Go all in, or quick "rebuild"

[Pokerbrat2000]

LOL.....have a few bad kicks using a new holder and a couple of different long snappers and everyone forgets what you have done in the past. I would love a Kicker who never misses a FG or XP, but they don't exist. For the extra money, if a big game is won or lost by my FG kicker, I would take Crosby over trying to find a rookie or UDFA's to make those kicks.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well, rookie kickers combined to make 21 of 27 field goals from 50+ yards in 2017 while Crosby hit only one of three attempts from that distance.

Where did those rookie kickers kick those field goals? Not all fields are the same (obviously I don't think this is news to anyone) and there have been studies done that show Green Bay as one of the more difficult fields to kick field goals in (no, I don't recall the studies or where to find them but I'm sure Google can help). I would imagine that the Packers have enough needs elsewhere on the team that drafting a kicker would be wasting a pick that could be better used on a potential pass rusher, corner, linebacker, WR, TE, etc.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Going all in would really be the best option but I don't think the team is close enough for that to really work. A couple decent free agents, some luck in the draft, and a healthy Nick Perry would put the Packers in Super Bowl contention next year but that's a lot to ask (I mean, Perry isn't in a contract year so there's no way he's healthy). That being the case, trying to sign some young, improving players and hope drafted players make an impact would put this team right in the thick of things fairly quickly.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Just saw Mel Kiper's most recent mock draft (I know, basically worthless) but he somehow has Derwin James going 18th to Seattle. I fully expect James to go in the top-5 or -7 but if, somehow, that guy falls to the Packers then they could get a MASSIVE jump start on building an elite defense by taking James in the first. That would change my opinion on going all in this season.

 

[Mondio]

Every year some cheap or rookie kickers do well. Every year some veterans fail. Every year some teams are left scrambling for someone to kick reliably. Sometimes they cost games, sometimes they don't. I don't Crosby is grossly overpaid for his career and stability. Some probably, but not excessively so. If they find someone they feel will be better, keep him. If not, just pay Crosby.

 

[OldSchool101]

I would imagine that the Packers have enough needs elsewhere on the team that drafting a kicker would be wasting a pick that could be better used on a potential pass rusher, corner, linebacker, WR, TE, etc

I'm sure you've probably heard the saying "there's more than one way to skin a Cat"
It's fine to support Mason and I respect that, but proclaiming that the idea of going and grabbing late round 6th or 7th round pick at Kicker is a waste is one thing and is even a reasonable argument. Saying instead we need to use that 6th or 7th round pick at the positions you mentioned is another.
Speaking of going "all in" Which position is more likely to create an immediate impact in round 7, a Kicker or a Pass Rusher?? If we're still looking for impact Pass Rushers or Tight Ends (or just about any position for that matter) we're off our rocker. The chances of a 7th rounder even making the team this year (other than PS) is slim period.
btw, GB isn't the only team to cut a Kicker mid-stride and look for a cheaper option. Ryan Longwell was very well respected by MN (and the entire league for that matter) and he was cut under similar circumstances. Ryan was every bit as good a Kicker as Mason Crosby and the first time he went under 80% he was playing for peanuts the next year

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sure you've probably heard the saying "there's more than one way to skin a Cat"
It's fine to support Mason and I respect that, but proclaiming that the idea of going and grabbing late round 6th or 7th round pick at Kicker is a waste is one thing and is even a reasonable argument. Saying instead we need to use that 6th or 7th round pick at the positions you mentioned is another.
Speaking of going "all in" Which position is more likely to create an immediate impact in round 7, a Kicker or a Pass Rusher?? If we're still looking for impact Pass Rushers or Tight Ends (or just about any position for that matter) we're off our rocker. The chances of a 7th rounder even making the team this year (other than PS) is slim period.

I totally agree with this philosophy with both Kickers and Punters. Typically, the top ones are still available in the 6th and 7th rd. So if you need one, go grab him and lock in his rights with a later round pick. As you said, odds are he will probably have more of a long term impact than a guy at another position.

btw, GB isn't the only team to cut a Kicker mid-stride and look for a cheaper option. Ryan Longwell was very well respected by MN (and the entire league for that matter) and he was cut under similar circumstances. Ryan was every bit as good a Kicker as Mason Crosby and the first time he went under 80% he was playing for peanuts the next year

Longwell was 37 and was starting to loose his distance and basically at the end of his Career when the Vikings cut him. Vikings spent a 6th round pick on Blair Walsh and we know how well that worked out for them.

Crosby is only 33, still kicks the ball deep and IMO, still the guy I want out there kicking when a game is on the line.

 

[OldSchool101]

I actually like Crosby believe it or not. I just don’t like the way his contract is structured but it’s our own fault. I would’ve liked to seen a performance based contract that awarded him righteously according to his works. Too bad we didn’t have an 80% bonus threshold this year that would’ve benefited some.
It’s just my way of complaining, Im not gonna tell him to pack his bags just yet, we’ve both watched him split some nice long 50+ yarders in big games.
Don’t be surprised if GB gets him competition again before his contract is over though. The old saying “we were looking for job when we found this one and we can be looking again” works both ways. It’s a tough world Poker

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I actually like Crosby believe it or not. I just don’t like the way his contract is structured but it’s our own fault. I would’ve liked to seen a performance based contract that awarded him righteously according to his works. Too bad we didn’t have an 80% bonus threshold this year that would’ve benefited some.
It’s just my way of complaining, Im not gonna tell him to pack his bags just yet, we’ve both watched him split some nice long 50+ yarders in big games.
Don’t be surprised if GB gets him competition again before his contract is over though. The old saying “we were looking for job when we found this one and we can be looking again” works both ways. It’s a tough world Poker

Hey I would LOVE it if ALL players were playing on performanced based contracts. I could talk about why for the next 20 paragraphs, but it will never happen in the NFL, so why bother.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Normally I like your stats But I think this one is slightly skewed with the stats of two rookies, Chiefs Harrison Butker who was 38 of 42 (90.5%) and Eagles Jake Elliott (26-31 83.9%).

That proves my point that it's possible to find a rookie kicker capable of doing better than Crosby while saving some decent cap space though. BTW there was a third one in Ka'imi Fairbairn who had a higher percentage than Mason in 2017.

LOL.....have a few bad kicks using a new holder and a couple of different long snappers and everyone forgets what you have done in the past.

Crosby has always been an average kicker at best who is for some reason paid like an elite one.

Where did those rookie kickers kick those field goals? Not all fields are the same (obviously I don't think this is news to anyone) and there have been studies done that show Green Bay as one of the more difficult fields to kick field goals in (no, I don't recall the studies or where to find them but I'm sure Google can help).

As I pointed out at the time the Packers signed Crosby signed his new deal two years ago opposing kicker have made a higher percentage of field goals at Lambeau than him.

Longwell was 37 and was starting to loose his distance and basically at the end of his Career when the Vikings cut him. Vikings spent a 6th round pick on Blair Walsh and we know how well that worked out for them.

I don't know what happened with Walsh after his rookie contract expired but he made 85.2% of his field goals during the first four seasons of his career.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

That proves my point that it's possible to find a rookie kicker capable of doing better than Crosby while saving some decent cap space though. BTW there was a third one in Ka'imi Fairbairn who had a higher percentage than Mason in 2017.

It's also possible to find a dud rookie or even a dud veteran kicker. Crosby is the second most accurate kicker of 75 or more attempts in Packer history. His career average of 80.3% is second to Ryan Longwell's 81.6%. Chris Jacke is the next closest at 77.2%. Considering the elements that Packer kickers are asked to play in, 80% is pretty good IMO.

I'm still giving him a slight pass on last years 78.9% due to what was going on around him as well as 2 of his 4 misses were beyond 50 yards. The 4 previous years saw his percentage at: 86.7, 85.7, 81.8, 89.2.

We may never agree on Crosby, but I still think a few extra million a year is well worth having him kick when a game is on the line.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One other little "tidbit" from Crosby's 2017 that should be pointed out and then I will shut up

His career low of 19 FG attempts included a 57 yard miss against the Steelers at Heinz Field. The longest FG ever made there was 53 yards. So I would put that miss more on MM for even having Crosby attempt it. Take that one out and he was at a respectable 83.3%

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's also possible to find a dud rookie or even a dud veteran kicker. Crosby is the second most accurate kicker of 75 or more attempts in Packer history. His career average of 80.3% is second to Ryan Longwell's 81.6%. Chris Jacke is the next closest at 77.2%. Considering the elements that Packer kickers are asked to play in, 80% is pretty good IMO.

I'm still giving him a slight pass on last years 78.9% due to what was going on around him as well as 2 of his 4 misses were beyond 50 yards. The 4 previous years saw his percentage at: 86.7, 85.7, 81.8, 89.2.

We may never agree on Crosby, but I still think a few extra million a year is well worth having him kick when a game is on the line.

Crosby being the second most accurate kicker in Packers history doesn't mean a whole lot as the overall performance level at the position has significantly improved over the past few decades.

On the other hand there have been a total of 44 kickers with a 100 attempts since Crosby entered the league with him ranking 42nd amongst them in FG% over that period.

Once again, Crosby has made 79.8% of his attempts during his career at home while opposing kickers, who aren't used to playing at Lambeau, have fared better (82.7%) at Green Bay since 2007.

While there's no doubt it's possible a rookie kicker ends up struggling I would have definitely preferred the Packers to go that direction instead of overpaying for an average kicker at best.

 

[Mondio]

maybe we should go all in on a quick rebuild?

 

[PackerDNA]

maybe we should go all in on a quick rebuild?

Heh, I see what you did there, buddy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

LOL.....have a few bad kicks using a new holder and a couple of different long snappers....

I'm no fan of Crosby. His career numbers are league average at best, and that's a generous assessment.

However, as for last season, going through 3 long snappers can't be overlooked. There were a few less than clean snaps.

As for the contract, the question is not whether he's a $5.25 million kicker, his cap hit. The question is whether he's a $2.75 million kicker, the cap savings, and how confident you can secure an equal replacement.

Tampa drafted Aguayo in the 2nd. round in 2016, a "generational talent" or so it was said, despite his unconventional kicking stroke. He could not find a job in 2017 and may be one and done. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[OldSchool101]

maybe we should go all in on a quick rebuild?

As long as it starts with Kicker? I’ll sign the petition!
I’m not trying to be difficult but I’d prefer
A Quick All In..... vs. Go rebuild

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Tampa drafted Aguayo in the 2nd. round in 2016, a "generational talent" or so it was said, despite his unconventional kicking stroke. He could not find a job in 2017 and may be one and done. Be careful what you wish for.

It was an absolutely lidicrous move by the Bucs to select Aguayo in the second round in 2016. The three kickers drafted last year did pretty well though. It should be mentioned that both Elliott and Butker were picked by different teams than both of them ended up kicking for.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm sure you've probably heard the saying "there's more than one way to skin a Cat"
It's fine to support Mason and I respect that, but proclaiming that the idea of going and grabbing late round 6th or 7th round pick at Kicker is a waste is one thing and is even a reasonable argument. Saying instead we need to use that 6th or 7th round pick at the positions you mentioned is another.
Speaking of going "all in" Which position is more likely to create an immediate impact in round 7, a Kicker or a Pass Rusher?? If we're still looking for impact Pass Rushers or Tight Ends (or just about any position for that matter) we're off our rocker. The chances of a 7th rounder even making the team this year (other than PS) is slim period.
btw, GB isn't the only team to cut a Kicker mid-stride and look for a cheaper option. Ryan Longwell was very well respected by MN (and the entire league for that matter) and he was cut under similar circumstances. Ryan was every bit as good a Kicker as Mason Crosby and the first time he went under 80% he was playing for peanuts the next year

Chances of a 7th round kicker making the team are greater BUT the payoff for finding a good pass rusher in the 7th is immensely more valuable. I mean, it's not as if the Packers have Aguayo at kicker.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Chances of a 7th round kicker making the team are greater BUT the payoff for finding a good pass rusher in the 7th is immensely more valuable. I mean, it's not as if the Packers have Aguayo at kicker.

Unfortunately the Packers are paying Crosby like an elite kicker while he's an average one at best. That's not a smart way to handle the salary cap.