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Can Harris shutdown Father Time?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Pack93z, Apr 17, 2008.

  1. BangTheDrum

    BangTheDrum Cheesehead

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    Ive never understood why people think Al Harris is a physical corner... I think hes a little b**ch, sure hes decent against tiny receivers but look at what guys like Plaxico and T.O. can do to him, hes weak and cant tackle for crap
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    First time Al faced Plaxico in week 2, he held Plax to 2 catches for 32 yards.

    As for the TO thing, it was stated in an article a while back that TO's production wasn't entirely Harris' fault.

    The article pointed out how the Cowboys had TO lining up in the slot, and since Harris doesn't play nickel CB at all (as C-Wood pointed out), what ended up happening was Harris applied the jam at the LOS and then let TO drop off to be picked up by someone like Nick Collins/Jarret Bush/etc.

    When the defenders switched, Harris ended up covering the underneath WRs and that's why a lot of the time it looked like the Packers were playing zone coverage when they weren't.

    I really think not having Woodson vs the Cowboys hurt more than anyone has acknowledged. Woodson is someone that can stay on a WR even if the WR goes in motion and lines up in the slot.

    You can't blame Harris fully for the TO thing. When TO was lined up man to man, like the first play of that Cowboys game, then Harris could handle him IMO (as he showed by ripping the ball from TO in what should have been an INT).

    The problem began when the Boys used TO in motion, and there was no C-Wood to serve as cover for such a situation. That's not to say that Al doesn't deserve any blame for his performance against the Cowboys, but you have to look at the context of Al's play and be fair about the blame IMO.
     
  3. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Perhaps McCarthy and Sanders thought "Eli can't possibly play out of this world for 60 full minutes".

    Let's be real trom, Al was awful in that game, but you have to realize that Eli was sensational. He was making extremely accurate throws, him and Plax had unbelievable chemistry and execution that night.

    I still remember this play where Eli took the snap, and threw the ball right away towards Plax's back. Burress had his back to the ball since he wasn't finished running his route, and as soon as Al turned his back, Burress curled in and caught the ball. Meanwhile Al turns around only to see Burress with the ball trying to make a move.

    That's some exceptional accuracy and execution. You also have to give credit to Eli and Plax instead of just blaming Al, IMO.

    Yes Al was bad, but he was bullied because of an exceptional game-plan that was executed better than anyone would have imagined, in addition to Al not showing up completely.
     
  4. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    Yep. To get beat is one thing. It happens. But to continue to run your mouth while you're getting your *** handed to you is pretty embarrassing.

    :x :soapbox: :wall:
     
  5. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    All he did was do the ol' Dante Culpepper 'throw it up' play, and it worked, because our elite CB sucks against big WRs.

    Lets be real.
     
  6. DoddPower

    DoddPower Nick Perry is watching you, NFL QB's!

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    LOL
     
  7. IronBMike

    IronBMike Cheesehead

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    I don't see how there can be any debate here, Harris is getting older and his skills are rapidly declining. We need to replace him NOW, especially with that attitude he has. The NFL is the "what have you done for me lately" league, and Harris has done SQUAT lately.
     
  8. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    :pop:

    Funny, this sounds like the Great Favre Debate after the '05 season.

    "He's old!! Done!! He'll never be the same!!"

    "He's not that old!! He needs better players around him!! It's not his fault!! Give him a chance, people!!!"

    :D

    ... and now we know. An aging player can perform poorly in one season (in this case perform poorly in two games out of 18), and still come back to have one of the best seasons of his life.
     
  9. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    The big difference between Favre in '05 and Harris now is that the CB position, once your skills go, it's over. A QB with declining physical skills still has his noggin and experience. And let's face it, arms age much slower than legs. Look at Favre's long ball. Best in the NFL in '07 (led the NFL in passes over 40 yards).
     
  10. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    Harris' game has never been speed, though, zombie. It's all in his strength at the LOS, his amount of upper body strength. He thrives in the area of technique.

    My point is, Al was banged up all season. He played pretty well all year, then had two bad games. In the Dallas game, which I thought he looked worse than the Championship, he still had a pick and one obvious takeaway that the zebras shamelessly whistled off. If he has the same struggles in '08, I'll admit that he's on the downside. Until then, he gets the benefit of the doubt with me. :shrug:
     
  11. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I agree, well said.

    A couple of years ago, before Cliff Christl retired from journalism, he made an interesting comment in one of his chats. He said he thought players like TO and Al could continue to do what they do at a high level into their mid 30's, because both of them took unbelievable care of their bodies, allowing them to fend off father time for a short while.

    Here is a question that might be interesting: can anyone name a CB that was 34 yet still played at a very high level? I can't really think of one right off the top of my head...
     
  12. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Darrell Green, CB Redskins
     
  13. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Damn 93z, that was fast. *goes to check info about him*
     
  14. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Neon Deion. Didn't he play until he was 37? Heck, he could probably still play.
     
  15. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    PIB - See, that's what I'm hoping. Al Harris, despite another poster's hate for him, is still one of my favorite players. I'm hoping it's just injuries and he bounces back and kicks butt in '08.
     
  16. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Teams have seen how to beat Al Harris, and now have an entire offseason to gameplan for it.

    If TT brings in any CB with talent, I wouldn't be surprised to see Harris replaced before the season is out. If not, they'll need to give him some help against teams with any sort of passing attack.
     
  17. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Well......I'm HOPING that Harris' injuries were what kept him back. If it was, he could come back and be good again. If he shows early in the season that he no longer can do the job, i hope the team has a plan B already set up.
     
  18. IBleedGreenandGold

    IBleedGreenandGold Cheesehead

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    I agree, i dont think the packers should give up on harris just yet, especially with our experience with some atrocious secondary's we've had (Carroll). He proved that just because you are fast dosen't automatically make you a good football player. However, an underperforming Harris could just as easily be gone by the end of this season or next off season
     
  19. pack_in_black

    pack_in_black Cheesehead

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    While I respect your opinion, I disagree. Very much.

    You suggest that beating Al Harris is as easy as just gameplanning. I think that it is moreso having a TO or Plaxico on your roster.

    Players have bad games. It's part of the game, we all know that. Al Harris is aging, yes. But I think that his lack of heavy playing time early in his career, along with the shape he keeps himself in, will extend his longevity more than normal.
     
  20. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I also think you need to have a good accurate QB too.

    Not every team has a Romo or a QB that plays as good as Eli did in the NFC Championship game.

    Out of the teams we will be playing this year, the only teams that you could say have a WR the caliber of TO/Plax are the Panthers (Smith), Colts (Wayne), and Cowboys (TO himself).

    Also, Al is a competitor. Is anyone actually going to suggest that al isn't going to be a man on a mission looking to redeem himself for his poor performance?

    I have faith in Al (and Troy Vincent) to figure out what he did wrong and work to correct it.
     
  21. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Eli was throwing them up Culpepper style. I dont know why you keep praising Eli. Eli played smart and didn't lose them the game. He didn't exactly win it though, well I guess he did, by not being a total idiot. But he wasnt exactly Accurate Andy that game. He didn't have to be.
     
  22. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Perhaps the post in which I implied Eli was making accurate throws could have been worded better.

    What I meant to say is that you need good QBs that can exploit the advantage WRs like Plax and TO supposedly have over Al.

    Good QBs like Romo, or QBs playing as well as Eli did (as far as being on the same page with Plax and executing plays designed to go to the top WR).

    I personally think eli played exceptional considering the circumstances, but I'm didn't mean to imply you need QBs like Eli to exploit potential mismatches top tier WRs have over Al. Well I guess I did, though only as far as the idea that QB needs to be able to feed his main man (WR) the ball as well as Eli did that night.

    That's what I'm praising Eli for, for finding the guy that was doing the damage all night. Not trying to get fancy or anything, just passing to Plax and letting him do his thing.

    Regardless, I think Al will be fine. He has been hyped by the media a little too much, but I still think he'll hold his own when he has to, including against WRs like TO (as long as C-Wood is playing opposite him).

    I'm really not that concerned about Al losing "it" based off of two bad games (one of which, against Cowboys, I don't put too much emphasis on).


    I really don't know if that made sense, but yeah. It's 4 am, and I quit.
     
  23. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Cowboys and Giants. Two teams that are likely to get into the playoffs along with the Packers(my prediction, duh).

    I'm not too worried about the SITUATION because McCarthy\Thompson\Sanders won't allow that to happen. They will fix it with personnel moves and different playcalling.

    McCarthy has too much faith in people sometimes.
     
  24. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Probably a side effect of having Greg Jennings on your team.
     
  25. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    If all else fails, we could simply get Dendy back, eh trom?
     

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