Guion Slapped With 3 Games

Pokerbrat2000

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Boyd, Thornton, Hooks, Gaston, Ringo or anyone else we sign between now and the start of the season are just going to have to step up :coffee: But yes, reading that list of names doesn't exactly give you a warm fuzzy feeling in your gut.

It also wouldn't shock me to see Peppers put his hand on the ground at his old position, just to mix things up.
 
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It also wouldn't shock me to see Peppers put his hand on the ground at his old position, just to mix things up.

Peppers will rush from the inside in subpackages but don't expect him to line up on the defensive line in the base alignment.
 
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SoonerPack

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While you´re right that the Packers have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league that´s unfortunately not true for the defensive line, where Datone Jones is already suspended for the opener as well.
Exactly. The Jones suspension was one of the contributing factors for my concern. That makes 2 front of the rotation type guys we will be without Week 1. I know it's the Bears but Forte can ball and he may have a few more holes than usual to run through.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Losing Guion or anyone to a suspension really is no different (and maybe better) then loosing them to an injury, next man up better be ready. IMO Packers have one of the deepest rosters in the NFL and barring an injury to AR or several key starters, they are in pretty good shape to not skip a beat from game to game as players go down for whatever reason.
The Packers were 12-4 in a virtually injury-free season. The CB position has undergone a downgrade. No position group was strengthened. The only notable addition is Raji who was, of course, on IR all last season...we don't know which version we'll get, but 5 years of gradual decline is hardly auspicious.

I don't believe this roster can sustain many injuries and match that record.
 
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I know it's the Bears but Forte can ball and he may have a few more holes than usual to run through.

With the new coaching staff I expect the Bears to be a better team this season. They will most likely still finish last in the division but I don't think we'll blow them out twice like last season. Not having two players available on an already thin position is reason for concern.
 
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Peppers will rush from the inside in subpackages but don't expect him to line up on the defensive line in the base alignment.
Yeah, we might see more of Neal-Perry at OLB with Peppers inside in nickel until the suspended guys get back. And yeah, he's not a base D-lineman. I don't doubt he could play quite credibly at base DE, but then he's taking every snap in a season where the Packers want to cut back on his 74% defensive snap count from last season.
 
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The Packers were 12-4 in a virtually injury-free season. The CB position has undergone a downgrade. No position group was strengthened. The only notable addition is Raji who was, of course, on IR all last season...we don't know which version we'll get, but 5 years of gradual decline is hardly auspicious.

I don't believe this roster can sustain many injuries and match that record.

I'm way more optimistic about this year's team. The highest scoring offense in the league will have all starters returning, the defense which significantly improved during the second half of 2014 should be able to improve even further as long as one of Hayward, Randall or Rollins is capable of replacing Tramon adequately. The new emphasis on special teams and some of the newcomers should result in improved play as well.
 
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I'm way more optimistic about this year's team. The highest scoring offense in the league will have all starters returning, the defense which significantly improved during the second half of 2014 should be able to improve even further as long as one of Hayward, Randall or Rollins is capable of replacing Tramon adequately. The new emphasis on special teams and some of the newcomers should result in improved play as well.
Well, we're always hopeful some rookies can step up by the second half of the season, e.g., Barrington. There's not much NFL experience in the depth chart and expecting as injury free of a season as last year is unrealistic. Early injuries compounding the suspensions would take some giddyup out of the getalong.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I agree with Captain, with all starters back on offense, we may even see less (then the already less) playing time in the preseason by the first team offense. This serves to rest them, minimize injuries and give coaches a really good opportunity to evaluate new players as well as let those players hone their skills. Now the defense, as we all know is a bit different. They need the reps and players to step up. But its a relatively young defense with healthy competition at many positions.

IMO the Packers draft and develop mentality will once again shine with starters and depth this year. I don't know who the final 53 will be, but I believe top to bottom it will be better then last years 53 who went 12-4.
 
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Well, we're always hopeful some rookies can step up by the second half of the season, e.g., Barrington. There's not much NFL experience in the depth chart and expecting as injury free of a season as last year is unrealistic. Early injuries compounding the suspensions would take some giddyup out of the getalong.

It's possible that not a single rookie will start for this year's team. While I agree it's unrealistic to expect an injury free season like in 2014 I'm convinced the Packers have enough talent to overcome some injuries.
 
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It's possible that not a single rookie will start for this year's team. While I agree it's unrealistic to expect an injury free season like in 2014 I'm convinced the Packers have enough talent to overcome some injuries.
Well, divisions are not lost in the first 3 weeks. But you can certainly lose a playoff bye in the process. May training camp be injury free.
 
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SoonerPack

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Well, divisions are not lost in the first 3 weeks. But you can certainly lose a playoff bye in the process. May training camp be injury free.
That is my line of thinking and I don't get how some don't understand this logic. You don't win anything week one, two, three or even 10. But when you are playing in WK17 and need another team to lose to ensure you lock up HFA you may look back at that WK3 loss where your backup DLineman wet the bed. This goes for all pro sports. You hear the argument in baseball all the time: "It's 162 games so what does it matter if you win or lose in June?!" Yes, late season games have more immediate importance but at the end of the season they all go into one of two categories. Win or Loss. The above is why I pray we reverse this recent trend of starting slow. Imagine if we can get out of the gate hot and have a little wiggle room. I have high hopes (SB) for this years team and will be greatly disappointed if they don't come out of the blocks firing on all cylinders.

The other thing that scares me about the LT suspension as well as the DJ one games is the elimination of depth. Football is a violent game and people get hurt...often. Our ability to absorb a DL injury has been greatly diminished with these suspensions and if another were to get hurt (Pennel, Boyd, etc.) the situation would be dire. Stay healthy boys and hold down the fort!
 
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That is my line of thinking and I don't get how some don't understand this logic. You don't win anything week one, two, three or even 10. But when you are playing in WK17 and need another team to lose to ensure you lock up HFA you may look back at that WK3 loss where your backup DLineman wet the bed. This goes for all pro sports. You hear the argument in baseball all the time: "It's 162 games so what does it matter if you win or lose in June?!" Yes, late season games have more immediate importance but at the end of the season they all go into one of two categories. Win or Loss. The above is why I pray we reverse this recent trend of starting slow. Imagine if we can get out of the gate hot and have a little wiggle room. I have high hopes (SB) for this years team and will be greatly disappointed if they don't come out of the blocks firing on all cylinders.

The other thing that scares me about the LT suspension as well as the DJ one games is the elimination of depth. Football is a violent game and people get hurt...often. Our ability to absorb a DL injury has been greatly diminished with these suspensions and if another were to get hurt (Pennel, Boyd, etc.) the situation would be dire. Stay healthy boys and hold down the fort!
16 games is not 162 or 82. The Packers 1-2 start last season resulted in losing home field advantage.
 
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HardRightEdge

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While you´re right that the Packers have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league that´s unfortunately not true for the defensive line, where Datone Jones is already suspended for the opener as well.
Where is this imagined depth? This is among the most inexperienced benches in the league. And many of the guys who have had a smattering of snaps have not been impressive, a few of whom might not even make the roster.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Are you agreeing with me? That is precisely what I said but your post has me a touch confused.
I didn't read far enough, I guess. On second reading, the message seems mixed until, "I pray we reverse this recent trend of starting slow." So, yeah, I guess I do agree with you.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Boyd, Thornton, Hooks, Gaston, Ringo or anyone else we sign between now and the start of the season are just going to have to step up :coffee: But yes, reading that list of names doesn't exactly give you a warm fuzzy feeling in your gut.

It also wouldn't shock me to see Peppers put his hand on the ground at his old position, just to mix things up.
Yeah, even with Jones, there's a question mark as to who will rush the passer in nickel. Daniels can't take every snap. Guion's importance is underrated in terms of his value as a versatile player who fills out the rotation. He proved respectable playing out of position at NT; he was signed to play base DE in the first place before Raji went to IR and he fits the profile; he's a fairly decent inside pass rusher. This is why the Packers wanted to sign him to long term deal.

Until Guion returns, who fills the 3-tech DT position when Daniels sits for about 1/2 of those snaps? I don't think pulling Daniels out of base makes sense with this list of inexperienced backups. Somehow the idea of pulling Daniels out of base, leaving a base DE pair of Boyd and an inexperienced player-to-be-named should seem unappealing.

Peppers at 3-tech with Neal/Perry at OLB is an option, but that diminishes the edge rush, and is problematic when Matthews plays the middle. Or Neal at 3-tech. But Neal's size doesn't make for a good fit for other than spot duty in long yardage. I would observe, however, that a heavy dose of DT play is not what Peppers signed up for. He came to Green Bay because the Packers saw his fit at 3-4 OLB, which is where he had long said he wanted to play.

Of course, there's always the NASCAR dime defense. Maybe that's why two DBs were drafted high. ;)
 
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Yeah, hes just an average to good DL for us is all. When he comes back, he just helps us with depth even more. He better hope that someone doesn't step up and outshines him and takes his playing time all away......which could happen.
I hope that is exactly what happens
 

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Yeah, even with Jones, there's a question mark as to who will rush the passer in nickel. Daniels can't take every snap. Guion's importance is underrated in terms of his value as a versatile player who fills out the rotation. He proved respectable playing out of position at NT; he was signed to play base DE in the first place before Raji went to IR and he fits the profile; he's a fairly decent inside pass rusher. This is why the Packers wanted to sign him to long term deal.

Until Guion returns, who fills the 3-tech DT position when Daniels sits for about 1/2 of those snaps? I don't think pulling Daniels out of base makes sense with this list of inexperienced backups. Somehow the idea of pulling Daniels out of base, leaving a base DE pair of Boyd and an inexperienced player-to-be-named should seem unappealing.

Peppers with Neal/Perry at OLB is an option, but that dimishes the edge rush, and is problematic when Matthews plays the middle. Or Neal at 3-tech. But Neal's size doesn't make for a good fit for other than spot duty in long yardage. I would observe, however, that a heavy dose of DT play is not what Peppers signed up for. He came to Green Bay because the Packers saw his fit at 3-4 OLB, which is where he had long said he wanted to play.

Of course, there's always the NASCAR dime defense. Maybe that's why two DBs were drafted high. ;)
Yeah there are indeed a lot of questions about the defense, inexperience and a potential lack of depth all over. I'd say the answers to those questions will be determined by the D's ability to pressure the QB.

It's been said that the defense doesn't need to carry the team which I think is true. It does need to be good enough to get stops when they're needed though. That starts and ends with getting after the QB. They gotta bring it and I think they can. That backfield is going to be inexperienced but they're also going to be aggressive. Shields, Hayward, Hyde, Dix and Burnett has the potential to make a damn good backfield. Add in the possibilities with Randall and Rollins (he and Hyde could be all over the place) and that's a group with some skills.

Matthews is going to be in more places to make plays this year. Neal and Perry will need to carry a lot of weight. If they can stay healthy I think they can get it done,. Mulumba might be a forgotten man who gets after it this camp and shows a jump from his rookie year to make a contribution. He may have the best movement skills of all the reserve OLB candidates.

Somebody needs to emerge at both inside and outside linebacker, as well as on the DL. It's a yeoman's group but if the gap stuffers (Raji, Boyd, Thornton, Pennel, Hooks - eventually Guion) can do their part to lock down the run early, and with their offense they'll have opportunities to make teams one-dimensional and get pressure with Daniels, Jones, Peppers, Neal, Perry, Matthews, Barrington, plus Hyde, Rollins and the safeties. I'm a devout homer but I see some playmakers there.

The talent could very well be there for the defense to come together. I hope I don't regret saying this, but I think it'll be a better tackling group than recent years.

I've wavered on Capers over the last couple years. I think he's a mastermind but he undoubtedly tends to sit back a lot with the lead. If the defense executes perfectly that's justifiable. They too often haven't, and this group is more inexperienced, though I think more talented. Capers needs to go Buddy Ryan on the league this year.
 
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Where is this imagined depth? This is among the most inexperienced benches in the league. And many of the guys who have had a smattering of snaps have not been impressive, a few of whom might not even make the roster.

Overall the Packers bench isn't that inexperienced. There are certain positions this is true for (WR, ILB and CB) on which Thompson spent his first four draft picks on. Compared to a lot of previous seasons none of these rookies will be asked to start though.

That backfield is going to be inexperienced but they're also going to be aggressive. Shields, Hayward, Hyde, Dix and Burnett has the potential to make a damn good backfield. Add in the possibilities with Randall and Rollins (he and Hyde could be all over the place) and that's a group with some skills.

Most likely the starting secondary will consist of Shields and Hayward on the boundaries with Burnett and Clinton-Dix lining up at safety. Hyde is the front runner to be the nickel corner. That's not an inexperienced bunch. Add Randall and Rollins to the mix and the unit should be fine as long as one if them is capable of being a good outside corner.

Somebody needs to emerge at both inside and outside linebacker, as well as on the DL. It's a yeoman's group but if the gap stuffers (Raji, Boyd, Thornton, Pennel, Hooks - eventually Guion) can do their part to lock down the run early, and with their offense they'll have opportunities to make teams one-dimensional and get pressure with Daniels, Jones, Peppers, Neal, Perry, Matthews, Barrington, plus Hyde, Rollins and the safeties. I'm a devout homer but I see some playmakers there.

The best case scenario for the defense would be if either Jake Ryan or any other of the guys playing inside linebacker emerges as an impact three down player. That would immediately improve the production from the outside linebackers and would take pressure off the defensive line to get to the QB.

BTW Daniels is the best run stopper on the defensive line as well.
 

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I wonder how Guion's appeal goes? Think he'll get a game or two knocked off?
 

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Guion may use his 3-week vacation to litigate the return of his cash and his vehicle which either the county or the State of Florida is still hanging on to. From what I've been reading Florida's seizure laws are brutal if the asset is used in the commission of a felony -- and I guess having just short of a pound of pot in your possession qualifies even though it was plead down.

Wish he weren't such a bonehead, but I have a feeling that Raji is going to play it "up" several notches this season so he can get the big contract somewhere.
 
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Overall the Packers bench isn't that inexperienced. There are certain positions this is true for (WR, ILB and CB) on which Thompson spent his first four draft picks on.
I think we need to add QB to the list.

How about OL? Barclay is coming off an ACL, he's the only backup who's taken more than a smattering of snaps, and the others have not looked very good in limited play.

FB is the frequently forgotten position. Pre-bye, Kuhn played 58 offensive snaps with Lacy putting up the following stat line: 105/428/4.1. Post-bye, with Kuhn getting 191 offensive snaps, Lacy went into 141/711/5.0.

http://www.foxsports.com/wisconsin/story/green-bay-packers-annual-checkup-john-kuhn-031215

While I like Ripkowski's potential, it could take some time for him to be productive in this blocking scheme with this RB. We've seen inexperienced H-backs in the past accomplish little except muck up the works (Quarless, R. Taylor).

All it took was Quarless' gun idiocy to expose the TE position which was hardly a position of strength to start with.

We've already explored the issues with the D-Line by just subtracting Guion from the equation.

The only position groups with experienced depth are S, OLB and RB.

How did this come to be?

1) Last season was so injury free in the starting ranks that the only young players who got any meaningful playing time were the guys who are now starters: Dix, Linsley, Barrington.

2) Perhaps overlooked is the 2 year draft/UDFA hole from 2011 and 2012. There are only 7 players left on the roster from those draft classes. Daniels, Hayward and Cobb are starters. Perry might or might not be, but that is one of the 3 acknowledged positions of experienced depth. The other 3 are Barclay (again, coming off an ACL and the only qualified OL backup), Tolzien (can he or can't he in a short-term pinch?) and Richardson (who's primarily an ST player and occasional dime safety at one of the 3 positions of depth).

To further illustrate the hole, there are as many players on the roster from the 2008-2009 draft classes as in those 2 draft classes, despite the fact that the 2012 drafted players would still be on cheap rookie contracts and immune to free agency to this point.

3) The 2013 draft class is interesting as well.

While there are 10 players from that draft class on the roster, a particularly high yield, 6 of them starters or D-Line rotational players. And despite the 2 D-Line rotational players form that class (Boyd, Jones), we've already discussed how the subtraction of one player (Guion) leaves the position group exposed regardless. The other 4 "depth players" are Lane Taylor (who's perennially on the bubble with limited unimpressive experience), Tretter (meh, limited as a center backup, few snaps to date), Mulumba (again, in the experienced OLB group but primarily an ST player) and Palmer (another bubble player who hasn't played at his new ILB assignment.)
 
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TJV

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There are "possibilities" at a couple of positions on D and backups on both sides of the ball which translate into uncertainty. And listing players who we hope step up is fine but doesn’t lessen that uncertainty. Even so, I prefer this situation to the "certainty" last season of having Hawk and Brad Jones at ILB. And we should all be encouraged by the improvement the D showed after the bye last season.

As to who starts at 3 technique, although not ideal I like Neal taking snaps there – as HRE mentioned - ahead of Peppers who is more valuable at OLB. And while vince is right – getting pressure on the QB is always important – the Packers need to maintain their improvement vs. the run particularly against the Seahawks and probably against the Bears. The Bears were 30th in rushing attempts last season but Forte had one of five 100 rushing yard games (including playoffs) vs. the Packers last year. And Fox’s Broncos were 12th in rushing attempts in spite of having Peyton at QB.

If I were Guion I’d be thanking my lucky stars being charged with two felonies only resulted in no prison time and his ability to resume his NFL career this season. Does anyone know if his appeal will be ruled on before the season? In the past I think players have been able to ‘play now and pay later’ by appealing but I’m not sure if that’s still the case. I hope it isn't. Obviously if the appeal reduces his suspension from three to two games, fine. But IMO three games is fair punishment: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B9Bf2vMIUAA4OO2.jpg
 

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