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Congrats to John Schneider

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    [​IMG]

    Not to beat a dead horse here, but let us be real here.

    Talked to some folks on twitter tonight about the work Seattle GM John Schneider did this off-season, and how he obviously didn't learn it from Thompson.

    Seattle, already better than us last year at the end, especially on defense, they added 2 proven good guys on their DL to boost their pass-rush (remember that pass rush already had 7 sacks against us in the first half), in Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett.
    Both of these guys paid off big time, and they weren't expensive.

    Ted Thompson has not signed a real FA since 2006.

    Seattle also traded their late 1st round pick last April for Percy Harvin, a superstud playmaking weapon. Now that didn't payoff all year as he was hurt, but he was a clear difference-maker in this Super Bowl.

    He did more than our first round pick did this year.
    He did more than our 2012 first round pick did his rookie year.
    He did more than our 2011 first round pick did.

    Where did Schneider learn from, to be aggressive and think outside the box?
    Not Ted Thompson, but Ron Wolf.

    If Thompson does not bring in a proven veteran at safety this off-season, I am going to be sick.

    You HAVE to improve this defense and it CAN be done in one off-season.
    But not if ONLY attempted to do so thru the damn draft.

    Not only does he utilize free agency and the trade option, he also DRAFTS.
    Thompson-lovers think he's the only GM who drafts, or drafts well.
    How much help did TT's 1st round pick D Jones give this year? Much less than Avril, and Bennett? Yep.
    How about help last year from TT's 1st round pick N Perry? Little.
    2011 Sherrod? Nothing.

    Schneider got Russell Wilson NOT in the first round.
    He drafted both Richard Sherman and Kam Chancellor, two Pro Bowl CBs, in the 5th round.

    He traded for Marshawn Lynch.
    He signed Matt Flynn, but drafted Wilson to cover that.

    Lynch, Harvin, Avril, Bennett,
    Wilson late, Sherman late, Chancellor late.

    One draft alone, he got Earl Thomas and Russell Okung.
    So he drafts well, but adds proven pieces via the other options.

    Kudos to John Schneider, Wisconsin-native.
    Can we please trade Ted for John?
     
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  2. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I give him all the respect in the world and I would give him a ton of money to come back and be GM.
     
  3. raj34

    raj34 Cheesehead

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    Schneider could return when Ted retires. I don't think he has final say with Seattle, so I think he would be tempted for full powers somewhere else.
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    can someone explain to me what a real free agent is?

    also, pointing to the SB champ and complaining why cant your GM be like that seems a bit idk.. flawed... Lets see how this plays out. I seem to remember people doing the same last year. Now you look at Balt and they look like a mess.

    I imagine it looks better when one teams 44th highest paid player is their starting QB and the other QB is the highest paid player in the NFL.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
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  5. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I've been a fan of Seattle since the Fail Mary game, not because of the final play, but because of how both teams played that day. Seattle brought an intensity to that game that GB matched, and it was fun football to watch (the ending aside). Say what you want about Pete Carroll but since he's been with Seattle, he and Schneider have assembled a great team that plays really well and with lots of energy. I wish that the Packers played that way all of the time. It's what it takes to win the SB.

    Congrats to those guys.
     
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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's an interesting situation. At the time of Carroll's hiring, the Seahawk's CEO Leiweke stated that Carroll had the tie breaking vote. At the same time, the cap and contract specialist (the position Russ Ball holds with the Packers) reported to Schneider:

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/2010/01/20/leiweke-carroll-has-power-in-tie-breakers/

    I see where Leiweke is no longer CEO, and nobody holds that title in Seattle at the moment. Whether tie breaking is written into Carroll's contract or whether it was a handshake deal with Leiweke and Schneider is not clear. Further, Carroll was hired first, so Schneider was not involved in picking "his" head coach. Currently, both Carroll and Schneider hold Executive VP titles.

    In any event, you'd have to think bringing in Flynn was heavily influenced by Schneider. At the same time, drafting Wilson also appeared to be Schneider's call:

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...s-john-schneider-for-drafting-russell-wilson/

    On the other hand, the decision to bench Flynn in favor of Wilson was Carroll's decision from all accounts, as one would expect.

    In the end it appears to be a collaborative process. As Schneider noted in 2010:

    “I’ve been blessed to work in different structures where there was a president, for instance, or a head coach who had the final say. And a general manager structure as well. Not once have I been in a situation where it was a personnel guy trying to jam a player down a coach’s throat. My personal opinion is a personnel guy that is going to try to do that is basically killing himself. We’re here to build a team that is structured around Coach Carroll and his philosophies for every position and what we’re going to be doing on offense and defense."

    What Schneider said there makes eminent sense; he appears to be a man with his ego in proper check. I'm not sure having the final say on "coin flips" would necessarily appeal to him as a lure back to Green Bay when the time comes. The attraction of going "home" and a basketful of money might influence such a decision, but I couldn't say.
     
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  7. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    frank had a similar post prepared on Denver's GM if they would have won. He's no doubt preparing similar posts for all 31 teams next year... :rolleyes:
     
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  8. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Do you two guys exchange Christmas cards and gifts ??.....:laugh:
     
  9. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    I'll give credit to Schneider because he's done a heck of a job with that team. But, let's remember, he's paying their starting QB $500K this year and next. It helps immensely to have the most important position in the game playing for nothing. It allows him to be bold. And, to his credit, he's been bold and struck gold. But, once Wilson, Sherman, etc. have to get paid - like we've had to with Rodgers and Clay (and are facing with Jordy, Cobb, etc.) - then we'll see how great of a GM he is.
     
  10. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Yep... he deserves credit for putting together a very nice roster and with luck they stayed amazingly healthy and they won it all. Congrats. GM of the century.... until next year when the 2015 Super Bowl winner takes home the trophy. Then THAT GM gets the award and Schneider won't even be talked about.
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    He was bold in signing Harvin, paying him about what Rodgers made in 2011 and 2012. Yet they built a smothering defense and made it to the Super Bowl without having gotten anything out of the Harvin investment.

    That Seattle's team building since Schneider arrived there has been superior to TT's shouldn't be in dispute.
     
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  12. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Correct.

    I find it funny to see people try hard to stick up for TT now, when after Rodgers was out and we were horrible, everyone was questioning the supposed-talent on this roster.

    Don't you think Seattle would have still won that game last night easily no matter who they had at QB?

    Their defense alone was great enough to win that game easily, with Tarvaris Jackson or Matt Flynn. Even Jim Zorn or Dave Krieg.

    That defense was put together with free agents like Avril and Bennett, bold 1st round picks like Bruce Irvin (whom you all know I wanted last draft), and a pair of 5th round picks in Sherman and Kam Chancellor. And hitting on their safety in Pro Bowler Earl Thomas.

    We gave Morgan Burnett more $ last year than they are paying Thomas! That's after seeing Burnett for 4 seasons.
    Who's fault is that? Mother Nature?

    Look, I admit Schneider's drafting has been about a 38-10 blowout winner since he took over in Seattle.
    But he also has added key guys via free agency and trading.
     
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  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Not that TT has to go. But he should stop being so damn stubborn and think outside the draft.
    And he was dragging his feet to bring in a competent back up to Rodgers because he didn't want to think about Rodgers getting hurt.
    Now I like Ted and appreciate all he's done for the Packers but if we keep on having losing season after losing season and he stays stuck in only team building through the draft then maybe it would be time to find another GM.
     
  14. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Bear in mind that TT was a Brett Favre interception away from possibly having two Super Bowl winning teams on his resume.

    As for John Schneider certainly he's been more effective, how much of this is superior drafting and how much is superior training/coaching/player evaluation(players already drafted)/medical treatment. How is it that TTs guys are constantly injured while Schneider's have been remarkably healthy, is that superior evaluation or does Seattle do a better job keeping their guys healthy? To elaborate, its much easier to draft and develop when your drafted players are actually able to gain experience through PT.
     
  15. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    You may disagree with Teddy's approach but suggesting that he isn't aggressive or a risk taker is unfounded. Was the guy a wimp when he drafted Aaron Rodgers back when everyone knew we needed more talent around Favre? How about when he cut Brett loose and went with Aaron Rodgers, and had the entire league questioning his sanity? How about when he traded half of his draft to move back into the first round to grab a guy who barely played in College? How about the numerous times in which he went into the season trusting a young/inexperienced played to perform?
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't make the playoffs next season.
     
  17. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    The Packers last losing season was in 2008, what are you talking about???
     
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  18. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    Schneider & Co. did similar to Ron Wolf in 1996. They saw the window of opportunity and jumped thru it with some big moves to an already good team and it paid off with a Lombardi Trophy. But now they will have 18 players coming into free agency this offseason and only $8.7 million in cap space to work with. And they have several other major players whose contracts will be up in another year who will have to be dealt with .

    Seahawk fans should relish this. Like the last ten Super Bowl winners it'll be a one year deal. But give credit to their organization for seizing the opportunity. Is it better to win a Super Bowl or have a team that makes the playoffs year after year and always gets eliminated in the first or second round?
     
  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Only five of the Seahawks starters in the Super Bowl will be free agents this offseason, and aside from Michael Bennett none is a huge contributor.

    In comparison, seven of the Packers starters in the playoff game vs. the Niners will be free agents and other than the Seahawks we have huge holes on defense to fill.
     
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  20. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    This has be rehashed over about 30 times. Who is becoming a free agent this year tells a fraction of the story. I'm sure you saw all of those threads on that so there's no reason to go over all of that gain.

    I'll say this again, I can't wait to get all of these great arm chair predictions in writing this season so we can track how insane most are. I won't be shocked if Seattle fails to make the playoffs.

    It's nauseating how short sighted some fans are. Whatever the "new" scheme is is the rage and everyone needs to change to it now....whoever wins the Super Bowl, they have the best coach, GM and roster management and everyone needs to follow them... and on and on and on...
     
  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    It is ridiculous to think the Seahawks won´t make the playoffs because they´ll lose some free agents, with Michael Bennett being the only impact player. They will be able to replace some of them by drafting as well, something they have done way better than the Packers since Schneider took over.

    BTW I´m not suggesting the Packers should copy the Seahawks system, cause that won´t be possible with the contracts of Rodgers and Matthews. But drafting more impact players and signing some mid-priced free agents would help the Packers as well.
     
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  22. Beebe82

    Beebe82 Cheesehead

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    This is something that gets thrown around all the time on the PC forums (good riddance) as an excuse for the Packers' mediocre talent acquisition the last 2 drafts and why Green Bay should stay the course with draft and develop only. Quite frankly, every team has the same exact advantage. We're paying Sherrod, Perry, Jones, Lacy, Cobb and Hayward nothing and for 2 of them we're getting excellent production, from 3 we're not and Hayward could be great. Will the Seahawks have to pay Wilson top dollar in the future? Yes, but it won't matter if they hit on draft picks that can play on the cheap for 3 to 4 seasons at other key positions like linebacker, cornerback, receiver, runningback, etc. I understand QBs make more than other positions, but if talent acquisition is very good or great a team is able to mitigate those lost salary cap dollars.
     
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  23. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    I didn't say they wouldn't make the playoffs because they would lose some players. In fact, I never even said they "won't" make the playoffs! I said I won't be surprised if they don't make the playoffs and I won't. I love Wilson but, would you bank on him if he had an average defense to count on? I wouldn't. The stars aligned for that team this year and seldom does it all fall into place with teams like that, two years in a row. They have one superstar on offense and the rest are just guys. They're 2 defensive injuries away from being 6-10.
     
  24. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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  25. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Let's also be honest that their draft success is a lot of luck too. You can call him shrewd all you want. But to hit on so many mid- and late-round picks, plus undrafted guys, in such a short time frame is lucky. Credit to him for taking the right guy, but to hit at this rate is not something you can bank on and is lucky.
     

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