FO Needs to Stay Out of LaFluer's Way

[Pokerbrat2000]

Is this real lol? As in they actually had that on the TV?

I in no way edited or altered this, so yes it is "real".

I think it was either a Aaronian Slip or the people in the graphics department were feeling rather giddy and creative that day?

 

[RRyder]

Again I understand this, but exactly when did the Packers loose all 8 starters? Some seem to be using that end of season stat to excuse poor defense, when in reality, we still weren't all that great when healthy. Sure, we saw what having a depleted defense can do against the Lions on 12/30. But we played the same Lions on 10/7, when we gave up the exact same number of points (31) and from my recollection, the defense was relatively healthy for that game and the one after it when the 49'ers put up 30 points. Week 2 Vikings put up 29. Week 3 Redskins 31.....Yes, injuries don't help, but even healthy, the Packers defense has a long way to go before being all that good.

Not for nothing but I believe the Packers D was ranked in or around the top 10 for much of the season until everybody with an ache or pain went on IR and quite honestly was much of the reason we were even in many of our games

 

[Dantés]

Most definitely injuries, coaching and level of talent all play a factor in it. I also acknowledge that it is hard to coach up a player that is getting injured all the time like Kevin King. Maybe had the Packers defense stayed more healthy during the season, we would have seen a bigger improvement than we did, I can't dispute that. But a few of the players that did stay healthy, didn't really show much improvement. So what continues to give me pause is with the amount of draft capital invested in the defense over the last 7 drafts, we should be a whole lot better than we have been. Even this upcoming draft looks like its going to again have to concentrate heavily on the defense. Sure, the failures of all that draft capital can be blamed on TT and bad evaluations, but I think when you mix in the fact that some of those players have left Green Bay and played better, coaching is still a big factor.

We can only hope Pettine is the guy and he along with LeFleur, are able to put together a solid bunch of assistants, because IMO, that is going to be the key to really improving our D.

I would disagree with that to a degree. I'm not saying everyone was fantastic, but there were a number of players who clearly had their best seasons.

Kenny Clark leveled up big time. Now he was ascending, so we don't know how much of that would have happened regardless, but it happened.

I thought Dean Lowry had his best season.

Kyler Fackrell clearly took a big step.

What they were able to get out a rookies like Alexander and Lancaster was impressive to me.

Nothing is conclusive. Whether you want to argue for Pettine or against him, there are signs out there. But I do see some promise and I respect his background as a defensive mind. If nothing changes after year two, there might be some legs to the criticism.

 

[OldSchool101]

Trust me, I'm upset as well. I was looking forward to those box seats.

Amish. My Brothers Uncles Nephews plays for GB so just let me know and I’ll get check with her to see if she can gets us box seats. I mean I’ll check with him.

I’m also a Nephew twice removed with Cousins, just in case you want box seats in Mini Apple. I heard recently through the family tree that recently he said he feels sorry for me, so I can probably approach him for a favor. You’d probably feel much more at home in box seats coming from a buggy n all.
Just let me know.. we’ll find a place for the horses at the Stadium where they won’t be disturbed.

 

[Wi. Mike now in Florida]

Forcing a GM or HC to accept failed coaches because of loyalty is the most ridiculous, most assured way to continue to hold your organization back. Let's completely commit to this guy and stay out of his way.

Well said.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Pettine's defense in 2013, in Buffalo, was 4th in DVOA without Rex Ryan. His first year in Cleveland was also pretty good (12th), though things fell apart in 2015.

I'm not "bashing talent." I'm merely saying that its equal in importance to coaching.

What is DVOA, exactly? They were 10th in yards allowed, and once again, he couldn't stop anyone in the red zone and they allowed the 20th most points. DVOA is meaningless. He can't keep points off of the board. Sorry if I'm not seeing the upside.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would disagree with that to a degree. I'm not saying everyone was fantastic, but there were a number of players who clearly had their best seasons.

Kenny Clark leveled up big time. Now he was ascending, so we don't know how much of that would have happened regardless, but it happened.

I thought Dean Lowry had his best season.

Kyler Fackrell clearly took a big step.

What they were able to get out a rookies like Alexander and Lancaster was impressive to me.

Nothing is conclusive. Whether you want to argue for Pettine or against him, there are signs out there. But I do see some promise and I respect his background as a defensive mind. If nothing changes after year two, there might be some legs to the criticism.

I will come completely clean here and its probably pretty obvious to those who know me, I am way more disappointed in the LB and Secondary coaches as far as developing players. I will fault Pettine for that only if it continues and he has the ability to change it (coaches), but doesn't exercise it. Seeing Moss gone is a good step in that direction IMO. If I am Pettine and LeFleur and have the ability, I am looking at a woefully under performing LB and Secondary group and saying "time to clean house of all the coaches involved."

In regards to Alexander, I think he had all that talent coming in, I really didn't see him improve all that much. Maybe he wore down or teams started targeting him more, but even the last 4 or so games, he seemed less effective than he did at the beginning of the season.

 

[rodell330]

Excellent point. Wish I had included in my list on page 2 of reasons the defense underachieved.

For some reason people think that just because you had success elsewhere...that it’s just going to automatically follow you. Rarely does that ever happen...you need the pieces. That’s like ordering a bacon cheeseburger but they forget to add the bacon. That’s how I look at this defense this year. All of us wanted bacon cheeseburgers...but the only thing Pettine really had to work with for more than half the year was the buns for the burger haha. The guy barely even got any beef finishing in the top 20!! haha

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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[Dantés]

What is DVOA, exactly? They were 10th in yards allowed, and once again, he couldn't stop anyone in the red zone and they allowed the 20th most points. DVOA is meaningless. He can't keep points off of the board. Sorry if I'm not seeing the upside.

It is this.

 

[OldSchool101]

I sincerely hope she’s talking about hamburgers

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[Patriotplayer90]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...ense-is-thriving-without-elite-caliber-talent

Here is a good read for everyone. Colts have $25M invested in their entire defense, yet were #11 in total and scoring defense.

I'm sick and tired of the excuses. Get someone who can elevate talent, not a coach who requires all world players to look decent.

 

[Mondio]

Playing a defense from the 90's, so much for needing to be new

 

[Dantés]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...ense-is-thriving-without-elite-caliber-talent

Here is a good read for everyone. Colts have $25M invested in their entire defense, yet were #11 in total and scoring defense.

I'm sick and tired of the excuses. Get someone who can elevate talent, not a coach who requires all world players to look decent.

There's no denying that Eberflus did a better job in 2018 than Pettine.

But as far as I can tell, the Colts ended the regular season with exactly one starter on IR. Losing key players matters and calling that a mere excuse is stupid.

Now if Pettine proves that he can't overcome a typical NFL amount of injuries and never elevates this team, then yes he should go. But when he comes in with a track record of success running a defense and loses that many guys (when the talent wasn't amazing to start with), it's absurd to draw the conclusion after year one that "Pettine sucks."

 

[AmishMafia]

I’m also a Nephew twice removed with Cousins, just in case you want box seats in Mini Apple.

I have been following your posts for some time and not at all surprised that to hear marriage to cousins has occurred in your family tree.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

There's no denying that Eberflus did a better job in 2018 than Pettine.

But as far as I can tell, the Colts ended the regular season with exactly one starter on IR. Losing key players matters and calling that a mere excuse is stupid.

Now if Pettine proves that he can't overcome a typical NFL amount of injuries and never elevates this team, then yes he should go. But when he comes in with a track record of success running a defense and loses that many guys (when the talent wasn't amazing to start with), it's absurd to draw the conclusion after year one that "Pettine sucks."

We weren't far behind them in yardage allowed. Pettine just couldn't keep anyone from scoring. Big plays and red zone D are on the coach. There is no justifiable reason that we can allow fewer yards than NE, yet nearly 80 more points.

 

[sschind]

I sincerely hope she’s talking about hamburgers

Let Grandma have her fun. She ain't got many years left.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Everyone talks about injuries. But doesnt it seem like the Packers have crazy amounts every year? Key players out every year. Are we not taking care of our bodies or stretching before games y'all?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Everyone talks about injuries. But doesnt it seem like the Packers have crazy amounts every year? Key players out every year. Are we not taking care of our bodies or stretching before games y'all?

I think one of the reasons that "it seems like a crazy amount" is that its happening to the team you are following and want to win.

Maybe Captain will post the 2018 stats from PFF if they are available yet, but guessing that once again, when the numbers shake out, the Packers weren't way off the charts from what many other teams faced in the way of injured players.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

I think one of the reasons that "it seems like a crazy amount" is that its happening to the team you are following and want to win.

Maybe Captain will post the 2018 stats from PFF if they are available yet, but guessing that once again, when the numbers shake out, the Packers weren't way off the charts from what many other teams faced in the way of injured players.

I was thinking about Captain when I posted that lol

 

[Mondio]

whatever the stats are, it is rare for teams still playing to have that many injuries period. Sure injuries happen to all teams. losing most of your starters when the depth wasn't great to start with is going to hurt. most teams that have that many injuries to their impact players are sitting exactly where we are or worse.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

whatever the stats are, it is rare for teams still playing to have that many injuries period. Sure injuries happen to all teams. losing most of your starters when the depth wasn't great to start with is going to hurt. most teams that have that many injuries to their impact players are sitting exactly where we are or worse.

I think thats true. Our key players shouldnt be going down as long and frequently as they do. But our horrible lack of position depth makes those key injuries seem 10 times worse.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Take from it what you want to, I couldn't find complete 2018 stats:

https://www.actionnetwork.com/nfl/nfl-injury-report-midseason-healthiest-most-hurt-week-10-2018

Also, this older article is pretty interesting:

https://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/are-packers-an-injury-prone-team.html

According to Football Outsiders' AGL figures, from 2008 through 2016, the last full year of data, the Packers totaled 611.4 adjusted games lost, or 67.9 per season. That average was 18th-most among the 32 teams in the NFL (technically, 17.9th), which put Green Bay near the bottom of the league's middle third – not great, but hardly one of the most-injured teams. Three times, the Packers ranked among the worst, in 2013 (30th), 2012 (32nd) and 2010 (30th), the season in which they won the Super Bowl.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think thats true. Our key players shouldnt be going down as long and frequently as they do. But our horrible lack of position depth makes those key injuries seem 10 times worse.

Winner winner chicken dinner.

This is a pitfall of being a team that relies too heavy on development. You are carrying guys that are in no way ready to step onto the field and play. It appears that Gute is trying to get away from that model to some extent. Saw that with all of his free agent signings from the start of his tenure to the end of the year.

Stock your PS with development guys, not your 53. Sure you might lose a potential gem once in a blue moon, but the next year, you start the whole process all over again.

However, that still doesn't excuse the healthy starters who went out there almost every week and stunk.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I absolutely hate the decision to retain Pettine. Here are his latest scoring defenses:

2011 (Jets) - 20th
2012 (Jets) - 20th
2013 (Bills) - 20th
2018 (Packers) -22nd

Could someone please tell me what they see in this guy? Where is this amazing track record? We just committed ourselves to another Don Capers. Mike Murphy needs to take remove himself from the decision making. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the defense kills us, YET AGAIN. Disgusted.