For Steel, P@CK66 and the other Doomsayers....

[Anubis]

From profootballtalk.com:

Please see "PACKERS LOOK "AWFUL" IN SCRIMMAGE" at http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm for the complete article.

Quote:

Although there's still a long way to go before the season opens, it's not a good sign for a squad that lost a lot in the offseason -- and did little in the way of upgrading the talent. Coupled with the uncertain status of head coach Mike Sherman and the lack of horses to make Jim Bates' defense as effective as it was in Miami, and it could be a long season for the Cheeseheads.

Then again, folks have been predicting doom and gloom for the Pack prior to each of the past couple of seasons. Meanwhile, they keep finding a way to win the NFC North.

Perhaps you should pay attention to the second part of the above quote before claimng the Pack's season is over before the gate has even been opened. As was stated above, I heard the same BS last year and guess what? The Pack took the NFC North for the third straight year.

GO PACK!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[ArizonaPackerFan]

Below was an interesting article from Vegas. The over/under is 8 for the Packers, but one hadicapper wouldn't bet against them.

"A lot of people are predicting the Packers to fall on their face," handicapper Andy Iskoe said. "But as long as they have Favre, I would not bet against them."


http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/ ... 05511.html

 

[musccy]

They're entitled to their opinion, which they happen to share with a lot of people outside of the GBP circle. You and I are a little more optimistic, but SW and Pack66 are true fans of the Pack, and they have every right to voice their concern when the Pack aren't doing all they feel they can/should to be at the top.

I

 

[ArizonaPackerFan]

Even if the doomsayers are right about this season, I think the future of the Packers has a lot of promise. I like the way TT is running things. He has a quite confidence to him and doesn't seem to get rattled with distractions like holdouts. Instead of worrying about holdouts, TT holds firm instead.

His first draft has some potential too. Granted, it's too early to know for sure how well the draft picks will do, but I like their potential. I wouldn't be surprised if we did see one of them start this year. We might have lucked out in having a franchise QB fall to us which gives us hope for life after Brett. There are a lot of unknowns for the upcoming season, but I like the foundation TT is putting down for a solid future.

I'm looking forward to both the upcoming season and the future.

 

[Anubis]

They're entitled to their opinion, which they happen to share with a lot of people outside of the GBP circle. You and I are a little more optimistic, but SW and Pack66 are true fans of the Pack, and they have every right to voice their concern when the Pack aren't doing all they feel they can/should to be at the top.

Musccy,

I am not saying that they are not entitled to their opinion. However, when you come onto a team forum such as this one, do nothing but make negative posts about that forum's team (in this case the Packers) and then insinuate that everyone that disagrees you is an idiot or "brown noser" (a la Steel Wheels), it is not exactly what I would call "voic[ing] their concern." In fact, on most forums this behaviour is known as trolling.

As far as SW being a "true fan of the Pack", from his actions I would guess he is a true fan of Bret Favre, and if Favre was to leave the Pack tomorrow, so would SW's loyalty to the team.

I am in no way saying that fan loyalty is blind (there are a few things I think the Pack should do but have not to date), but constantly running down the coaches, players and accomplishments of a sports team is not the actions of a "true fan", IMHO.

Granted, it's too early to know for sure how well the draft picks will do, but I like their potential. I wouldn't be surprised if we did see one of them start this year. We might have lucked out in having a franchise QB fall to us which gives us hope for life after Brett. There are a lot of unknowns for the upcoming season, but I like the foundation TT is putting down for a solid future.

Agreed. It should make the transition for life after Favre a lot more bearable. We have a lot of raw, young talent and if Rodgers turns out to be even half the QB Favre is, we will be a strong contender for the Super Bowl for quite a while yet.

GO PACK!

Robert C. Hedley

 

[net]

The first exhibition game hasn't been played.

Even if they lose, it's only the pre-season.

If the team looks bad after the fourth pre-season game, it's still only the exhibition season.

Why is every game like the Super Bowl to some?

The Packers are trying to find the right combo after signficant losses on both offense and defense.

Relax.

 

[musccy]

I know it can get frustrating reading what they post from time to time, in fact I was about to pull my hair out in an argument w/ 66 the other day about, of course, sherman. Even if they can be a bit too pessimistic, I like having the conflicting viewpoints on the board, and personally, I would take that extreeme over everyone happily agreeing all the time, but again, that's just me. Sometimes it's nice to have a little fire going

 

[Obi1]

Folks, its called SELF IMPORTANCE.

Chase/Steals wheels and p@ck66 want to be powerful, want to be wealthy, and want to be important. They THINK that they know as much about football as Mike Sherman. But they don't get the chance to get his position... or his salary.

They also don't have the fortitude, the confidence, or the resourcefulness to go apply for his job and let the entire NFL know how little they actually know.

They are also afraid of being proven wrong.

Bitter, antagionistic, jealous, fearful... who suffer from self importance and an out of control ego to boot... What did we REALLY expect from these two?

 

[P@ck66]

YEAH...and your FULL of it...aren't you OB1..or Packmaster..or whatever you go by...

yet..you are the master of NOTHING...you certainly don't know much about football..yet you try to come off as some authority...

You make me laugh....

Packerchatters...the old NC forum, and other forums..are full of posters who DARE comment on the fitness of Mike Sherman and the Packers..but for some reason..here...it is verboten!....

I'm starting to think that some of you people are so used to MEDIOCRITY..or perhaps even LIKE it...like there's a badge of courage to be a "long suffering" Packer's fan.....just like there is amongst the Boston Red Sox fans....

I'm glad you mentioned Sherman's salary...because he is paid handsomely to exit in the first round of the playoffs....and for some inexplicable reason...was HANDED the dual positon of GM/HC for the GBP's with little prior experience..and NO record of victory.....

that's ok though....on any other team in the league...(especially in NY) he would have been long gone...but here...you seem to think that he deserves a medal...or something...for losing playoff games and turning home field "advantage" into a joke for the Pack....

you say it's Sherman's winning record...I say it's Favre's....and you shall see once again...who is proven correct...

..one poster even went so far to say that coaching doesn't matter in football games...it's up to the player's to perform.....well I don't agree...I think a coach needs to know how to call the RIGHT plays from what he sees happening on the field....and Sherman, to me..., still seems as lost as if he's coaching his first game...

He's a choker...and he doesn't know what the hell he is doing out there....especially in the playoffs!

 

[TOPackerFan]

So the regular season winning record is Favre's but the playoff losing record is Sherman's? I'm just trying to straighten out what you were saying.

 

[digsthepack]

Good call TOP! Look, I am not a huge Sherman supporter (although I support him as our coach), and have frequently pointed out my concerns about him and his staff over the last couple years. But the reality is that some members of this board cannot get past their visceral hatred for the guy and that anger comes out at those who dare to disagree.

You know, 66, you will attract more bees with honey thant with vinegar.

OK...tee up and let me have it...I have dared to disagree!

 

[Obi1]

Exactly what I was thinking TOP.

P@ck66... I really doubt that I've EVER come off as any kind of authority but I don't need to be one to know that YOU really know very little other than what you write about.

You really CAN'T discuss anything else because, your Bitterness, hatred, jealousy, self-importance has blinded your vision... NOT that you had one before.

It does NOT bode well for you when you are hypocritical in your statements. You are quick to point out Packers losing ways in the playoffs yet, you completely dismiss his winning record in the regular season...

You point out the greatness of Favre's STATS in the regular season yet fail to mention the opposite in his playoff games...

There are a WHOLE LOT more people in those sites that you mentioned that think a LOT like the Sherman backers here.

So what is your point other than YOU HATE Sherman and you want to let the whole world know about it.

BTW, how long have you and Chase known each other?

 

[Zero2Cool]

So the regular season winning record is Favre's but the playoff losing record is Sherman's? I'm just trying to straighten out what you were saying.

I dunno why it reminded me of this but did you know that Sherman is the one who called the defensive play on the infamous 4th and 26 against the Eagles? if memory serves me correct Ed wanted to blitz but before it was called in sherman changed it

 

[P@ck66]

TO..

During the regular season...Brett Favre is a good enough QB..there may be 2 or 3 in the NFL right now...(but of that..i'm not even sure) to WIN GAMES on his talent alone....how many these amount to a year..i don't know, but it's significant...

Because he is Brett Favre..and because has the ability to do this...he can improvise and find open receivers..and stick the ball where no other QB's could...(just like Dan Marino...although Marino couldn't move at all near the end of his career). Now..this is an important point..because there are many QB's in the league who have to stick to the scripted play...and if it's not there..it's not there...But because Brett Favre has this "ablility"....he is able to make things happen and find receivers that other QB's couldn't....HE"S GOOD...better than good...he will be in the HOF someday....

Now..it has been established that Favre is GOOD (although some of you ingrate Packer fans won't agree)....BUT...one man can not do it alone....(see the Dan Marino reference above...how many times did he make it to the SB?). The point is...that you have to have the talent around you.....

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO CALL PLAYS AND MAKE DECISIONS IN CRUCIAL SITUATIONS...LIKE THE PLAYOFFS...
ESPECIALLY AGAINST HIGHER PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS...

TO...have you ever heard someone say that that coach had thoroughly OUTCOACHED the other coach and the team had won the game?

WELL, NEITHER HAS SHERMAN!

 

[Obi1]

P@ck66 wrote;

Because he is Brett Favre..and because has the ability to do this...he can improvise and find open receivers..and stick the ball where no other QB's could...(just like Dan Marino...although Marino couldn't move at all near the end of his career). Now..this is an important point..because there are many QB's in the league who have to stick to the scripted play...and if it's not there..it's not there...But because Brett Favre has this "ablility"....he is able to make things happen and find receivers that other QB's couldn't....HE"S GOOD...better than good...he will be in the HOF someday....

Now..it has been established that Favre is GOOD (although some of you ingrate Packer fans won't agree)....BUT...one man can not do it alone....(see the Dan Marino reference above...how many times did he make it to the SB?). The point is...that you have to have the talent around you.....

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO CALL PLAYS AND MAKE DECISIONS IN CRUCIAL SITUATIONS...LIKE THE PLAYOFFS...
ESPECIALLY AGAINST HIGHER PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS...

So in otherwords, SHULA was the fault that Marino didn't go to more Superbowls...Right?

 

[Steel Wheels]

From profootballtalk.com:

Please see "PACKERS LOOK "AWFUL" IN SCRIMMAGE" at http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm for the complete article.

Quote:

Although there's still a long way to go before the season opens, it's not a good sign for a squad that lost a lot in the offseason -- and did little in the way of upgrading the talent. Coupled with the uncertain status of head coach Mike Sherman and the lack of horses to make Jim Bates' defense as effective as it was in Miami, and it could be a long season for the Cheeseheads.

Then again, folks have been predicting doom and gloom for the Pack prior to each of the past couple of seasons. Meanwhile, they keep finding a way to win the NFC North.

Perhaps you should pay attention to the second part of the above quote before claimng the Pack's season is over before the gate has even been opened. As was stated above, I heard the same BS last year and guess what? The Pack took the NFC North for the third straight year.

GO PACK!

Robert C. Hedley

Bobby boy, if you are measuring Packer success by them winning the NFC North, you must be some loser.

Over the past 3 seasons the NFC North has been the worst division in the NFL. The Packers have earned their title by beating teams in the division with a combined 53-91 record over the 3 years.

The Packers 1-3 playoff record with 2 of the loses @ Lambeau over the past 3 seasons shows how insignificant winning the NFC North is and exposes them as a 2nd rate team. The Packers have not been able to compete with the best teams in the NFL during Mike Sherman's tenture as GM and HC. Something that is needed to have a shot at a NFC Championship and a Super Bowl.

 

[Obi1]

So Chase what was the NFL's reply on your request to go straight into the playoffs from pre-season?

 

[P@ck66]

Knew you were gonna post that...Sherman is definitely going to be the next Don Shula..for sure!

That's an interesting point though...i always thought Shula could never put together a decent running attack since Kiick and Csonka...and the Dolphins defenses were suspect during those years as well...plus..everything was always on Marino's shoulders...and you just can't have a well rounded team when you put it all on one guy...Hall of Famer..or no....

Listen.. you all know i hate Sherman..can't stand him...think he's a horrible, awful, terrible coach....

But I still want the Packers to win..this year...and win it all....or at least...at LEAST make it to the NFC championship game...and then...if there going to lose....lose in a slugfest to a better team...(not to go out the way they did last year..with the Vikes knowing ALL the plays that were coming before the Packers ran them)

 

[TOPackerFan]

TO..

During the regular season...Brett Favre is a good enough QB..there may be 2 or 3 in the NFL right now...(but of that..i'm not even sure) to WIN GAMES on his talent alone....how many these amount to a year..i don't know, but it's significant...

Because he is Brett Favre..and because has the ability to do this...he can improvise and find open receivers..and stick the ball where no other QB's could...(just like Dan Marino...although Marino couldn't move at all near the end of his career). Now..this is an important point..because there are many QB's in the league who have to stick to the scripted play...and if it's not there..it's not there...But because Brett Favre has this "ablility"....he is able to make things happen and find receivers that other QB's couldn't....HE"S GOOD...better than good...he will be in the HOF someday....

Now..it has been established that Favre is GOOD (although some of you ingrate Packer fans won't agree)....BUT...one man can not do it alone....(see the Dan Marino reference above...how many times did he make it to the SB?). The point is...that you have to have the talent around you.....

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO CALL PLAYS AND MAKE DECISIONS IN CRUCIAL SITUATIONS...LIKE THE PLAYOFFS...
ESPECIALLY AGAINST HIGHER PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS...

TO...have you ever heard someone say that that coach had thoroughly OUTCOACHED the other coach and the team had won the game?

WELL, NEITHER HAS SHERMAN!

So Brett Favre's HOF talent can win games in the regular season but not in the playoffs. Is that what you're saying? I can't keep all the contradictions straight.

 

[P@ck66]

TOPACKFAN...

NO...i said, Brett Favre's talent ALONE...can not win playoff games where the stakes are higher...the talent is better...and the teams are better prepared (except the Packers of course)...

oh yeah...and i almost forgot.....

a little thing called COACHING...has to come into play......

(you've heard of that TO..? it's usually illustrated on television and in books by the little ***'s and ooo's that the guy in charge draws up on the blackboard.....)

 

[digsthepack]

As much as I love Favre, he has been the achille's heel of this team in the playoffs the last several years. Granted..some of the coaching decisions were not well thought out, but still, Favre has chucked some rocks lately.

It is the bad that results from his gambling nature, and any Packers fan will live with it, given all he does for the team on the positive side ofthe column.

 

[Ryan]

P@ck66 good posts in this thread. Sticking to your thoughts but allowing a conversation and just sitting there and beating Sherman over and over. Also liked to see:

Listen.. you all know i hate Sherman..can't stand him...think he's a horrible, awful, terrible coach....

But I still want the Packers to win..this year...and win it all....or at least...at LEAST make it to the NFC championship game...and then...if there going to lose....lose in a slugfest to a better team...(not to go out the way they did last year..with the Vikes knowing ALL the plays that were coming before the Packers ran them)

Good discussions.

 

[musccy]

AND YOU HAVE TO HAVE A COACH WHO KNOWS HOW TO CALL PLAYS AND MAKE DECISIONS IN CRUCIAL SITUATIONS...LIKE THE PLAYOFFS...
ESPECIALLY AGAINST HIGHER PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAMS...

TO...have you ever heard someone say that that coach had thoroughly OUTCOACHED the other coach and the team had won the game?

WELL, NEITHER HAS SHERMAN!

It's impossible to support or debate, "The Packers lost because Sherman is dumb, he doesn't know how to prepare his team, and he was outcoached." What, SPECIFICALLY, did he do to screw over the Packers?

You still conveniently overlook Brett's performances in the playoff losses, and then pass the buck onto Sherman. How can't you direct at least some of the blame on Favre for 6 and 4 picks, and 3 TOs vs. atl?!? How many games are won by team's who's qbs throw that many picks?!?

"yeah, well brett has no talent, MS sucks, etc"...well Brett's been like this even during the Sharpe/Holmgren years...watch the string of playoff games vs. Dallas in the mid 90s.

My point...could MS be to blame for those losses...sure, but you're only listening to what you want to hear if you think he's the only reason for the Packers lack of success.

 

[TOPackerFan]

You're just reinforcing my point. You say that Brett alone is responsible for MS having a 67% winning percentage vs. a 50% winning percentage in the regular season, but that MS is responsible alone for his 33% winning percentage in the playoffs.

BTW, I've heard of coaching and Sherman is a good one. Is he the best in the NFL? No, but he is one of the best. Let's face it, if Sherman is fired after this season, he'll have a HC job within a few days.

 

[Obi1]

excellent post Musccy