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Cut a vet 2019 Edition

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by RicFlairoftheNFL, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. RicFlairoftheNFL

    RicFlairoftheNFL Cheesehead

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    Simple, cut at least 1 vet on O, D and ST

    Offense I can see possibly 3 guys being cut.

    1.) Bryan Bulaga: 3 knee injuries and now a back problem where he's taking every other day off. If Billy Taylor or Light can play RT I can't see him being around.

    2.) Geronimo Allison: He's #3 right now it seems behind Adams and MVS, if he drops behind EQ or Kumerow with the injury issue as well as the prior drug arrest I can't see him being kept around unless he's somehow gotten by on veteran minimum.

    3.) Boyle: I'll be honest I was surprised that I'm mentioning this guy. Up until tonight I thought he had #3 locked down. Then he goes out and has his worst outing so far. Wouldn't surprise me either way how this goes.

    Defense I am only looking at 1 person getting cut.

    Tramon Williams: Yes he's fast, but he's 36 if the only reason to keep him is he's the vet with the most experience, that's not much of a reason. I didn't see him on the field at all tonight.

    Special Teams, looking at 1 guy, and he's needed to go for a while.

    Trevor Davis: Leg injuries at least 2 of the last 3 camps. When given the opportunity to return he's had issues with handling the ball. Sheppard right now is looking better...do we really want or need him right now?

    Interested in what others think on this.
     
  2. Sanguine camper

    Sanguine camper Cheesehead

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    O - Justin McCray. Jenkins is a nuch better athlete.
    D- Tyler Lancaster - He has no pass rush and has been getting whipped in the running game. This one should be an easy call
    ST -Trevor Davis. - He can't stay healthy. He needs to sit in the tub somewhere else.
     
  3. Poppa San

    Poppa San Levelheaded Staff Member Moderator

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    Offense: everyone's whipping boy Jason Spriggs is already gone so I'll go slide down the line and go with Hankey Pankey.
    Not so ST: Mason can be replaced cheaper.
    Defense: James Looney. Who's that? Exactly.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I highly doubt there's any way either Bulaga or Allison gets released. It seems Shepherd might be able to challenge Davis for a roster spot though.

    I'm absolutely convinced Lancaster will end up making the team.
     
  5. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Offense: Mercedes Lewis - didn't do much last season and I think that Tonyan and Sternberger should get the reps

    Defense: Josh Jones - he wants out and will probably get it. He's still not showing me anything

    Special Teams: Sorry Pappa, but they aren't cutting Crosby. Unless someone thinks that they will cut the long snapper, then the only real option here is Trevor Davis. I'd be fine giving Sheppard more touches. We've already seen that he provides more than Davis as a WR, so I'd take a slight step back on ST to give a rookie the opportunity.
     
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  6. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    What the hell would you cut one of the better RT's in the NFL?
     
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  7. Do7

    Do7 Cheesehead

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    Aside from the fact that he's injury prone and up there in age? Besides it's not like The Packers don't have a history of doing stuff like that before with Josh Sitton and TJ Lang.
     
  8. swhitset

    swhitset Cheesehead

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    Lang was not cut he was a free agent and signed with the Lions.
     
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  9. Do7

    Do7 Cheesehead

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    Huh. I thought he was cut. Thanks for the clarification! Btw do you see Bulaga getting cut?
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers currently don't have a reliable backup for Bulaga on the roster. Therefore the team will keep him for this season.
     
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  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Right. If they were going to move on it would have happened quite a while ago.
     
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Offense
    WR EQ - he has earned a roster spot, but so have 7 others. Adams, Allison, Kumerow, MVS, Davis, Lazard, and Shepard are all ahead of EQ. Try to stash him on the PS, but he could be cut.

    OG Lane taylor. Played poorly last year and not cut out for new blocking scheme. Hate to loose his experience, but Jenkins should start.

    TE Graham - just to be different. Has yet to show he is worth what they are paying him. Im excited for Tonyan and the rookie. Cant carry too many.

    Defense
    Tough to pick one because we already had a lot of turnover. Im going to go with

    Looney. Not a surprise necessarilly, but i hate to loose him. Extremely athletic and playing better. Can still develop.


    ST
    Ficken. Never really stood much of a chance.


    Listed by others who are nuts:
    Bulaga. Not as good as some fans think, but still better than anyone else in roster.

    Allison? #3?!? He is probably #2. MVS will be cut before him. MVS has dropped on the depth chart. Not catching onto the new playbook - or getting on same page with AR anyhow.

    Lancaster? As a raw rookie he was good. He looks even better so far. He has a roster spot for sure.
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If Graham was going to be cut it would have happened before they paid him that $5 mil roster bonus back in March. With that cost now sunk (along with his signing bonus and the $250,000 2019 workout bonus), we have the following math:

    Keep: $3.45 mil salary + $300,000 per game bonus = $3.75 mil cap cost for 2019 not already sunk

    Cut: Two years of remaining prorated signing bonus = $7.3 mil cap cost not already sunk if cut.

    Even if you kept him for this season, cut him after, and ate the last year of his signing bonus proration as dead cap next year, his cost for this season that is not already sunk becomes $7.4 mil.

    Once you discount all the the cap water already under the bridge, you're now getting Graham nearly for free for this season compared to cutting him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  14. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    You convinced me to change my opinion using facts and a sound argument.

    Is that freaking weird or what? Hope this doesnt mean the internet is broken or something.
     
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  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That is a refreshing take, Mr. Mafia. The internets are broken, but for unrelated reasons. ;)
     
  16. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I can't play by these rules, I don't consider people like Davis to be a vet. they've played too little, though I realize technically even MVS is a "vet"

    Outside of M. Lewis and maybe Taylor (both offense) I can't think of any that qualify in my little mind and would be a surprise to be cut.

    If King was available and healthy and reliable I could say maybe Williams depending on cap situation I have not looked into. The one I thought would be traded potentially has been cut already. I'm not sure there are any vets on Defense I think would fit the bill for me.

    Special teams? I guess Davis, because crosby is going nowhere with what we have in camp now, Scott is going nowhere. They aren't looking for a new LS. Who else is there? And Davis has been a bubble player every year.
     
  17. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

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    Thank you Poppa. I was hoping someone would post something that allowed me to do this again

    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/fd5457e8-1ad8-4d30-8f82-d9878efcd189
     
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  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I have a hard time seeing them cutting Taylor even if he loses his starting job to Jenkins. Taylor could be the first guy off the bench with an injury at any of the 5 OL position:

    (1) LG if Jenkins is injured.
    (2) If Jenkins is the backup C, which is a fair bet, then Taylor would plug in at LG with a Linsley injury.
    (3) Remember Taylor taking over for the injured Bakhtiari at LT in 2017? Have you seen anybody in this preseason who could do better? I haven't.
    (4) With an injury to Turner he could plug into RG, or LG with Jenkins flipping to the right side.
    (5) If Bulaga is injured, Turner might be the next guy up at RT. Then see (4) above, though in this case I would expect Taylor at RG so as not to mess with 3 positions in the line shuffle.

    Taylor may keep his job if Jenkins doesn't sharpen up his run blocking in fairly short order in which case Jenkins might be that first guy off the bench at all 5 positions as noted above.

    We have a matter of sunk cost as with Graham but on a smaller scale. Taylor has already been paid $1 mil in roster and workout bonuses for this season and his signing bonus proration for 2019 and 2020 is an additional larger sunk cost. If you keep him this season his cap cost going forward after discounting sunk costs is $3.35 mil in salary and per game bonuses. That figure assumes he'd make the game day roster every week, less if he misses time with an injury. If you cut him now you take a 2019 dead cap charge for his 2019 and 2020 signing bonus proration totaling $2.75 mil.

    In short, cutting him is a net $600,000 gain in cap space for 2019. If he were cut after the season, you take the $1.375 mil dead cap for the prorated signing bonus allocated to 2020. In short, net net, the cost to keep Taylor going forward is $600,000 now and about $2 mil all-in if he's released after the season. That's not a lot for even a backup OL who can be serviceable at multiple positions.

    It's probably worth noting this a 3 year starter with chemistry with the guys on either side of him. Other than McCray with 13 starts and Spriggs with 9 starts, both of whom are further out on the bubble than Taylor, you get down to Patrick with 6 starts and then, I believe, zippo. Serviceable experience in what amounts to cheap backup is nothing to sneeze at.

    While we may not love Taylor, and certainly hope Jenkins can take his job, there's nothing to dislike here given the little you save in sending him packing.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers would save $3.65 million of cap space by releasing Williams before the start of the season.

    Two things. The Packers would be able to split Taylor's dead cap hit over the next two seasons because of the possibility of designating him as a post June 1 cut.

    Spriggs has been reverted to the team's IR list after being waived injured resulting in the team not being able to activate him in 2019. They will most likely work out an injury settlement to release him.
     
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  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    There was point where that might have mattered. The Packers are sitting on nearly $15 mil in cap space after Daniels' release with little evidence they intend to spend much of it. Whether you split the dead cap over two years or not is not material unless you're going to trade for Antonio Brown. Mayock did say come in or get out. ;) Even if Clark is extended before the year is out, the playbook has been to backload with big signing bonuses. That won't suck up close to the $11 mil left after necessary subtractions and PUP/IR reserve. That extension might not come until after this season anyway.

    Taylor is a cheap, serviceable backup assuming he isn't still a starter once you factor in sunk costs. There's no good reason to cut him unless that additional cap is needed. If and when it is, then we'll see.
    I completely forgot about Spriggs' situation. He's gone, no doubt, sooner or later. He could balk at the injury settlement, dragging it out in arbitration or instead hanging around to rehab with Packer resources, all the while sitting on IR.

    I think I forgot about that because I forgot about him in general. He was pretty far out on the bubble to start with after 3 years and still getting whupped by any edge rusher who was any d*mn good. Injury or not, he was a guy offering a pretty low bar for being outcompeted for a roster spot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    This team can't even get through training camp without injury and depth issues. And even if by chance King can go week 1, he can't be counted on to stay that way. Williams may be past his prime, but he's at least serviceable as a backup at perimeter corner, slot corner and free safety. That's a valuable piece on a 45 man game day roster.

    It might be worth pointing out that he just might be the starting slot corner even if everybody is ready to go week 1. Jackson's lack of avilability while needing to step up coming into this camp doesn't help his case.

    It is easy to ignore veteran depth until it is needed. I'm the guy who thinks this team is at least another year away. I should be the guy who advocates slashing and burning, and I was when it came to Daniels or some of these other guys before they got their roster bonuses. But you've gotta draw the line somewhere to cover bases on the way back to at least respectability.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2019
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  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I wasn't advocating for the Packers to release Taylor but just mentioning that they could split the dead cap resulting in the move over the next two seasons.

    Once again, the post was solely meant to be informative as well. I'm not suggesting that releasing Tramon would be a smart move.
     
  23. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I am going to retract my previous statement. I don't think Taylor is going to be cut in light of this "new" information that I am too lazy to look up on my own :)
     
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  24. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I'm not interested in cutting Williams either, it was just a scenario, one that isn't reality in GB of King being healthy and with some confidence he'd stay that way, it would be a possibility. Neither of the criteria are true though and even with 100% health today and 3 INT's in 15 snaps tonight, I'd still not count on King to stay healthy. Probably not ever again.
     
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  25. GleefulGary

    GleefulGary Cheesehead

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    And for what purpose would they cut Bulaga? What is the pro to this decision?
     

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