the coaches had no such clarity.

Now, if you want to assume that the Packers will draft an ILB in the first two rounds, preferably in the first round, as many of us think should be a priority, then yes, we're looking at an upgrade over a player with notable deficiencies.

That has not happened yet. The question is whether the team is improved, which implies "now". I'm not a little surprised (not really) that the question is entertained at his point. We await the draft and the balance of free agency.

 

[HardRightEdge]

To say that Hawk couldn't get bumped out of the lineup is not taking in the entire situation..

He was our starting ILB for a decade, a locker room leader, and the on-field defensive captain disseminating the plays.

You made that first statement as though the second statement should have nothing to do with the matter, that's it is just part of the "game" that is played.

Again, we're talking about replacements who have never taken an NFL snap in some cases, or never taken a snap ever at the position in other instances, and somehow they would have been an improvement playing next to another guy who theretofore had not taken an NFL snap himself. And it's not like any of those guys on the bench come with special credentials or flash plays in the preseason and just happen to be sitting and waiting behind a couple of stars. Most are failed OLBs looking for an NFL niche. After all, none of them managed to beat out Barrington who was, for all intents and purposes, a redshirt rookie.

We await the draft to find out who Matthews' swing man at the position will be.

 

[Vltrophy]

Not sure if we've improved but imo we haven't gotten worse