Edgar Bennett is out as Packers’ offensive coordinaor and Alex Van Pelt is out as Packers’ QB coach,

GBkrzygrl

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Well, folks tend to have a rigid hierarchical view of how decisions are made: the GM has complete decision making power over player personnel, the head coach has complete decision making over coaches.

Maybe McCarthy has not been enamored of Capers or having guys like Bennett getting promoted into positions they don't actually hold. Maybe that was Thompson's doing, not wanting to shake things up, promoting guys to give them pay raises so they don't leave, keeping things stable and comfey.

We'll never know unless somebody writes a tell-all book. One thing is for sure: you'd be hard pressed to find any organization where the boss sits back and says nothing while letting his reports have free reign. We call that a stuffed suit and they don't last very long.

As for Marvin Lewis, I do not know the situation well enough to comment.

This is confusing to me. Who hires the coaches? Isn't it the HC? If so wouldn't he decide if someone is promoted? I always found the title Associate/Head Coach confusing as well. What does that me exactly and who makes that decision? Just askin.
 

Mondio

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those titles are just to prevent guys from moving to other teams in a title change. as for here, i think MM has always been in charge of his staff, I have zero reason to believe he hasn't been.
 
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HardRightEdge

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This is confusing to me. Who hires the coaches? Isn't it the HC? If so wouldn't he decide if someone is promoted? I always found the title Associate/Head Coach confusing as well. What does that me exactly and who makes that decision? Just askin.
That depends, and not necessarily. Things are not always that simple.

For example, did McCarthy hire Capers? Maybe, maybe not. He was a relatively inexperienced HC at the time while having worked his entire career on the offensive side of the ball. It might well have been Thompson's doing. If that was the case and if McCarthy had some solid reasons to say "no", then it probably would not have happened. Keep in mind the hiring of Capers implied a switch from 4-3 to 3-4 with some significant personnel changes and two first round picks tailored to the scheme.

So, this example illustrates the point that you cannot say the HC picks his coaches and the GM picks the players. If you did, then McCarthy's choice of Capers forced Thompson's hand in personnel decisions involving what was at the time a very large sum of money pre-rookie salary scale. At a minimum, the 3-4 decision and the choice of Capers was a strategic one that had to be at least collective involving the GM.

Fast forward several years. Has McCarthy been enamored of Capers performance? Maybe not. But Capers was probably taking down a pretty big paycheck with guarantees requiring a big buyout. Maybe Thompson didn't want to make the change or Thompson did not want to pay the buyout or both. Kinda like dead cap, right?

Now, Thompson's been kicked upstairs or sideways, McCarthy got a one year extension, and Capers is gone. It will be interesting to see if McCarthy gets to hire his DC before the new GM is in place. That might be surprising. You would not expect a football man to negotiate what may be an expensive contract.

That takes me to the general topic of budget control. Does the HC have total control over the pay and promotions of his coaches? That's not likely. These are not admin assistants. There's serious money involved. Again, one would expect some collective decision making in these matters.

I hate to say this, but was Bennett's promotion McCarthy's idea when he didn't seem to have a job for him? Was it affirmative action in the hopes he'd grow into the job which didn't happen? That's the kind of thing that comes from above. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's important to have a black coach or two or a black front office guy if for no other reason than it's predominantly a black player's game. Sure, every once in a while some highly paid knucklehead will refer to the NFL as a plantation. But when you strip away the hyperbole, there's a point to made that needs to be recognized. And that recognition isn't necessarily just a HC decision.
 
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McKnowledge

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What's wrong with Philbin? Do you not remember what this offense looked like last time he was here? They lit the field up.

"Philbin's" offense was scary no doubt...seven seasons ago. The team had Jordy Nelson in his absolute prime, Jermichael Finley terrorizing LBs and Safeties, Donald Driver (50/50 God), Greg Jennings, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Ryan Grant, James Starks, and as far as O-Line...wow. Also, (side note) that defense was nasty. So let's see what Philbin can do upon his return. Recreating one of the best offenses ever?...ok. This coaching staff and organization need a fresh perspective and looking internally or going after retreads won't get it done.
 

McKnowledge

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I hate to say this, but was Bennett's promotion McCarthy's idea when he didn't seem to have a job for him? Was it affirmative action in the hopes he'd grow into the job which didn't happen? That's the kind of thing that comes from above. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's important to have a black coach or two or a black front office guy if for no other reason than it's predominantly a black player's game. Sure, every once in a while some highly paid knucklehead will refer to the NFL as a plantation. But when you strip away the hyperbole, there's a point to made that needs to be recognized. And that recognition isn't necessarily just a HC decision.

All of this could've been left out your post.
 

weeds

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All of this could've been left out your post.

Why? Look, when doing internal self- evaluating, no idea is too uncomfortable to discuss and/or consider. I've sat in board meetings where some topics discussed would irritate those with frail sensibilities...perhaps even make them cry.
 

McKnowledge

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Why? Look, when doing internal self- evaluating, no idea is too uncomfortable to discuss and/or consider. I've sat in board meetings where some topics discussed would irritate those with frail sensibilities...perhaps even make them cry.

It should've been left out because it served no purpose in relation to the rest of the post. Also, those with "frail sensibilities" probably shouldn't be on open forums. I can't speak on your experience in board meetings, not my concern. I was really interested in the point that person was trying to make; "But when you strip away the hyperbole, there's a point to made that needs to be recognized. And that recognition isn't necessarily just a HC decision". What?!!! I was really hoping to correspond with the person that made the initial post.
 
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HardRightEdge

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All of this could've been left out your post.
Why? Do you believe affirmative action does not exist? Do you believe it could not exist in Green Bay?

The NFL has an entire program that requires to teams to interview minority candidates for key positions.
 

McKnowledge

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Why? Do you believe affirmative action does not exist? Do you believe it could not exist in Green Bay?

The NFL has an entire program that requires to teams to interview minority candidates for key positions.

I do believe in meritocracy, true meritocracy. Furthermore, the Rooney Rule has been circumvented since its inception. Its actually become counter-intuitive It might be time to either get rid of it or come up with another solution. Ideally, NFL ownership would get more diverse, and it would trickle down.
 

Packer Fan in SD

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Well, now there is a chance for that with the Panthers to be sold. Just need to come up with a few billion dollars.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I do believe in meritocracy, true meritocracy. Furthermore, the Rooney Rule has been circumvented since its inception. Its actually become counter-intuitive It might be time to either get rid of it or come up with another solution. Ideally, NFL ownership would get more diverse, and it would trickle down.
That's your opinion. That does not explain why the subject should not be broached. By the way, your bolded statement above is interesting given your preference for "true meritocracy". Perhaps you'd like to share your thoughts on the estate tax. ;)

As for the Rooney Rule, one report has Doug Whaley interviewing for the GM job. I think he did a pretty good job in Buffalo but like so many he never found a QB.
 
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McKnowledge

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That's your opinion. That does not explain why the subject should not be broached. By the way, your bolded statement above is interesting given your preference for "true meritocracy". Perhaps you'd like to share your thoughts on the estate tax.

As for the Rooney Rule, one report has Doug Whaley interviewing for the GM job. I think he did a pretty good job in Buffalo but like so many he never found a QB.

Lol. I could give a Buffalo nickel about estate tax. Also, I find your aversion to diversity perplexing given your hamhanded comment regarding Edgar Bennett, which was the reason I responded in the first place. Of course, the subject should be open for discussion. I simply took issue with your statement...your opinion. Can't speak on Doug Whaley, the city of Buffalo, or its team; they're not relevant to me.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Lol. I could give a Buffalo nickel about estate tax. Also, I find your aversion to diversity perplexing given your hamhanded comment regarding Edgar Bennett, which was the reason I responded in the first place. Of course, the subject should be open for discussion. I simply took issue with your statement...your opinion. Can't speak on Doug Whaley, the city of Buffalo, or its team; they're not relevant to me.
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I have an aversion to diversity. Observing a failed attempt at it does not constitute an aversion, nor does the observation that it might not have been McCarthy's decision. Bennett was given a title without having the job. And when he didn't grow into the title and the job, we get the current unfortunate circumstance for all parties concerned.

You didn't take issue with my opinion. You took issue with even broaching the subject.

If you are interested in pure meritocracy you should have an opinion on the estate tax. ;)

It's fine now that Doug Whaley is irrelevant to you since as sit turns out the Packers did not hire him.
 
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Packer96

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This is a long stretch. But I would really like to see what Romo could do as a OC. He seems to really understand what defenses will call or do. He understands blitzes and offenses in general. He has Wisconsin ties and I think he could really bring a different perspective to this offense. But not sure if he wants to give up the booth to go back on the sidelines. However, I get a sense he itches to be part of a team

Was thinking the same thing listening to him today, why not?
 

McKnowledge

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I don't know how you came to the conclusion that I have an aversion to diversity. Observing a failed attempt at it does not constitute an aversion, nor does the observation that it might not have been McCarthy's decision. Bennett was given a title without having the job. And when he didn't grow into the title and the job, we get the current unfortunate circumstance for all parties concerned.

You didn't take issue with my opinion. You took issue with even broaching the subject.

If you are interested in pure meritocracy you should have an opinion on the estate tax. ;)

It's fine now that Doug Whaley is irrelevant to you since as sit turns out the Packers did not hire him.

I didn't even know Doug Whaley was considered for the GM position. Second...don't ever assume nor state that you know what is in my mind or heart. Third, this forum is related to football specifically Green Bay Packer's football. The estate tax isn't relevant to this discussion. I'm not well versed on the matter, so I'm not gonna get into a debate about it, because....this is a football forum for the Green Bay Packers. Where we both agree? Bennett's job title was nominal only. He was never given the opportunity to perform the duties of the job. Whether it was from management or MM, the fact that Bennett wasn't allowed to call plays is disingenuous. The fact that Alex Van Pelt, whose job title was beneath Bennett was allowed to call plays is insulting. Edgar Bennett is a GB stalwart, and not some black coach that needed to fill a black coach quota. He worked hard, made his players better, and was sacrificed for an one year extension on behalf of MM.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I didn't even know Doug Whaley was considered for the GM position. Second...don't ever assume nor state that you know what is in my mind or heart.
You didn't know about Whaley being considered after I mentioned in and you commented on it?! As for the second part above, I suggest you take your own advice.

And as for the estate tax, you raised the subject by saying you believe in "pure meritocracy".
 
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HardRightEdge

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Where we both agree? Bennett's job title was nominal only. He was never given the opportunity to perform the duties of the job. Whether it was from management or MM, the fact that Bennett wasn't allowed to call plays is disingenuous.
Which takes me back the nub of my original point, which was in response to the popular and simple-minded belief that there are these Chinese walls in the Packer organization (or most any organization for that matter), where the HC picks the coaches and the GM picks the players, and neither the twain shall meet. The events you describe indicate Bennett's promotion was not McCarthy choice. And I seriously doubt he had more than 49% say in Capers disposition up to this point.
 

PackerfaninCarolina

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Wow. Craziest offseason in memory.

Hundley lost Van Pelt his job lol jk.

While this post may have been made with a bit of facetiousness, I actually do believe there's some truth to it. That Hundley was terrible about stepping up in the pocket to buy time I put on the QB coach's head somewhat. 3 years in development and was the most inaccurate passer I've seen in Green Bay in a while and you'd have a hard time telling me he was well coached.

Edgar Bennet I'm sorry to lose because I believe he was a pretty good position coach for when he was here. Van Pelt ... Good riddance.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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With the way things are shaking down, I wouldn't be shocked to see Ben McAdoo back in GB to be the new QB coach.
 
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While this post may have been made with a bit of facetiousness, I actually do believe there's some truth to it. That Hundley was terrible about stepping up in the pocket to buy time I put on the QB coach's head somewhat. 3 years in development and was the most inaccurate passer I've seen in Green Bay in a while and you'd have a hard time telling me he was well coached.

Edgar Bennet I'm sorry to lose because I believe he was a pretty good position coach for when he was here. Van Pelt ... Good riddance.

According to several reports the Packers didn't move on from Van Belt but he sought a different opportunity.
 

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