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D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Hawk?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by DakotaT, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Currently we have under contract -Collin Cole, Cullen Jenkins, Washington, KGB, Montgomery, Peterson, and Corey Williams; with Gravy and Kampy to be determined. With the exception of Washington, all these guys did a pretty adequate job in rotation last year. If Kampmann and Gravy are resigned, should Mario Williams be the pick?

    I believe our pass would improve if Montgomery and KGB played bookends on obvious passing downs. They are both a little light in the *** to play the run for 4 quarters. Kampmann should be rested more also, but you have to love his heart.

    My fear in drafting AJ Hawk is that we pass on the next great DE. Mario is being touted as the next Julius Peppers. If that is true, TT has a very difficult decision. I would not be upset if Hawk was a Packer next year, but I'm leaning towards Mario.
     
  2. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Great post Dakota. I have heard great things about both. I wouldn't want to pass on Julius Pappers but I'd hate to pass on another, dare I say it, Brian Urlacher. Tough choice.
     
  3. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    I do not think the Packers could go wrong with either pick....both will change positively the dynamics of our defensive unit.
     
  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Exactly, and that is why we are not on the scouting staff...LOL

    O-l seems to need more help then the D at this point...Would like to know their thinking on all this...

    As they say defense wins Super Bowls...
     
  5. rabidgopher04

    rabidgopher04 Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Trade Aaron Rodgers for the #2 pick and get both. :D
     
  6. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Mario Williams has all the talent in the world and has all the measurables scouts look for but played against somewhat inferior competition in college and has a reputation for taking plays off (remind you of anyone?). AJ Hawk has football player written all over him and will be a great player in the NFL but Williams has the potential to be one of those truly special perennial All Pro players who come around only once every few years. Hawk is the safer pick but Williams has the better upside. I have no idea what to do, but I would probably take a shot on Williams because guys who can truly rush the passer are rarer than great linebackers.
     
  7. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Rabid, I think we would be lucky to get a 2nd rounder for A-Rod. The thing about Hawk that is so evident is his abilities in pass coverage. Our nickel package has really missed that compliment to Barnett. I think Hawk is three down linebacker just like Barnett. It pains me to no end to watch Wiggins from the Vikings torch us every year because we have no one to match up with the pass catching tight end.

    Our D-line might be good enough as is, but I don't think any Packer fan is satisfied with the linebacker corp.
     
  8. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    I think the best bet is to re-sign Kampman and draft Hawk. We have a bigger need at linebacker right now and Kampman has shown that he can pass the rusher and play just about every down. From looking at scouting reports Hawk seems like he would be a good solution for the not covering tight ends problem.
     
  9. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    DakotaT, like we've talked about before, I favor AJ Hawk at this point. Call him the safer pick if you want, but he's got a huge upside and might be the LB the Packers need to shore up the defensive side of the ball and, at minimum, the LB corps.

    Mario Williams will probably be a great DE and the Packers wouldn't go wrong by selecting him...I look at Montgomery as someone who has untapped potential and showed some of it with the little opportunity he was given. Man, that guy was all over the place! Also, with a little weight, couldn't Poppinga revert back to his days at BYU lining up at end to rush the passer??? The guy has a motor that won't quit and could be tenacious in the backfield, just my opinion.
     
  10. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    ND wrote: Mario Williams will probably be a great DE and the Packers wouldn't go wrong by selecting him...I look at Montgomery as someone who has untapped potential and showed some of it with the little opportunity he was given. Man, that guy was all over the place! Also, with a little weight, couldn't Poppinga revert back to his days at BYU lining up at end to rush the passer??? The guy has a motor that won't quit and could be tenacious in the backfield, just my opinion.

    Another thing about Mario is his size, 6-6 295. That's a big DE in the system we are running (big DT, small DE's). I don't think Bates or Sanders would kick guys like Peppers or Reggie White off his team though.

    I like Pop and Montgomery as well, but Pop's durability concerns me. I agree with you ND & TOPackerFan that Hawk is the safer pick and will be a day 1 starter plus and upgrade, but I will struggle with this for another 3 months.
     
  11. hitking2456

    hitking2456 Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Maybe not trading Aaron Rodgers but maybe getting rid of say... KGB??? I bet you could get a good draft pick, and get Hawk and if not Williams with the 2nd of the 2 picks, maybe that Ngata guy from Oregon wouldn't be bad.
     
  12. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    We have a rather good and improving DL, but lack of depth at DE. At DE we have KGB, Kampy and Montgomery. We need a solid 4th DE, but not necessarily with our first pick.

    Still, I wouldn't say the bigger need is at LB. We have Barnett, Thomas, Poppinga, Manning, Diggs and Lenon. Diggs will probably be cut due to the cap. The other guys played rather well last season.

    Either one of Williams or Hawk will improve the respective positions, and so I think that TT should pick the best player. Personally I lean more toward Hawk because of his toughness. It's difficult to find a good LB who is good in pass coverage. Hawk will be a leader in the NFL and we need leaders on defense.
     
  13. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Our Dline is fine. It is better than others Dline. KGB is the only weakness, and he had career high in tackles.
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    I don't see how we could go wrong with either guy but personnel wise we are better off with KGB and Kamp then we are at linebacker so it would stand to reason that we would go with Hawk.

    Another consideration and this was brought up by JavonWalker084 would be to trade down to say #9 or #10 and take Ngata there and have the #37 and add the #41 or #42 pick by virtue of the trade down.
    If we did that we could consider a middle LB like Hodge from Iowa which would allow Barnett to move outside. Possibly weak-side to help KGB against the run.
    This would strengthen us against the run which needs to be addressed and improve our linebacker play as Barnett has the speed to cover on the outside and Hodge is considered to be real tough in the middle.

    The draft guru's feel this draft is deep with as many as 42 players having round 1 talent(last year the # was 22 and the year before only 19). So a trade down to 9 or 10 would give us 3 first round players quality wise. I can't remember the last time we were close to being in that position.

    Either way we will improve as Hawk wil be an All-Pro type player for many years and brings that hate to lose attitude any "D" can use.
     
  15. chibiabos

    chibiabos Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    :) Agree! Another thought is that in all likelihood; of the four teams drafting ahead of GB I think QB Young will drop down the draft board and that means one of those four teams will have a shot at the DE's. Personally I would also drop Kiwanuka down the board as an unfinished player. That leaves two great choices for GB. Either LB Hawks or S, Williams. IMHO either would be a great addition to the packers defense. I also have a strong dislike for drafting DL players that high in the draft, but I'm not the coach or GM either.
     
  16. kuston

    kuston Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    I think LB is the position of most need, but the draft is filled in LBs. We can get a very very good one in the 2nd round. I don't think we draft a DL in any round. The draft is very short on DBs. I like Michael Huff, DB Texas for the #5 pick. But if we don't resign Green, TT will take a RB with #5
     
  17. Heelntoe

    Heelntoe Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    While I'd be happy with either, I've heard many D-coordinators say that the road to a solid D starts with a d-line that gets consistent pressure. This allows 7 players to drop into coverage, and creates situations where blitzing can be used far more effectively. When you need to rush 5-6 players all the time to get pressure, it's easier for the O to prepare for constant blitzing and it's rarely a surprise.

    So as I've said a few other times, my preference would be Williams; he has pass-rush ability and can play the run adaquately. And it's much easier to teach run-support than pass-rushing. Throw in that he's a Jr. at 285lbs and has a chance to fill out some, and I think he's a better pick than Hawk. Of course, this is all complete speculation from a devoted arm-chair GM.
     
  18. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Chibiabos mentions Williams CB/S from Virginia Tech, and Kuston likes Michael Huff S from Texas. These are excellent players, but not at the 5th pick. It is very astute to think that TT trades down for one of these guys, because this is a linebacker and RB heavy draft and good ones will be found in rounds 2 & 3. Am I to assume that both of you think Roman is a weak link?

    I'm not sure what the status of Carroll's worth is on this board, but on a few other boards in which I lurk from time to time, you would think the kid was totally useless. I really think he will come around big time next year. He plays the second toughest position on the field, and lets face, he was thrown to wolves his first season. I think something clicked in his head when Joey Thomas was sent packing, because from that point on his play dramatically improved. He has million dollar speed but apparantly a two cent head. I think the two cent head thing can be worked on, but speed is either there or not.
     
  19. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    I agree DakotaT...I was one to be pretty harsh on Ahmad Carroll early on but I also noticed that he turned a little bit of a corner when Joey Thomas got the ax. I hope that Carroll turns it up even more next year to be a solid starter and we can focus on other areas of the defense with the fifth pick - Hawk or Williams in my opinion.
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    the only corner i want carroll turning, is the corner that leads out of Green Bay!
     
  21. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    You're right once again trom....let's replace him with Jason Horton...he played that coverage real well against Koren Robinson and Minnesota to lose the freakin' game for us.

    Until GB gets someone better, they need #28 on the field.
     
  22. chibiabos

    chibiabos Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Guess there are some who prefer to stay pat on the CB situation and perhaps that will work out as is. Either way we'll have to wait until the combine to see what some of these top choices have in their bags. At this point I still lean towards either A.J. Hawk or Jimmy Williams at first pick.
     
  23. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Lets look at it another way. This is the Jimmy Johnson/Jim Bates/Sanders defense.

    Lets say the front four(assuming FA re-signs) is KGB, Grady, Jenkins, Kampman.

    Linebackers: Paris Lenon, Nick Barnett, Robert Thomas.

    To me it seems clear we need another impact linebacker.

    If we do draft a D-lineman, it should be another hippo next to Grady to improve against the run.
     
  24. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    That what I've been saying for quite some time, but some not so smart people here took that as I was a fanboy of Carroll. HA far from it, chumps!!
     
  25. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

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    Re: D-line - Is Mario Williams a better option than A.J. Haw

    Also considering CB dont really hit thier stride until there fourth and 5th year Carroll can improve
     

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