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FO Needs to Stay Out of LaFluer's Way

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by Patriotplayer90, Jan 9, 2019.

  1. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    Mike Pettine sucks. He needs to be shown the door yesterday. Allowing over 27 points in 9 games is inexcusable, especially to some of those opponents. He hasn't been an upgrade to Capers. They managed to find someone who was just as bad.

    LaFluer comes from an organization which was one of the best in terms of avoiding penalties, and the defensive staff took an average unit from the previous year and turned it into the #3 scoring defense. Let's trust that he learned something from that experience, and can apply that to his coaching hires.

    Forcing a GM or HC to accept failed coaches because of loyalty is the most ridiculous, most assured way to continue to hold your organization back. Let's completely commit to this guy and stay out of his way.
     
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  2. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    LaFleur's output in terms of offensive rankings across the NFL weren't overly impressive either. However, I know that he didn't have much to work with and I see a lot of potential, which is why I'm good with the hire.

    You have to also consider what Pettine did (did not) have to work with as well. You can't use Pettine's statistics against him, while at the same time excusing/dismissing/ignoring LaFleur's. Both had little to nothing to work with.
     
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  3. XPack

    XPack Cheesehead

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    Trolling?
     
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  4. Patriotplayer90

    Patriotplayer90 Cheesehead

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    We say this each year. Maybe it's not the players, but the coaching?

    I know we suffered injuries and losses, but we were no better before that. We had Daniels, Clark, Martinez, Alexander, and Haha on the defensive side of the ball, as well as a double digit sack OLB, yet we allowed 30 to CJ Beathard. That's just shocking. It doesn't really equate to LaFluer having a QB who can't grip the ball and nothing but 2nd year and practice squad players at receiver and TE. And LaFluer's offense had really good games against playoff teams like Dallas, NE, and Philadelphia. He even put up enough points to best Houston witBlaine Gabbert and missing his top 3 tackles. Pettine sucked against any decent offense, and sometimes even the bad ones.
     
  5. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    Pettine isn't a problem. injuries and a lack of talent is. we've no idea at this moment (an hour before the presser) if he was retained by Murphy or was already on MLF's list, as i saw reported. hopefully that question is asked and answered at the presser. i think now that this HC thing is out of the way that Murphy will back off but still keep a close eye on things as he doesn't want to get burned again.
     
  6. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    Zero pro bowlers. Zero. Clark is good. Martinez is good, but limited. Alexander is an ascending player, but young. Daniels is good but aging. And HaHa? I'm not sure if that was meant as a joke (pun intended), but he was awful and it was laughable the number of people defending him. It was no surprise that the defense played even better after he left.

    There were moments for this defense in the early stages of the season like shutting down the Bears in the 2nd half opening night, shutting out the Bills (yes, I know it was the Bills, but there were only like 9 shut outs in two seasons prior to this one in the NFL, they aren't a common occurrence), getting timely stops in the 4th quarter to give Rodgers a chance to beat the 49ers, which has been something we haven't seen in a long time, making the Rams look unrecognizable in the first half of that game, when by the way the offense couldn't do a damn thing to support the defense, and played the Patriots tough for three quarters.

    The games after that:

    12 to Miami
    27 to Seattle
    24 to Minnesota
    20 to Arizona
    20 to Atlanta
    24 to Chicago

    Those outputs are good enough to win football games especially in today's NFL. The average of those 6 games after the Packers caught their stride would have been good for 11th in the NFL. Not great, but more than good enough. Of course the last two games were played with skeleton crews defensively so I'm not going to bother giving merit to those scores.

    Pettine in year one has me feeling very comfortable about where the defense is heading. I mean, were you seriously expecting him to field a top 10 defense in year one???
     
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  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    When Lombardi came in, he demanded that the board stay out of his way. I'm not sure that LaFleur has that confidence, but am also not sure that the FO is meddling or will meddle as much as the conspiracy theory posits.
     
  8. gbgary

    gbgary Cheesehead

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    it's way different now then back then. night and day. the board had more power and involved themselves in actual football matters. Lombardi put them in their place. today they watch the beans being counted and the matters surrounding them. the FO isn't meddling...it's doing it's various jobs. we'll see less of Murph now that this decision has been made.
     
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  9. Zartan

    Zartan Cans.wav Staff Member Moderator

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    For people saying his offensive power sucks. When Pack hired MM the 49ers were ranked 30th in offense. Ranking is irreverent
     
  10. pacmaniac

    pacmaniac Cheesehead

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    That's what the expectation seemed to be, considering after he got hired just about every other post on here was mentioning how he had never fielded a defense ranked lower than 10th.
     
  11. Packer Brother

    Packer Brother Cheesehead

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    I don't like that the coach reports directly to the president. What is the point of having a GM?
     
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  12. Alex

    Alex Cheesehead

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    I agree. Mark Murphy needs to chill out and let people do their jobs they were hired to do. He's not Al Davis, or Jerry Jones. Not sure who keeps him in check but they need to.
     
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  13. morango

    morango Cheesehead

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    I think there are more than a few who agree with you
     
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  14. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    any body gotta link that says Murphy is calling the shots? anybody? I mean last year, Ted was still calling the shots, or so we heard from numerous guys on here. Not Gute, Not Murphy, Ted. Gute was the yes man. Then of course FA started and there were fewer and fewer of those guys. But as soon as Gute was hired, it was almost comical some of the conspiracy stuff that was come up with on here. Murphy was too busy trying to make money and not involved in the team aspect enough. If I cared to, I could go back and find enough posts to fill a page. Then it was M.Murphy needed to step in and reign in Ted, cut him loose, fire some coaches and make the head coach make some staffing changes. But he cared more about Titletown District than the team. Now the president, GM and Russ Ball go thru the process of finding a new HC that hasn't even named a staff yet, and you guys have Murphy pegged again LOL

    Does anybody ever just STFU and see what actually transpires before forming opinions, let along strong ones?
     
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  15. Dantés

    Dantés Gute Loot

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    Yes, because if years of excellence as a DC has taught us anything, it's that we should assume that Mike Pettine's defense in 2018 is all he's capable of.
     
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  16. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

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    I know the answer to this but I have to ask it anyway. Are you new to this game?;)
     
  17. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    No, but I do ask a lot of rhetorical questions
     
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  18. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    I won’t say anything about Murphy wanting to treat this new guy like his puppet...like he’s done everyone else who’s been here including Gute. Next thing you know Murphy will be trying to pick his coaching staff for him...oh wait:whistling::rolleyes:
     
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  19. OldSchool101

    OldSchool101 Peerless Beer, Lacrosse WI

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    This was a good move from the perspective that we absolutely had to try something different. The status quo had become substandard
    We got stale bread and stale bread don’t cut the mustard. Time to get fresh bread and grab a clean cutting board. We need a few state of the art utensils (new talent) and a new knife sharpener (better coaches).

    My only concern now is I don’t want any cross contamination from the influenza of yesteryear.
    Don’t misunderstand me.. I like Pettine but I’m also concerned about us trying to do everything half way. If you want to promote a culture of change? feelings are going to get hurt. You have to fully trust the new HC or you undermine his ability to do his job with 100% effectiveness and you strip him of his credibility.

    I want to believe that LaFleur chose Pettine on his own after careful consideration about his recent defensive success. On one hand, to bring in another DC is a big gamble because we could easily lose not only the last year of modifications, but then add another year to just to get back to where we are now with a new system. Our Defensive unit did improve slightly and had our Offensive production not struggled so much in 2018 I feel like we could’ve at least made a shallow playoff run. We played some good teams respectably, we just were a few game changing personnel (and a healthy #12) and some better disciplined coaching away from a different type season.

    Pettine lost Mo Wilkerson very early in the season and Mo was the co-anchorman of our D Line. Mo was also a chessboard Castle in a game where Pettine plays the Castles as effective weapons. Mo was absolutely disruptive throughout preasesson and just starting to show promise in the regular season when he was season ending IRd. We struggled mightily in run D. That in turn became our Achilles heal. If we had not lost Mo and added just one more guy like a LVE type ILB we would’ve looked a lot different. Opponents would’ve had to challenge our secondary earlier and more often they would’ve encountered a much improved passing D.

    I 100% think we can right this ship with the addition of 2-3 FA starters (preferably 2 elite level) and a solid draft and we absolutely set ourselves in position to do exactly that. We have an aggressive GM, A young, Offensive minded HC, a seasoned and successful DC, a moderate amount of cap space and one of the better draft capital in the league going into next year. I also believe Aaron Rodgers gets better protection and a few weapons on Offense and if he doesn’t go down again 1st half of the first game.. we will be s legitimate threat again in the NFC North.

    The FA players we stand to lose don’t outway the resources that are about to be injected into all 3 phases of this team.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  20. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    Someone might have been referring to the question raised at the end of the press conference today. The press asked "who does MF report to" and Murphy quickly said "he reports to me".

    41:20 mark

    https://www.packers.com/video/matt-lafleur-introduced-as-head-coach-of-the-green-bay-packers

    I think with the Murphy-Gute setup it isn't just one guy calling all the shots, but they collaborate on a lot of things. I also imagine they both know when the other has more expertise on something than they themselves might.

    For now it could be a decent working relationship and I hope it stays that way, but if things ever go South, I think they will both go down together.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2019
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  21. Dblbogey

    Dblbogey Cheesehead

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    Not only irreverent, but irrelevant too.
     
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  22. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    What does a lack of talent look like as compared to bad coaching?

    A big part of a coach's job is developing talent.

    Laugh if you want about saying Haha is talented, but he was. At one time, Haha was on most lists as thee upcoming breakout player. He was on the upswing and looked like he was going to be an impact player. You can say the same about Perry. To a lesser degree, it's also true about Hyde, Haywood, randall and Rollins. Hyde and Rollins are all pro - after they left. Did they suddenly become talented?

    LeFleur became OC in LA and went from last to first in offense with 9 of 11 starters. Did they suddenly become talented?

    Packers ended 1958 in last place. There were 15 players on the roster who were eventually all pro or hall of fame. That is a lot of talent that won only 1 game in a season. I doubt they would have achieved that in their careers if Lombardi didnt come to town.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2019
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  23. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Other teams have been moving to this structure. Think about it, it makes good sense. It limits the power of the GM and forces a more cooperative relationship. HC more able to stand up for important issues to the GM when the GM doesnt have the power to fire the HC.

    GM is still responsible for scouting departments, draft, and FA acquisition. Everything a GM does except hire/fire HC.
     
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  24. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    People have bosses where they work. The power structure this year, is no different than last year. and clearly from the Thread title to most posts after, it's not about who the head coaches boss is.
     
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  25. PackAttack12

    PackAttack12 R-E-L-A-X

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    Players like Hyde, Hayward, and Rollins have nothing to do with the point I was making about Pettine and the impact he's had on the defense. What did HaHa do when he got to Washington?

    I've been on the record multiple times saying that Capers was awful especially towards the end, but it's undeniable that he also didn't have much talent to work with as well.
     

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