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Greatest Receiver of All Time

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Ogsponge, Dec 3, 2013.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Considering that this is a thread titled "Greatest Receiver Of All Time," I'll announce my #1 to be Jerry Rice. I feel strongly that Don Hutson redefined the WR position and indelibly changed the nature of the game. Without discounting Hutson in any way, he benefited from his novel evolution of the position to separate himself from his peers. Rice was a tremendously gifted athlete who then pushed himself to outwork every other gifted athlete to be the greatest of all time at his position. His stats are not the defining example of his greatness, they are the confirmation of his greatness.

    Sharpe, Largent, Moore, Monk, Lofton, and others were all outstanding WRs but clearly a rung below Rice.

    My last soapbox issue is to state that great players make those around them great (as we're seeing again with Rodgers), so I never fully buy into the argument that Rice benefited from having Montana. One has to concede that it possibly was the other way around.
     
  2. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Very well said, and I respect that point of view. But you also have to consider the generational gap so to speak in the way the game was played. Lets time warp rice back into the days of Hutson for a moment. Rice would now have to contend with mauling defenders litterally killing him. He would most likely have to play a spot on defense somewhere as well, taking away valuable rest time. He would also have to give up a pair of super sticky/tacky WR gloves that help A LOT.
    Now go back in time and bring hutson into our current generation of football and give him all the added supporting items that modern day WR's have. Clearly this is all "this and thats", but the point is still valid. My opinion will never change. Hutson is the greatest of all time, rice is a close 2nd place.
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    No, other teams passed, just no one was as successful. Keep it mind it was Largent who finally broke Hutsons record. Calvin Johnson would be out 9 weeks with a broken toe in Hutson's era. See, I can play this game too.



    I think you need to read up on history if you think they didnt have great players back then. Football didnt start when you started watching in the 90s buddy. Not only did Hutson lead the league in receiving TDs he also lead the league in interceptions.


    Ok tell me another WR that has lead the league in yards 7x, receptions 8x, and receiving TDs 9x. You cant. Its never been done. Most dominate WR of all time.
     
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  4. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    And here I thought this would be a nice friendly conversation! It is rather obvious there is at least one or 2 very passionate Don Hutson fans!
     
  5. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Ok, buddy, this is where you are wrong. There are not "one or 2" very passionate Don Hutson fans, rather there are "2 or one" very passionate Don Hutson fans.

    :tdown:
     
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  6. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

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    1. Jerry Rice
    2. Michael Irving
    3. Randy Moss
    4. Cris Carter
    5. Terrell Owens
     
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  7. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    If you consider the circumstances of each player, I think you have to put Moss at #1.

    If you look at his teams, his Quarterbacks, and fact that he was known to take plays off and still put up the numbers he did in the amount of time that he played, I don't think anyone can be ranked over him.

    I have my reservations about Rice being #1 all time considering his circumstances and the length of his career. I'd put Carter, Largent, even Marvin Harrison over him.

    Although, even being a Packers fan, I can't justify putting Hudson in any top 10 receivers list. Simply because of the time period. He may have redefined the position, but he wasn't exactly playing against guys who had much athletic ability or were even career players. I think you could justify putting James Lofton ahead of him.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2013
  8. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

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    Moss may very well be the most talented. He may have had the most potential of any QB before him, but he didn't maximize it. Jerry Rice put the work in and then some.

    As far as playing longer, consistency and staying power should absolutely be considered when choosing the GOAT. Randy Moss could barely be called a #3 receiver with the 49ers at age 35. Jerry Rice was a starter in the Pro Bowl at age 40.

    With that being said, Jerry Rice did NOT solely rack up career total records.

    • Fastest player to reach 100 touchdown receptions- 120 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 12,000 receiving yards- 142 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 13,000 receiving yards- 156 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 14,000 receiving yards- 164 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 15,000 receiving yards- 172 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 16,000 receiving yards- 184 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 17,000 receiving yards- 197 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 18,000 receiving yards- 217 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 19,000 receiving yards- 234 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 20,000 receiving yards- 250 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 21,000 receiving yards- 262 GP
    • Fastest player to reach 22,000 receiving yards- 277 GP
    • Fastest player to gain 22,000 yards from scrimmage- 266 GP
    Also,
    http://www.jerryrice.net/JerryRice/accompli.htm

    Career touchdowns 193 1st
    Career receiving touchdowns 182 1st
    Career receptions 1328 1st
    Career receiving yards gained 19889 1st
    Career TD Connections (Rice/Young) 82 1st
    Career total yards 20512 2nd 21803
    Season receptions 122 2nd 123
    Season receiving yards 1848 1st
    Season receiving touchdowns 22 1st
    Season most touchdowns 23 3rd 24
    Season games with 100+ receiving yards 8 3rd 10
    Seasons league leader in receiving yards 6 2nd 7
    Seasons league leader in receiving TDs 8 2nd 9
    Seasons with 50+ receptions 11 1st
    Seasons with 100+ receptions 4 1st
    Game receptions 16 3rd 18
    Game receiving touchdowns 5 1st
    Game receiving yards 289 5th ???
    Game touchdowns 5 2nd 6
    Games with 200+ receiving yards 4 2nd 5
    Games with 100+ receiving yards 67 1st
    Consecutive 1,000 yard receiving seasons 11 1st
    Consecutive 1,000 yard seasons 11 1st
    Consecutive games with a reception 233 1st 180
    Consecutive games with a reception TD 13 1st
    Consecutive games with a touchdown 13 3rd 18
    Consecutive seasons LL in receiving TDs 3 3rd 5
    Consecutive post season games with a rec 25 1st
    49ers most career points 1080 1st
    MNF most touchdowns 31 1st
    Pro Bowl Consecutive visits 10 1st
    Pro Bowl Total visits 12 1st
    Pro Bowl 1995-1996 MVP 1st
    Super Bowl points in a game 18 1st Tie
    Super Bowl TDs in a game 3 1st
    Super Bowl reception TDs in a game 3 1st
    Super Bowl receptions in a game 11 1st
    Super Bowl receiving yards in a game 215 1st
    Super Bowl fastest touchdown 84sec 1st
    Super Bowl career TD's 7 1st
    Super Bowl career receptions TD's 7 1st
    Super Bowl career receptions 28 1st
    Super Bowl career points 42 1st
    Super Bowl career receiving yardage 512 1st
    Super Bowl career combined net yardage 527 1st
     
  9. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    Rice played an additional 6 or 7 years so of course he'd going to have better numbers. He played with 2 Superbowl winning and HOF QB's and a 2x league MVP in Oakland.

    Randy Moss played with a HOF QB for all of 3 seasons and he shattered records. Moss' rank in the Niners offense had less to do with playing ability than it did the fact that the offense was primarily based on the run because of the inability of Alex Smith to work the ball downfield.

    I think you also have to take into account that Jerry Rice was the beneficiary of being part Bill Walsh's revolutionary west coast offense and it's not like Rice was the only guy on the offense when he had guys like Roger Craig who was arguably more instrumental in making that offense work than Rice himself.

    Rice may have the numbers over Moss, but he played for longer and on better teams for much of his career comparatively to Randy.
     
  10. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Thats the most ridiculous stat I have ever heard. Fastest to 16,000 17,000 18,000 19,0000 ect.... You could also say he was the slowest. Hes the only player to 16,000 and above.
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    At first glance some of these are wrong, you should find a more accurate or up to date source
     
  12. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Irvin. Not Irving.
    Also, Sterling was better than Irvin, and better than Tim Brown. All three were part of the amazing WR Draft Class of 1987.
    Sadly for us, of course, it was Sterling who's career was cut way too short.
    But when he left, in 1994, he was right there with Jerry Rice, despite not having Montana & Young for 12 years.
     
  13. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

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    Jerry Rice made the Pro Bowl at age 40 playing with neither HOF quarterback. What the heck does having a run first offense have to do with being the #3 reciever??

    Rice @40: Pro Bowl
    Moss @36: Nobody will hire him.

    Sure, Moss has a few record but Rice is a record number of records.

    Also,

    http://www.footballperspective.com/randy-moss-jerry-rice-had-two-hof-qbs-his-whole-career/
    Randy Moss: Jerry Rice had two HOF QBs his whole career
    by Chase Stuart on January 30, 2013

    in Checkdowns, History, Receiving

    I was planning on ignoring the latest Randy Moss news, using that word liberally as it applies to things said on media day. In case you missed it, Moss said yesterday that he believes he is the greatest receiver of all time. Moss is an obvious future Hall of Famer, but Jason Lisk gave Moss’ comments the appropriate treatment yesterday.

    Today, though, Moss upped the ante by noting that “Jerry Rice had two Hall of Fame QBs his whole career. Give me that and see where my numbers are.” Yes, Rice was fortunate to play with Joe Montana and Steve Young, , but there is a pretty simple response to that. I wrote that response when Rice was a finalist for the Hall of Fame three years ago. You can read the full HOF profile I wrote on Rice, but I’ve reprinted Part III below:

    No one questions Rice’s legitimacy as a Hall of Famer. But when it comes to Rice’s ultimate legacy, the question is whether he was one of the greatest players ever, or the greatest player ever. And there will be some who think Rice’s otherworldly numbers (aka Parts I and II) need to be discounted because he benefited so much from playing with Joe Montana and Steve Young for the majority of his career. Clearly, Rice was fortunate to play with Montana and Young. No one disputes that. The question is: by how much? That’s an impossible question to answer, but what we can do is look at the seasons during which Rice was working with a non-Montana/Young QB for a substantial amount of time:

    • In Rice’s rookie year, Montana missed one game. Matt Cavanaugh started against the Eagles, who had one of the best pass defenses in the league. Rice caught 3 passes for 71 yards and a score.
    • In 1986, Rice’s second season, Montana suffered a severe back injury in week one that nearly ended his career. Jeff Kemp (6) and Mike Moroski (2) started half of the season before Montana came back. In those eight games, Rice caught 40 passes for 820 yards and 9 TDs. Over sixteen games, 80 receptions, 1640 yards and 18 TDs would have been the most impressive season by any receiver in the league. Excluding Rice (who had 86-1570-15), Stanley Morgan had the second most receiving yards (1491) and Wesley Walker was second in receiving touchdowns (12). And yes, to those observant readers, Rice’s numbers that season were better without a gimpy Montana than with one.
    • Montana and Young would start every non-strike game over the next four seasons, so let’s skip ahead to 1991. Montana had a season-ending elbow injury in the pre-season and Young injured his knee in mid-season. Steve Bono started six games for the 49ers, and Rice caught 33 passes for 415 yards and four scores playing with Bono. After losing their first start under Bono, the 49ers would win their next five games. Pro-rated over 16 games, Rice (88 receptions, 1107 yards, 10.7 TDs) would have ranked 4th, 8th and 5th in receptions, receiving yards and receiving TDs with Bono.
    • In 1995, Young went down again, and this time Elvis Grbac took over. In five starts, Rice put up an absurd 31-550-4, for a pro-rated 99-1760-12.8 (actual 122-1848-15). Those 1760 receiving yards would be good enough for #2 all-time on the single-season list.
    • Young missed four more starts in 1996, with Grbac again picking up the slack. Rice scored in every game, and caught 27 passes for 322 yards and 5 scores. The pro-rated Rice would have led the league with his 108 catches and ranked 4th with his 1288 yards; his 20 TDs would outpace the #2 man by six scores. The actual Rice had 108-1254-8.
    So for 5 seasons, Grbac (9), Kemp (6), Bono (6), Moroski (2) and Cavanugh (1) started 24 games for the 49ers. In exactly a year and a half’s worth of games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs, and ran for one score as well. That’s an average season of 89 catches, 1451 receiving yards and 16 touchdowns, or roughly the career best season for nearly every WR who has ever played the game. And, of course, only 25% of those games came during what we would typically call a wide receiver’s prime. Eighteen of those 24 games that he played without Montana or Young came during Rice’s first or second season, or when he was 33- or 34-years old. In ’95 and ’96, playing at an age when most receivers start slowing down, catching passes from Elvis Grbac, and playing with Derek Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, Rice put up numbers that could arguably pass for the best season of Cris Carter’s or Steve Largent’s career.

    And then there are the Jeff Garcia and the Rich Gannon years.

    Rice’s two worst seasons in San Francisco (ignoring 1997, when he missed most of the season with a torn ACL) were the two seasons when Garcia was the 49ers primary QB. In 1999, he had 830 receiving yards and 5 scores, and the next season he had 805 yards and seven touchdowns. Far from great numbers, but he had a good excuse: Rice was 37 and 38 years old. Only two players in NFL history, Rice and Charlie Joiner, have caught even 600 yards worth of passes at age 37 or older. Only a handful of receivers in NFL history have caught any passes at age 37 or older. It’s easy to be blinded by the standard Rice set for himself, but apart from one Charlie Joiner season, those two disappointing seasons were the best in NFL history for a man of his age. [Since I originally wrote this, Terrell Owens gained 983 yards at age 37, but no other receiver that age had even 200 yards. Owens did not play at age 38 or 39.] And then he moved to Oakland and blew those seasons away.

    Of all the unbreakable records set by Rice, what he did in Oakland may be the most impressive. At age 40, he caught 92 passes for over 1200 yards. No other player in NFL history has gained a single yard receiving while in his 40s.

    One final note: in the summer, I calculated what percentage of receiving yards came from which quarterback for over 100 receivers. For Rice, 37% came from Young, 27% from Montana, 12% from Gannon, 6% from Garcia, 5%- from Grbac, and the remainder from his other quarterbacks. For Moss, 38% came from Daunte Culpepper, 19% from Tom Brady, 10% from Randall Cunningham, 7% from Kerry Collins, 7% from Jeff George, 7% from Matt Cassel, and less than five percent from every other passer. This excludes the 2012 season, and the contributions Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick made to Moss’ career.
     
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  14. USArmyParatrooper

    USArmyParatrooper Cheesehead

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    Like what?
     
  15. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Career TD connections belongs to manning and Harrison.

    Nice article today on pft about Andre Johnson's assault on the record books without a hof QB like rice had
     
  16. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Yeah, A. Johnson went the hell off last night. Had like 13 rec for 154 yds. He also tied a JERRY RICE record last night. Most games games with 10+ catches and 150+ yards....... and he has been playing A LOT less time than rice has, and has not had the QB support that Rice did. Hmmmm
     

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