Cardinals releasing safety Tyrann Mathieu

[Dantés]

I take back my earlier comment about Mathieu, he's a playmaker, if he can be gotten we could use him. Not at 15 million per year, but I'd have a little leeway either side of 10.

Hard for me to get on board with that given that he has missed time every year save last year (which was his worst). He had one monster season in 2014 when he played 11 games but he hasn't been able to put another one together otherwise due to health. You could call it bad luck, but he's 186 lbs and throws his body around so it seems to add up that he's going to continue to miss time. I'd love to see him playing the slot, but not for ~10M.

 

[SoonerPack]

Honey Badger is a playmaker. Period. If you have a chance to add a guy like that to your D, do it. I imagine MP could come up with a few different ways to best utilize his diverse skill-set.

 

[SoonerPack]

Hard for me to get on board with that given that he has missed time every year save last year (which was his worst). He had one monster season in 2014 when he played 11 games but he hasn't been able to put another one together otherwise due to health. You could call it bad luck, but he's 186 lbs and throws his body around so it seems to add up that he's going to continue to miss time. I'd love to see him playing the slot, but not for ~10M.

He does seem to have some Bob Sanders in him. Beast when he's on the field...hurt when he's not.

 

[McKnowledge]

Your statement above sounded like you were saying that the CB position in general and for the Packers specifically requires a minimum height of 5'11". If you're only talking about the Packers, that's fine. We can only talk about the Packers.

You keep dodging the question. If Green Bay requires a minimum height of 5'11" because of man coverage responsibilities, then why was Sam Shields, their best corner of the last decade, under 5'11"? You keep misdirecting to Woodson for some reason, which is just avoiding the question.

Mike Pettine's best corner with the Jets was Darrelle Revis: 5'11.4"

His best corner in his lone year with the Bills was Leodis McKelvin: 5'10.2"

His best corner with the Browns was Joe Haden: 5'10.6"

So he was .5" away from his best corners at all three of his stops as a DC/HC being under your minimum requirement.

So if it's a requirement for the Packers, explain Sam Shields. If it's a requirement for Pettine, explain his success with sub 5'11" guys.

Of course taller is better, all else being equal, but if you pass on 5'10" corners because you think it's a non-fit then you're making yourself worse. Denzel Ward is 5'10.7", but he's 10X the press man corner that the 6'1" Josh Jackson is. A lot of shorter corners I've named are fantastic press man corners (Verrett, Harris, Jenkins, Grimes, etc.). None of this makes any sense to me.

I'm 5'11'', if you're shorter, get over it. Don't take it personal. Its just my opinion. My opinion, Charles Woodson, not Sam Shields, has been the best CB/DB for the Green Bay Packer this last decade. I have been talking about the Packers, specifically, the entire time. I just think that Green Bay should go big in the secondary this year. I would like to see Green Bay employ a bigger DB/CB at nickel corner/slot to combat TE's (usually big) and bigger WRs. Especially in the redzone, a taller DB/CB would likely fair better against these of pass catchers.

 

[thequick12]

I read this the other day... "The cornerback market is lucrative and one source said Melvin was looking for $10 million per year. If the Packers sign him — or another free-agent cornerback — it could come at the expense of retaining Morgan Burnett."

This doesn't mean he will get the 10M per but I don't know if 5M is going to cut it...

I'd rather have Mathieu than Burnett because he's a play maker. In the little bit I've watched of Melvin I think I'd rather have him too. He looks like he's a play maker too and I saw him make plays against good players. 5 million per may be too low I guess that was for more slot guys. Maybe somewhere in between that and what breeland got at 8 million per year over 3

 

[PikeBadger]

Without Burnett Packers still have same problem. Haha and Jones are both better as strong safeties. If you draft James you then have 3 guys who are best in the same spot. I'd prefer a guy like Justin Reid or Jesse Bates in the 2nd/3rd round. Or even Fitzpatrick at #14. Pettines system is single high safety heavy apparently. Those 3 guys could excel in that role. Maybe Jones can but haha has proven he cant

Team badly needs a ball hawking free safety with good natural instinctiveness.

 

[Dantés]

I'm 5'11'', if you're shorter, get over it. Don't take it personal. Its just my opinion. My opinion, Charles Woodson, not Sam Shields, has been the best CB/DB for the Green Bay Packer this last decade. I have been talking about the Packers, specifically, the entire time. I just think that Green Bay should go big in the secondary this year. I would like to see Green Bay employ a bigger DB/CB at nickel corner/slot to combat TE's (usually big) and bigger WRs. Especially in the redzone, a taller DB/CB would likely fair better against these of pass catchers.

Even if you categorize Woodson as a corner and thus the best of the last decade, you're still dodging the question. Sam Shields, whether #1 or #2 in your book, was a great man corner for the Packers and under 5'11". I don't see why we should write players like him off. If it bore out in the league that 5'10" corners don't pan out, I could see that. But it most certainly does not, so I don't understand the logic of it. I would give a 5'10" corner with great man cover skills a better chance against big receivers than a 6' guy with sub-par ability.

Take Ward and Jackson as examples even further. Ward is a shade under 5'11" and Jackson is about 6'1". But Ward is a better press corner, has longer arms, and better jumps. To pass on the former for the latter just because of height makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Dblbogey]

Yeah we might be a team that would be interested.. but at 10M minimum... we can get 2 CB's for that and have some left over for someone else.

I'd give 7 million, put him at slot. Let me know when his price drops.

 

[Dblbogey]

This does not explain the presence of several good sub 5'11" corners in the league or the fact that the best corner of the last decade in Green Bay was sub 5'11". You just said 5'11" is a league minimum requirement and specifically in Green Bay. So explain to me why I find so many "exceptions" in the league and even on the Packers.

It's the Ron Wolf unwritten rule. Draft no corner under 5'10 1/2".

 

[Mondio]

I'm not expecting Burnett back, and I'd rather they make a change there anyway. He's solid and we could do worse, but he's never been that playmaker and I'd rather take some swings at getting a playmaker back there. I don't think his body is going to keep him on the field as much anymore either. he seems t be dealing more and more with nagging injuries that keep him out of practice and games lately.

 

[SoonerPack]

I'd rather have Mathieu than Burnett because he's a play maker. In the little bit I've watched of Melvin I think I'd rather have him too. He looks like he's a play maker too and I saw him make plays against good players. 5 million per may be too low I guess that was for more slot guys. Maybe somewhere in between that and what breeland got at 8 million per year over 3

I love Morgan and what he's meant to the team. He is a class act and a true "Packer." With that being said, we need play makers. Guys that can flip momentum in an instant and The HB is one of those guys.

I too like Melvin. He has great length and seems to have some dog in him. I also like guys like him that have been in the league a couple years but also remember not being drafted aka play with a chip on their shoulder. He isn't going to be All Pro or anything (never know I guess...) but he looks to be a steady, consistent performer and that is something the secondary could desperately use. I hope we end up with him...

 

[Dantés]

It's the Ron Wolf unwritten rule. Draft no corner under 5'10 1/2".

Gute needs to bump that down another 1/2".

 

[McKnowledge]

Even if you categorize Woodson as a corner and thus the best of the last decade, you're still dodging the question. Sam Shields, whether #1 or #2 in your book, was a great man corner for the Packers and under 5'11". I don't see why we should write players like him off. If it bore out in the league that 5'10" corners don't pan out, I could see that. But it most certainly does not, so I don't understand the logic of it. I would give a 5'10" corner with great man cover skills a better chance against big receivers than a 6' guy with sub-par ability.

Take Ward and Jackson as examples even further. Ward is a shade under 5'11" and Jackson is about 6'1". But Ward is a better press corner, has longer arms, and better jumps. To pass on the former for the latter just because of height makes absolutely no sense.

McKnowledge out...

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[OldSchool101]

It depends much upon where we are at with Morgan’s deal $$ and if we regard him as a better long term answer in this new system.

 

[longtimefan]

Even if you categorize Woodson as a corner and thus the best of the last decade, you're still dodging the question. Sam Shields, whether #1 or #2 in your book, was a great man corner for the Packers and under 5'11". I don't see why we should write players like him off. If it bore out in the league that 5'10" corners don't pan out, I could see that. But it most certainly does not, so I don't understand the logic of it. I would give a 5'10" corner with great man cover skills a better chance against big receivers than a 6' guy with sub-par ability.

Take Ward and Jackson as examples even further. Ward is a shade under 5'11" and Jackson is about 6'1". But Ward is a better press corner, has longer arms, and better jumps. To pass on the former for the latter just because of height makes absolutely no sense.

under 5 10 or near that, you need Speed..

Honey badger doesn't have that. . Sam did.

General rule it seems taller more physical cb can do better with less speed. shorter cb not as physical need speed

 

[Dantés]

under 5 10 or near that, you need Speed..

Honey badger doesn't have that. . Sam did.

General rule it seems taller more physical cb can do better with less speed. shorter cb not as physical need speed

I agree with the general premise that shorter corners need plus athleticism to succeed (though I think that success stories of even big unathletic corners are few and far between), but I don't know if pure speed is the absolute necessity. Out of the list I offered earlier, Janoris Jenkins, Brent Grimes, Brandon Flowers, Joe Haden, Malcolm Butler, and E.J. Gaines were all 4.50 or slower coming out of college. Chris Harris Jr. was close at 4.48.

But the two shorter corners that I think ought to be in consideration at #14, Ward and Alexander, are both really fast and really athletic so that should not be an issue.

 

[Mondio]

I like Burnett too, nothing against him at all. If I didn't have concerns about how his body was holding up, I'd rather keep him and work on replacing Ha Ha. But age and health are working in HaHa's favor and not in Burnett's

 

[GleefulGary]

Your statement above sounded like you were saying that the CB position in general and for the Packers specifically requires a minimum height of 5'11". If you're only talking about the Packers, that's fine. We can only talk about the Packers.

You keep dodging the question. If Green Bay requires a minimum height of 5'11" because of man coverage responsibilities, then why was Sam Shields, their best corner of the last decade, under 5'11"? You keep misdirecting to Woodson for some reason, which is just avoiding the question.

Mike Pettine's best corner with the Jets was Darrelle Revis: 5'11.4"

His best corner in his lone year with the Bills was Leodis McKelvin: 5'10.2"

His best corner with the Browns was Joe Haden: 5'10.6"

So he was .5" away from his best corners at all three of his stops as a DC/HC being under your minimum requirement.

So if it's a requirement for the Packers, explain Sam Shields. If it's a requirement for Pettine, explain his success with sub 5'11" guys.

Of course taller is better, all else being equal, but if you pass on 5'10" corners because you think it's a non-fit then you're making yourself worse. Denzel Ward is 5'10.7", but he's 10X the press man corner that the 6'1" Josh Jackson is. A lot of shorter corners I've named are fantastic press man corners (Verrett, Harris, Jenkins, Grimes, etc.). None of this makes any sense to me.

Call the cops! I just witnessed a murder!

 

[Dantés]

One other thing I'll add is that if they sign Rashaan Melvin, then they have a 6'3" starter and a 6'2" starter. You have to be able to match up with smaller, faster wide receivers too. Just like at receiver, you want diversified skillsets in your defensive backfield.

 

[GleefulGary]

McKnowledge out...

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This often happens when conjecture meets facts and evidence.

 

[elcid]

I think he gets a 4 year 60M deal, whereas Id only see us pay 48M (sadly). Id honestly much rather have Mathieu at 12M a season than Melvin at 8M

 

[C-Lee]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/joearrigo/status/974419500916391936[/TWEET]
Bit of a weak source, but I want the Honey Badger so bad. I really think he could make a Woodson-esque difference in this secondary. We need playmakers!

 

[C-Lee]

[TWEET]https://twitter.com/massey_evan/status/974425265114959874[/TWEET]
Get him Gute!

 

[Spanky]

I want Melvin and the Honey Badger.

Then draft an edge rusher at #14 and hoist the Lombardi Trophy at the end of the season.

 

[Jerellh528]

If we truly get mathieu then Burnett is gone and we move Haha to SS? A safety tandem of mathieu and Haha would be pretty sweet. The defense needs a true playmaker like him.