Congrats to John Schneider

[NOMOFO]

Let's also be honest that their draft success is a lot of luck too. You can call him shrewd all you want. But to hit on so many mid- and late-round picks, plus undrafted guys, in such a short time frame is lucky. Credit to him for taking the right guy, but to hit at this rate is not something you can bank on and is lucky.

I don't know if I would go that far to call it lucky, but I do think damn near any secondary would look good behind a defensive line that's putting tons of pressure on the QB. I think almost any QB looks good if you keep giving him the ball and scoring points on defense. Like I said, everything lined up for Seattle this year. It seldom happens twice in a row. I would not swap the Packers roster for theirs right now.

 

[AmishMafia]

John Schnieder is not a good GM.

First, he gets to Seattle and he runs the great Matt Hasselbeck out of town.
Second: He is such and ego maniac, he gets rid of good players, like Rocky Bernard, TJ Houshoumammma, and Bobby Engram, just because they weren't 'his' guys.
Third: He gets no credit for picking Wilson. Of course he picked him - that's his job to pick players, and why not pick a great QB? Again, IT'S HIS JOB!
Fourth: He got lucky with the Chancellor, Sherman and Thomas picks. Those players fell right into his lap
Fifth: His pick of Chris Harper was a huge waste. He got cut his rookie year! What a waste of a 4th round draft pick.
Sixth: Trading for oft injured Percy Harvin? ARe you kidding? He was out most of the season!

WHY does John Schnieder get a FREE PASS? Just because he won a SB once? Time to stop living in the past and wake up. Schnieder is okay. He has some hits, but he has plenty of misses. One needs only to look at their 4th string OT to see that they just don't have any depth, to realize Schnieder's weakness as an evaluator of talent.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

I don't know if I would go that far to call it lucky, but I do think damn near any secondary would look good behind a defensive line that's putting tons of pressure on the QB. I think almost any QB looks good if you keep giving him the ball and scoring points on defense. Like I said, everything lined up for Seattle this year. It seldom happens twice in a row. I would not swap the Packers roster for theirs right now.

Getting the best CB in the league in the 5th round, an enforcer S in the 5th round, perhaps the most valuable contract in the league in Wilson in the 3rd, and the SB MVP with the 242nd pick is lucky. I mean, every team passed over these guys more than once. It could be coaching too. But, when you can land such great/elite talent when the draft is in crapshoot mode, you're getting very lucky.

Interestingly enough, this year's draft was horrendous from them:

262Christine MichaelRBTexas A&M
387Jordan HillDTPenn State
4123Chris HarperWRKansas State
5137Jesse WilliamsDTAlabama
5138Tharold SimonCBLSU
5158Luke WillsonTERice
6194Spencer WareRBLSU
7220Ryan SeymourOGVanderbilt
7231Ty PowellLBHarding
7241Jared SmithDTNew Hampshire
7242Michael BowieOTNortheastern State (Okla.)

 

[easyk83]

Let's also be honest that their draft success is a lot of luck too. You can call him shrewd all you want. But to hit on so many mid- and late-round picks, plus undrafted guys, in such a short time frame is lucky. Credit to him for taking the right guy, but to hit at this rate is not something you can bank on and is lucky.

If Kam Chancellor Eric Berry and Richard Sherman were on the Packers would they be stars or just injury prone players on IR all the time?

 

[NOMOFO]

If Kam Chancellor Eric Berry and Richard Sherman were on the Packers would they be stars or just injury prone players on IR all the time?

I just think there is an immediate correlation between the Packers secondary looking less than solid and their complete lack of pass rush. There is no question in my mind that the Seahags secondary would look very average if they were on the Packers.

 

[Beebe82]

You're completely wrong about Earl Thomas looking average. He's as good as Collins was and probably better. Did Collins look "average" behind the lack of pass rush our defense provided while he was here? No he looked like an All-Pro, because he was one. Eric Berry would probably be in the same boat. Would Chancellor get exposed in coverage, yes, could he still remember how to tackle like a beast? I hope so. Sherman, I honestly can't say if he is a true "shut down" corner like Sanders, the Woodsons, Revis and Darrell Green, but Sherman's body of work so far shows that he's on the right path (players outside of the late 80s to 90s generation played a different brand of defensive football that we will never see again).

I'm not discounting your point that pass rush helps the secondary, but a good secondary can cover up for a poor pass rush just like a good pass rush can cover up for a poor secondary.

 

[NOMOFO]

You're completely wrong about Earl Thomas looking average. He's as good as Collins was and probably better. Did Collins look "average" behind the lack of pass rush our defense provided while he was here? No he looked like an All-Pro, because he was one. Eric Berry would probably be in the same boat. Would Chancellor get exposed in coverage, yes, could he still remember how to tackle like a beast? I hope so. Sherman, I honestly can't say if he is a true "shut down" corner like Sanders, the Woodsons, Revis and Darrell Green, but Sherman's body of work so far shows that he's on the right path (players outside of the late 80s to 90s generation played a different brand of defensive football that we will never see again).

I'm not discounting your point that pass rush helps the secondary, but a good secondary can cover up for a poor pass rush just like a good pass rush can cover up for a poor secondary.

Did you just compare our pass rush back then to this years? Really? I've been watching football a long long time and I don't know that I have ever witnessed such pathetic pass rushing as the way this team looked for much of the year.

 

[Beebe82]

Not a direct comparison, but what did everyone want in the 2011 draft? Another pass rusher. I agree with you, this years pass rush was anything but acceptable, the Packer's pass rush in 2008, 2009 and 2011 wasn't exactly all world either, 2010 was an anomaly, but still something the defense is capable of. I can't compare how Nick Collins would have done in 2013 because he didn't play in 2013, but I can compare him to Earl Thomas and both are /were All-Pro players. Collins was still good if not great without a pass rush (2007, 2008, 2009, 2011[2 games]). Which goes back to my point, a secondary can cover up for the faults of a pass rush just like a pass rush can cover up for the faults of a secondary, in the 2014 Packers case, I think they need to fix both.

 

[FrankRizzo]

This has be rehashed over about 30 times. Who is becoming a free agent this year tells a fraction of the story...

Correct.
Because besides the guys lost this off-season from free agency, there's also the draft.
Those are, by and large (FA & Drafting) 99% of the way rosters are assembled in today's NFL.

Only five of the Seahawks starters in the Super Bowl will be free agents this offseason, and aside from Michael Bennett none is a huge contributor.

In comparison, seven of the Packers starters in the playoff game vs. the Niners will be free agents and other than the Seahawks we have huge holes on defense to fill.

Correct.
We are in more precarious cap/expired contract situation than they are.
But in 3 years......

 

[Forget Favre]

The Packers last losing season was in 2008, what are you talking about???

Excuse me.
I meant if we don't make it to another SB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Like I said, everything lined up for Seattle this year. It seldom happens twice in a row. I would not swap the Packers roster for theirs right now.

The Seahawks will only lose one impact player grom this year's Super Bowl team in Michael Bennett. They will release Sidney Rice, who has been a major disappointment, which will save them $7,3 million in cap space, giving them approximately $10 million in cap space.

If the Packers either franchise tag or re-sign Shields they'll have approximately $17-20 million in cap space, but still major holes to fill at DL, ILB and safety.

Right now, I'll take the Seahawks roster in a heartbeat.

 

[brandon2348]

congrats to john schnieder? are you serious. He won a super bowl and there "capped out" They cant even sign there kicker next year. He is not a genius. Dude got lucky and really if you look at there contracts and the value of there players "there cooked'. This is Tampa Bay all over again but Wilson is better then Dilfer. Only difference.

 

[brandon2348]

Its this simple. There are what? 350 plus college programs? 32 nfl teams? The math is simple. Lots of kids wanting to play in the "NFL" maybe we need some better scouts finding the right guys. I would do it for free TED

 

[Packerlifer]

This has be rehashed over about 30 times. Who is becoming a free agent this year tells a fraction of the story. I'm sure you saw all of those threads on that so there's no reason to go over all of that gain.

I'll say this again, I can't wait to get all of these great arm chair predictions in writing this season so we can track how insane most are. I won't be shocked if Seattle fails to make the playoffs.

It's nauseating how short sighted some fans are. Whatever the "new" scheme is is the rage and everyone needs to change to it now....whoever wins the Super Bowl, they have the best coach, GM and roster management and everyone needs to follow them... and on and on and on...

The history can't be ignored. There's been no repeat Super Bowl winner in the NFL for ten years and only 3 in the last 25. The reasons may be many but that's the way a league that is arranged for parity and season to season playoff turnover works.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Getting the best CB in the league in the 5th round, an enforcer S in the 5th round, perhaps the most valuable contract in the league in Wilson in the 3rd, and the SB MVP with the 242nd pick is lucky. I mean, every team passed over these guys more than once. It could be coaching too. But, when you can land such great/elite talent when the draft is in crapshoot mode, you're getting very lucky.

Interestingly enough, this year's draft was horrendous from them:

262Christine MichaelRBTexas A&M
387Jordan HillDTPenn State
4123Chris HarperWRKansas State
5137Jesse WilliamsDTAlabama
5138Tharold SimonCBLSU
5158Luke WillsonTERice
6194Spencer WareRBLSU
7220Ryan SeymourOGVanderbilt
7231Ty PowellLBHarding
7241Jared SmithDTNew Hampshire
7242Michael BowieOTNortheastern State (Okla.)

If that's lucky, and hitting on 1st round picks Earl Thomas and Russell Okung are lucky, then what about Ted's draft picks or what about undrafted Sam Shields?
There's always some luck to drafting. But most of it is proper scouting and evaluation.

That's why IMO free agency is much safer.
These guys have already played in the NFL. All college players, they haven't and it's much harder to guess what they'll do, be at that next level.

The Seahawks draft this year: Christine Michael is going to be good.... when they need him. Jesse Williams is a good DT, and Luke Wilson I think played a lot of them this year.
They didn't need Jordan Hill or Jesse Williams this year as rookies, because........ wait for it..... they added veterans Avril and Bennett via free agency last year.
This is what Dom Capers, **** LeBeau have always aspired: Playing veterans while the rookies learn from the side.

 

[BorderRivals.com]

If that's lucky, and hitting on 1st round picks Earl Thomas and Russell Okung are lucky, then what about Ted's draft picks or what about undrafted Sam Shields?
There's always some luck to drafting. But most of it is proper scouting and evaluation.

I agree that certainly good scouting and evaluation is an important part. But at the same time, getting those kind of players in those late rounds is luck no matter how good you scouted or evaluated them. Because it means that you are passing on them throughout the draft to that point and hoping that other teams have them evaluated similarly or worse so that they will be there when you are up. Schneider loved Wilson and gambled he'd still be there in the third. It worked out great for him. But, it easily could have backfired if a team desperate for a QB jumped them right before their selection if they had similarly evaluated him. So, it goes hand-in-hand really. Good scouting/evaluation, but also luck that it all worked out so damn well too.

 

[NOMOFO]

The Seahawks will only lose one impact player grom this year's Super Bowl team in Michael Bennett. They will release Sidney Rice, who has been a major disappointment, which will save them $7,3 million in cap space, giving them approximately $10 million in cap space.

If the Packers either franchise tag or re-sign Shields they'll have approximately $17-20 million in cap space, but still major holes to fill at DL, ILB and safety.

Right now, I'll take the Seahawks roster in a heartbeat.

Thanks for the material. We're saving all of it. CAN NOT WAIT until next year at this time. Glad you find it amusing. I'll guarantee there's not a GM in the NFL that wouldn't take the Packers roster over the Seahags right now. ...because unlike arm chair fans like you, NFL GMs know it's about long term planning.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Thanks for the material. We're saving all of it. CAN NOT WAIT until next year at this time. Glad you find it amusing. I'll guarantee there's not a GM in the NFL that wouldn't take the Packers roster over the Seahags right now. ...because unlike arm chair fans like you, NFL GMs know it's about long term planning.

If you really think that any GM would like to have the current Packers defense (taking all of the free agents into account) you seriously need a reality check.

 

[TJV]

Because it means that you are passing on them throughout the draft to that point and hoping that other teams have them evaluated similarly or worse so that they will be there when you are up.

To expand on that point, there's no way a GM would take that gamble if he had correctly evaluated Sherman, for example, as a great CB. For example, look at the player Seattle picked before Sherman. He's currently a Detroit Lion after being waived by the Seahawks. Scouting and player evaluation is extremely important but projecting how college players will respond to the challenge of the NFL is a crapshoot. Kudos to Schneider for putting together that roster, but he isn't clairvoyant.

 

[AmishMafia]

If you really think that any GM would like to have the current Packers defense (taking all of the free agents into account) you seriously need a reality check.

He said the Packers roster, not just the defense. In my opinion, the Packers have the most talented offense in the NFL. I think every team would prefer the Packer Offense to theirs.

 

[AmishMafia]

To expand on that point, there's no way a GM would take that gamble if he had correctly evaluated Sherman, for example, as a great CB. For example, look at the player Seattle picked before Sherman. He's currently a Detroit Lion after being waived by the Seahawks. Scouting and player evaluation is extremely important but projecting how college players will respond to the challenge of the NFL is a crapshoot. Kudos to Schneider for putting together that roster, but he isn't clairvoyant.

You gentlemen are talking like Sherman was an amazing talent in college. He was very good, not great. Why can't it be that the Seahawks drafted a good player, who worked his butt off, learned better how to play the postion, and became a much better player? This, in my opinion, is what happened with Sherman.

You can look at a player and realize the tools are there, but what you don't know is if he is going to work hard enough to put those tools to full effectiveness. Every season two dozen WRs come into the NFL who have more raw talent than Jerry Rice. Yet Jerry Rice worked ceaselessly to be better and it showed. Thats the only difference between him and hundreds of other players. Well, that and playing with 2 HOF QBs helped.

 

[Beebe82]

He said the Packers roster, not just the defense. In my opinion, the Packers have the most talented offense in the NFL. I think every team would prefer the Packer Offense to theirs.

Good point here, I think most GM's, even the Browns, would pass up the Packer's defensive "talent" but would trade their entire roster for a shot with Lacy, Rodgers, Cobb and Nelson. Probably thinking besides CMIII and Shields that they could do a better job of finding defensive talent.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

He said the Packers roster, not just the defense. In my opinion, the Packers have the most talented offense in the NFL. I think every team would prefer the Packer Offense to theirs.

I agree that the Packers offense is one of the best in the entire league. Our defense on the other hand is one of the worst in the NFL. Pretty sure that´s not a Super Bowl winning formula.

 

[rodell330]

Schneider could return when Ted retires. I don't think he has final say with Seattle, so I think he would be tempted for full powers somewhere else.

Can we trade TT and a third round pick for him? haha

 

[NOMOFO]

I said roster. I didn't say just defense. I'm talking entire team. There's zero doubt in my mind that every GM in the NFL would swap the Packers over Seattle.

You know what this Seattle team reminds me of? The Bears teams of years past when they had great defenses and little offense. All of a sudden they have one or two key guys go down on defense, and they're the Jacksonville Jaguars. Like I said, the stars aligned for that team this year.