Five knee-jerk reactions to Packers first training camp practice

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HardRightEdge

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Did anyone else notice that Janis almost blocked two punts in the
New England game?
While "almost" counts for a lot much of the time, a lot more often than just with horseshoes hand grenades, I can't say I put much stock in almost blocking a punt.
 

Joe Nor Cal Packer

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There have been a lot of great body-catching WRs over the years. Most recently, Wes Welker comes to mind. Gary Clark was another. So was Lynn Swan. I'll less concerned about how a guy catches the ball than I am that he catches the ball.



I'd say White has a tenuous hold on that spot right now, but could easily lose it.
Well catching the ball is the most important thing. As Captain points out, Janis needs to refine his route running and be able to win contested passes. If all he has is speed they'll put a safety over him. I liked the TD Thursday night, but most times they just are not that easy. Right now all I see out of Janis is speed and size. He'll have to do better than that.
 

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There's no doubt in my mind that Janis has the speed to get separation against a lot of corners in the NFL and that body catching the ball isn't an issue as long as he's wide open.

He has to prove that he's capable of increasing his catch radius to haul in contested catches though as well as improve his short to intermediate route running. Otherwise teams would provide the corner covering Janis with safety help over the top and shut him down.

I'm convinced Janis will make the team, we'll see if he gets any significant playing time in the regular season.



I wasn't impressed with White vs. the Patriots at all. It seems he has made a ton of plays in practice but if that success doesn't translate to preseason games he won't make the team. Larry Pinkard was a bit of a surprise during the game, if not for an overthrown ball by Hundley he would have had two long catches.



Unfortunately it's nearly impossible to body catch balls with a cornerback in close coverage. As long as he's wide open he should be fine but I want to see him make some tough catches as well. The second pass he caught on Thursday is what I want to see more often during the preseason.
Thanks I just didn't understand some of the post game praise for White. He seems to be a decent route runner, but looked gun shy on contested passes. And he's been in the system so if anyone should be stepping up, it's him.

I certainly hope - to your point - that Janis improves his route running and ability to win contested passes. The TD was great, but I don't think there was safety help. That trick will get picked up fast if he can't develop as a threat underneath.
 

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OK peeps, this thread is about the first camp practice which was several weeks ago by now. It deserves to drop to page two. The past several pages have been mostly the same comments I can find in several other threads. I will ask nicely this one time to let it go.
 

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While "almost" counts for a lot much of the time, a lot more often than just with horseshoes hand grenades, I can't say I put much stock in almost blocking a punt.


Agreed but all it will take is one and then the "almosts" become a little more significant. It's a huge play and a rare one for any team so just getting close is kind of exciting in and of itself. If the player who consistently gets close can actually come up with one it changes the whole outlook. It becomes a more realistic possibility each time he gets close.

Its like a runner who has those moves where it looks like he is just a half a step from taking every run to the house. If he never breaks the long one you start to think that is all he has but once he breaks the long one you realize just how close all those others were.

Ahman Green was that sort of runner for me. So many times he was this close (I'm holding my fingers real close together) to busting one and because I had seen him bust several I knew each one of those was a real possibility.

I'm not saying getting close will land Janis a spot but if he gets one all those close ones suddenly take on a different meaning. At least they do to me.
 

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Well catching the ball is the most important thing. As Captain points out, Janis needs to refine his route running and be able to win contested passes. If all he has is speed they'll put a safety over him. I liked the TD Thursday night, but most times they just are not that easy. Right now all I see out of Janis is speed and size. He'll have to do better than that.

If you want to talk about hands, there was a WR who dropped 3 passes and it was White, not Janis. I've seen no complaint from anyone in the know about Janis's ability to catch the ball.
 

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I certainly hope - to your point - that Janis improves his route running and ability to win contested passes. The TD was great, but I don't think there was safety help. That trick will get picked up fast if he can't develop as a threat underneath.

He proved himself a threat underneath last year. I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas from.
 

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He proved himself a threat underneath last year. I'm not sure where you're getting your ideas from.

When exactly did he prove himself at ANYTHING last year? I'm not sure we're you're getting your ideas from.
 
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If you want to talk about hands, there was a WR who dropped 3 passes and it was White, not Janis. I've seen no complaint from anyone in the know about Janis's ability to catch the ball.

There have been complaints about his catching radius though. By body catching the ball he diminshes it significantly and won´t be able to haul in most contested balls.
 

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When exactly did he prove himself at ANYTHING last year? I'm not sure we're you're getting your ideas from.
You made the claim that he's nothing but speed and he can't fight for a catch and he can't do anything underneath. I said he proved he could go underneath on his first TD last year and also again Thursday night, BTW. It's simple really. There have also been no complaints about excessive drops from the coaching staff in two years and in fact they've made the comments that he has made some high difficulty catches, so THAT is where I get my idea. Now again, since you dodged the question the first time, where do you get YOURS from that he won't go strong for the ball or go underneath?
 

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You made the claim that he's nothing but speed and he can't fight for a catch and he can't do anything underneath. I said he proved he could go underneath on his first TD last year and also again Thursday night, BTW. It's simple really. There have also been no complaints about excessive drops from the coaching staff in two years and in fact they've made the comments that he has made some high difficulty catches, so THAT is where I get my idea. Now again, since you dodged the question the first time, where do you get YOURS from that he won't go strong for the ball or go underneath?

Well I didn't say anything about Janis going underneath. You were responding to another poster.

And doing something once or twice in a preseason game isn't proof of anything.
 

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Well I didn't say anything about Janis going underneath. You were responding to another poster.

And doing something once or twice in a preseason game isn't proof of anything.

It's proof that he can do it.
 

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It's proof that he can do it.

Well then there's an absolute ton of players that have "proven" they can do alot of things. D Jones has busted up a running play in the backfield before so I guess the fuss over him not being good against the run is overblown cause he's "proven" that he can do it. He even "proved" he can do it in a regular season game so right there that's a step up from Janis
 
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There have been complaints about his catching radius though. By body catching the ball he diminshes it significantly and won´t be able to haul in most contested balls.
The catch radius issue goes beyond contested balls (tight coverage, back shoulder, etc.). It's also about balls intentionally thrown away from defenders ("thrown open" as the expression goes), or throws that are unintentionally a bit high or bit out in front. It's less of an issue on floating deep balls like Janis' TD catch in this last preseason game; it is an issue on short to intermediate routes where the ball comes up on the receiver with velocity either high or away. 15 years ago, body catching was less of a disqualifier. In today's offensive state-of-the art it is much more so.

I cannot recall Janis being thrown a short to intermediate ball where he needs to reach for it in stride. I'd like to see one. This begs a question...are Packer QBs limiting their Janis throws to the deep floaters and those where they can safely target his chest?

Then there's the matter of route running. The idea that a receiver's play call is "run 10 yards and out" being a fixed prescription is far in the NFL rear view mirror. There are plenty of option routes in NFL offenses today based on the receiver's defensive read that needs to be in tune with the QB read. And even if he has a fixed route in a combo play, there's latitude in the line he takes based on the defense. If a receiver can't be trusted to go where the QB reads he should go, the lack of trust will sharply limit opportunities.

We need to see more of the right kind of things. We know Janis can throw a double move on a guy and kick it into high gear. But if that's all he has, it is not enough for anything but spot play and special teams. That's the dictionary definition of a guy on the bubble.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Well then there's an absolute ton of players that have "proven" they can do alot of things. D Jones has busted up a running play in the backfield before so I guess the fuss over him not being good against the run is overblown cause he's "proven" that he can do it. He even "proved" he can do it in a regular season game so right there that's a step up from Janis.
Doing something once is not a particular qualifier. An occasional flash play without down-in-down-out consistency is of limited worth.
 
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HardRightEdge

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If you want to talk about hands, there was a WR who dropped 3 passes and it was White, not Janis.
While I was a little disappointed with White's performance in this last game, it's a bit difficult to charge a guy with 3 drops when the box score shows 1 catch on 2 targets, don't you think?

And the one noticeable missed target was a difficult high sideline throw that probably would not count as a drop, though we would have liked to see him bring that in to count him as something other than a short route runner.
 

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Well then there's an absolute ton of players that have "proven" they can do alot of things. D Jones has busted up a running play in the backfield before so I guess the fuss over him not being good against the run is overblown cause he's "proven" that he can do it. He even "proved" he can do it in a regular season game so right there that's a step up from Janis

See, wasn't so hard, was it?
 

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While I was a little disappointed with White's performance in this last game, it's a bit difficult to charge a guy with 3 drops when the box score shows 1 catch on 2 targets, don't you think?

No, it's not. He dropped a pass hit that him in the hands from Tolzien in the second quarter and he also dropped a 2-point conversion. Box scores don't count conversions, but it's still a drop. Box scores don't tell the whole story.

And the one noticeable missed target was a difficult high sideline throw that probably would not count as a drop, though we would have liked to see him bring that in to count him as something other than a short route runner.

It wasn't that difficult. It was a throw that was certainly catchable. So while he didn't get his hands on it, I suppose it's technically not a drop but it's a throw that should have been caught, so I'll adjust his drop total to 2.5 for the game. Better?
 
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No, it's not. He dropped a pass hit that him in the hands from Tolzien in the second quarter and he also dropped a 2-point conversion. Box scores don't count conversions, but it's still a drop. Box scores don't tell the whole story.

It's true that White had a drop on the two-point conversion and while it would have been a tough catch on the derp ball by Tolzien he could have made the catch. He didn't have another target in the game though (just watched all pass plays from the second quarter again).

I was disappointed with his performance after reading the positive reviews from camp though.
 

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It's true that White had a drop on the two-point conversion and while it would have been a tough catch on the deep ball by Tolzien he could have made the catch. He didn't have another target in the game though (just watched all pass plays from the second quarter again).

I was disappointed with his performance after reading the positive reviews from camp though.
Well, everyone has a bad game from time to time. I think Jordy had a game a while back where he dropped 2 or 3 balls, IIRC. So hopefully he turns that around and produces in the next three games. I want our #5 receiver to be the better player whether the last name be White or Janis. If either one gets the spot it shouldn't be because the other fell flat on his face. I want this decision to be a tough one.
 

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