Greatest Receiver of All Time

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Not to nitpick, but if you are going to put quotations around something please don't add words to it or change it.

You don't think he is great? I don't see an issue with calling him great.

What did I add or change?

Of course I think he's great. I said he was great.

 

[Ogsponge]

The Seahawks during most of his tenure were not very good. He certainly stands out, IMO, and would be in my top 25. Not top 3, though.

1. Jerry Rice
2. Don Hutson
3. Cris Carter

The reason why I have largent so high is this:

5"11 185 lbs. not all that big and not all that fast, played on some lousy teams and at the time he was basically one of the greatest receivers ever. The guy did more with less than just about any receiver I have seen, although all the wes welker types are not starting to put up pretty crazy numbers working out of the slot and they are about the same size.

 

[HardRightEdge]

When discussing the greatest of all time at different position its generally assumed that Jerry Rice is the best all time. Why is that? Why is the WR position considered the best based on numbers but no other position is?

Jerry Rice is not considered the best of all time based solely on the numbers. Did you watch the guy play?

 

[ivo610]

Jerry Rice is not considered the best of all time based solely on the numbers. Did you watch the guy play?

Yes many times. I thought sterling was just as good in comparative primes.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes many times. I thought sterling was just as good in comparative primes.

Maybe you missed seeing the playoffs those many years? Sterling shone brightly but oh so briefly.

Anyway, as far as I'm concerned it's Rice/Hutson and then everybody else. Megatron might ascend to such status eventually, but at this stage I would not put him ahead of Moss or Owens. He just hasn't played long enough.

 

[ivo610]

Maybe you missed seeing the playoffs those many years? Sterling shone brightly but oh so briefly.

I'm not sure what you insinuating, but feel free to come out with it.

But no, for a second time, I didn't miss rices career.

 

[Ness]

The issue I have with Huston was that while he did dominate during his era, I mean...he was essentially playing against guys off the street corner. And yes he did also play with those same people as teammates. I guess it depends how you look at it. Football before the 1950's for me I usually shrug my shoulders since the game really wasn't that refined. I can Rice being dominant back in those days. And I can see him being dominant now because the rules are slanted towards the offense via the pass more so. That being said, I can't see Hutson coming in here today and lighting it up.

 

[HardRightEdge]

So I saw this in another thread:



Which had a reply of:



Which got me to thinking, who are the best receivers of all time? I think I am certain who Ivo believes is #1 and he will make an appearance on my personal list. Just a quick note, when I consider the greatest players of all time I do not account for what would a player do in another era, it is simply an unfair comparison, athletes in the modern era are simply bigger, faster and stronger than ever before so you flat out cannot compare players outside of their era. So without further ado:

#1 Jerry Rice - 1549 catches, 22895 yards 197 TD's, 3 Superbowl titles

What can you really say about Jerry Rice? The guy was simply a machine. There simply has never been a receiver that has had the kind of career this man did, in fact, Jerry Rice was so damn good you can make an argument that he is not only the best receiver in NFL history, but that he is the best player in the history of the NFL. After saying all of this I actually had a hard time deciding between my #1 & #2. I gave Jerry the nod because his career body of work is unmatched the history of the NFL.

#2 Don Hutson - 488 catches, 7991yards, 99 Touchdowns, 3 NFL Championships.

I am only 41 years old and never had the pleasure of watching Don Hutson play but do consider myself a student of the game. Don Hutson is flat out the original modern day receiver. He created many of the modern day pass routes. He played in an era when teams did not throw the ball. Every modern day receiver is a direct result of what this man did on the field. 1 out of every 5 passes he caught was for touchdown compared to Jerry's 1 of every 7.8! Because of the era he played in he will more than likely hold many NFL receiving recrods that will likely never be broken all of which revolve around most season leading the league in things like receptions (8), receiving yards (7), & touchdowns (9).

Again, I found it really tough to make the decision here but because I honestly believe Jerry Rice is the greatest player in NFL history, he got the nod for the #1 receiver spot.

Because I don't want to make this a huge rambling post my final 8 will be listed without stats or comments.

3. Steve Largent

4. Randy Moss - okay I lied, I do have a comment, throw out all the like or dislike factors, there is no denying the Randy Moss is probably the greatest deep threat in the history of the NFL.

5. Lance Alworth

6. Chris Carter

7. Paul Warfield - okay, another comment, this guy averaged 20 yards per reception in his career!

8. Terrell Owens - again, love him or hate this guy had it all physically, if he had the brain and work ethic of Jerry Rice, he may have broken all of Jerry's records.

9. Don Maynard

10. Tim Brown

Honorable mention and could have arguments made for the top 10:

Marvin Harrison, Raymond Berry, James Lofton, Michael Irving

One last special mention: Sterling Sharpe, man it would have been nice to see him play a full career, he was a guy that was statistically ahead of pace of all of Jerry's records before his injury.

So anyone else have any thoughts, comments, criticisms?

If you're going for the long list, you might as well put Bobby Mitchell in there for a little more '60s representation.

 

[ivo610]

The issue I have with Huston was that while he did dominate during his era, I mean...he was essentially playing against guys off the street corner. I guess it depends how you look at it. Football before the 1950's for me I usually shrug my shoulders since the game really wasn't that refined.

If it was so easy why didn't anyone else do it?

He was the babe Ruth of football.

Players of the modern passer era, rice included, benefit from rule changes such as pass interference and a modern ball.

Don Hutson is the most dominate WR of all time, and that's something that can't be disputed. So fan are left with the option of accepting him as the best or disputing his accomplishments based on the era he played it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm not sure what you insinuating, but feel free to come out with it.

But no, for a second time, I didn't miss rices career.

I'm just puzzled. You claim he's considered the greatest because of his stats yet you claim to have seen him play, and in the playoffs. There's a disconnect there, especially given your accounting for Irvin in the HOF based on playoff performance.

Rice piled up numbers the way Ted Williams piled up numbers...with outstanding performance game in and game out, year in and year out for a long, long time.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If it was so easy why didn't anyone else do it?

He was the babe Ruth of football.

Players of the modern passer era, rice included, benefit from rule changes such as pass interference and a modern ball.

Don Hutson is the most dominate WR of all time, and that's something that can't be disputed. So fan are left with the option of accepting him as the best or disputing his accomplishments based on the era he played it.

Oh, I get it now. You were just homering on Hutson.

You know, you don't have to tear down one guy to elevate the other.

There's no need to argue who's #1 because there is no #1. That's the kind of parlor game played by undiscriminating fans when their teams drop out of playoff contention.

 

[TJV]

For me it's Hutson. He not only invented the modern WR position but did so decades ahead of anyone else. I've made the Babe Ruth comparison before (I'm not saying ivo610 stole it, just saying I've posted it before): Compare Hutson with his contemporaries and compare Rice with his. Rice is second IMO.

BTW, NFL players weren't "off the street" when Hutson played, most played football at colleges with big-time programs.

 

[ivo610]

I'm just puzzled. You claim he's considered the greatest because of his stats yet you claim to have seen him play, and in the playoffs. There's a disconnect there, especially given your accounting for Irvin in the HOF based on playoff performance.

Rice piled up numbers the way Ted Williams piled up numbers...with outstanding performance game in and game out, year in and year out for a long, long time.

Yes, I claim to have seen him because I did.

I gave credit to Irvin for his playoff performances bc a poster compared Irvin and megatron directly based on numbers. When talking about the hof for WRs you can't just pull up numbers and say this player belongs bc he had similar numbers as so n so. That's the problem with the log jam at the position in the hall. Now if the players stats are head and shoulders different then it's a no brainer. But to say megatron would deserve the hof when his numbers match another's is an unrealistic comparison. So no "disconnect", just a different comparison. I hope that cleared it up for you.

Jerry rice is the emmitt smith of receiving. Had many great seasons and played the position longer than his peers. Racked up huge stats.

Jerry is lauded as the best because of his numbers by the vast majority of his supports. It's an argument, it just shouldn't be the only one.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The issue I have with Huston was that while he did dominate during his era, I mean...he was essentially playing against guys off the street corner. And yes he did also play with those same people as teammates. I guess it depends how you look at it. Football before the 1950's for me I usually shrug my shoulders since the game really wasn't that refined. I can Rice being dominant back in those days. And I can see him being dominant now because the rules are slanted towards the offense via the pass more so. That being said, I can't see Hutson coming in here today and lighting it up.

I would remind you that in Hutson's time there was no pass interference and the QBs were tossing what amounted to a slightly modified rugby ball. Hutson was so far above his peers as to be staggering. He redefined a position and went a long way toward redefining offensive football; he shone light on what could be achieved in the passing game.

Hutson would light it up in today's game, I can assure you. He'd be the fastest guy on just about any field he walked on, just to start, and he was one tough SOB, playing two-way at safety. If his catching technique in those clips looks crude and old-timey, I suggest you get yourself a rugby ball and play a little pitch and catch...catching that ball with thumbs down and hands away from the body is not recommended.

Regardless, if you're going to dispense with Hudson as a quaint antiquity, you might as well junk guys like Jim Thorpe, Red Grange, Jesse Owens. That would be a failure to appreciate history. If anybody's wondering, that's not a good thing.

 

[ivo610]

Oh, I get it now. You were just homering on Hutson.

You know, you don't have to tear down one guy to elevate the other.

There's no need to argue who's #1 because there is no #1. That's the kind of parlor game played by undiscriminating fans when their teams drop out of playoff contention.

Someone enjoys trolling on a Tuesday night, no surprise there from your history.

My opinions on this have been noted many many times. In season. Out of season. Double digit win seasons. Now. But I guess you haven't been around long enough to realize that.

My point was merely I don't think it's a slam dunk to say rice is the best. I think Hutson has a case as well. He's frequently left out of most fans top 10s.

 

[ivo610]

I would remind you that in Hutson's time there was no pass interference and the QBs were tossing what amounted to a slightly modified rugby ball. Hutson was so far above his peers as to be staggering. He redefined a position and went a long way toward redefining offensive football; he shone light on what could be achieved in the passing game.

Hutson would light it up in today's game, I can assure you. He'd be the fastest guy on just about any field he walked on, just to start, and he was one tough SOB, playing two-way at safety. If his catching technique in those clips looks crude and old-timey, I suggest you get yourself a rugby ball and play a little pitch and catch...catching that ball with thumbs down and hands away from the body is not recommended.

Regardless, if you're going to dispense with Hudson as a quaint antiquity, you might as well junk guys like Jim Thorpe, Red Grange, Jesse Owens. That's would be a failure to appreciate history. If anybody's wondering, that's not a good thing.

I wasn't tearing down anyone, I was actually just defending Hutson... Like you just did

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes, I claim to have seen him because I did.

I gave credit to Irvin for his playoff performances bc a poster compared Irvin and megatron directly based on numbers. When talking about the hof for WRs you can't just pull up numbers and say this player belongs bc he had similar numbers as so n so. That's the problem with the log jam at the position in the hall. Now if the players stats are head and shoulders different then it's a no brainer. But to say megatron would deserve the hof when his numbers match another's is an unrealistic comparison. So no "disconnect", just a different comparison. I hope that cleared it up for you.

Jerry rice is the emmitt smith of receiving. Had many great seasons and played the position longer than his peers. Racked up huge stats.

Jerry is lauded as the best because of his numbers by the vast majority of his supports. It's an argument, it just shouldn't be the only one.

Then you have to explain yourself. In what way are Rice's stats an exaggeration of his actual value and performance?

There are reasons Rice is generally considered the best receiver in the modern game whereas Emmit Smith is not regarded as the best runner.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Someone enjoys trolling on a Tuesday night, no surprise there from your history.

My opinions on this have been noted many many times. In season. Out of season. Double digit win seasons. Now. But I guess you haven't been around long enough to realize that.

My point was merely I don't think it's a slam dunk to say rice is the best. I think Hutson has a case as well. He's frequently left out of most fans top 10s.

I've been around long enough to know...about you. Of that I am certain. Troll, huh? I would guess you would not know one if it bit you in the ***.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I wasn't tearing down anyone, I was actually just defending Hutson... Like you just did

That's your problem right there...you had to make somebody #1. That's for the chumps, not the thinking fan.

 

[Shawnsta3]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10018200/all-hail-megatron

Megatron is one of the most exciting players of all-time. This got me thinking just how talented our division is, with Adrian Peterson on the Vikings, Calvin Johnson on the Lions and Aaron Rodgers on our hometown Packers. All likely future first ballot HOF's. Legends.

 

[PFanCan]

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/10018200/all-hail-megatron

Megatron is one of the most exciting players of all-time. This got me thinking just how talented our division is, with Adrian Peterson on the Vikings, Calvin Johnson on the Lions and Aaron Rodgers on our hometown Packers. All likely future first ballot HOF's. Legends.

You forgot to mention Jay Cutler on the Bears...

 

[PFanCan]

That's your problem right there...you had to make somebody #1. That's for the chumps, not the thinking fan.

Do you two argue in every thread?

 

[Ness]

If it was so easy why didn't anyone else do it?

I never said it was easy. Again, I give credit to Don Huston for dominating in that era of football. That being said, I don't think he would be lighting it up against legitimate competition in modern era football. And if you were to take someone like Rice, Calvin Johnson, or whomever they would probably have done what Huston did if not better. Football wasn't a refined sport back then via the pass game. Defenses didn't know how to defend the forward pass and weren't the Packers the only team in the league at that time that was progressive in that aspect? Maybe Washington was the other team with Baugh. Many other teams still maintained the ground game as the only option. And I believe back in those days there were only two receivers on offensive setups. And scouting was practically nonexistent back in those days. The amount of competition was insignificant compared to today.

Players of the modern passer era, rice included, benefit from rule changes such as pass interference and a modern ball.

Sure they do. But they also don't have the advantage of going up against defenses that have no idea how to stop a staple of the game. And like I also said, the competition level is fierce. There were no Deion Sanders or Lawrence Taylors back in those days. There were no super athletic freaks geared purely for the sport of football.

Don Hutson is the most dominate WR of all time, and that's something that can't be disputed. So fan are left with the option of accepting him as the best or disputing his accomplishments based on the era he played it.

Oh hush now. That's simply your biased opinion, which is fine. "Can't be disputed" is bogus. It's only been happening for decades by tons of people so that doesn't make sense just because it isn't what you want to hear. Football is full of subjectivity and not fact. Especially when you get into comparing different eras you can't factually be objective on conjecture.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

The issue I have with Huston was that while he did dominate during his era, I mean...he was essentially playing against guys off the street corner. And yes he did also play with those same people as teammates. I guess it depends how you look at it. Football before the 1950's for me I usually shrug my shoulders since the game really wasn't that refined. I can Rice being dominant back in those days. And I can see him being dominant now because the rules are slanted towards the offense via the pass more so. That being said, I can't see Hutson coming in here today and lighting it up.

Yeah, and those street corner guys were allowed to litterally rip off your head and eat it. There were no pass interference calls. Some of the guys he was up against were war veterans with a LOT of fight left in them. He got worse than mugged, he got clothes lined, body slammed, horse collared, speared.... tons of things modern day WR's don't have to deal with. Hutson, greatest of all time, Rice, very close 2nd.

 

[13 Times Champs]

Rice and then Hutson sound about right to me.