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Building through the Draft is fine...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackersRS, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    The Steelers do it sucessfully for years. The Patriots did it, when they won the SB.
    -
    But in order to be sucessfull, you just cannot miss as much as TT did. It's simple. The Giants have an OL builded from late draft picks. But they can actually play football.

    You can be sucessfull and miss some in the draft. But you need FAs that can complement the areas where you failed to adress.

    I don't have a problem with TT's system, but he failed.
     
  2. bad93ex

    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    I think it is the ideology that you take the best player available in the draft (i.e. Justin Harrel, Brandon Jackson, Pat Lee, Jordy Nelson...) Some of those guys are decent but others flat out suck. As a GM you have to forecast and help areas of your team that will be getting up in age or other issues. That philosophy has a blatant disregard for that and we are seeing what happens as a result of that.
     
  3. paco

    paco Cheesehead

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    who says we are done building? I don't think you ever are. TT has missed on a bunch of picks, no question. But until you compare it to every other team, I can't say much.

    I've never been a huge fan of the free agent market myself. The guys that are available are available for a reason. Either they are asking for WAY to much money or they are older and broken down.

    I can't think of many top end free agents the last several years that you can say have lived up to their contract. Please name them if you know them.

    But TT hit 2 grand slams with Pickett and Woodson in the same year. But we got them later in the year and for less money. It's harder to find those guys. If we would have signed Haynesworth this year, I would have **** a brick. Overpaying for guys like that don't win you games, much less championships. Just ask the Redskins how well it's worked for them the last 5-10 years.

    I would expect that next season TT tries to bring in a few more 3-4 roll players. He tried this year with Anthony Smith, and he didn't work out. We also now have Derrick Martin, who is young and could develop into something good. I'm just failing to see who we missed that would have made everything better.
     
  4. bad93ex

    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    How about Randy Moss? 2007 was a monster year for him, last year he still had a good year and he is having a record year so far.

    How about Jared Allen? You got to see him up close and personal this past game he looks pretty good.

    Matt Birk is looking pretty good right now for the Ravens right now as well.

    Cedric Benson is doing some pretty good things for the Bengals right now too.
     
  5. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    I think some might have different view....

    http://http://bleacherreport.com/ar...england-patriots-will-win-the-2010-super-bowl

    http://http://www.patriots.com/team/index.cfm?ac=MgersandExecsbio&bio=12539 A quote from this "The Patriots have used an effective combination of free agent signings, trades and draft picks to acquire championship-caliber players".


    http://http://www.1053thefan.com/pages/5324185.php?contentType=4&contentId=3603323


    http://http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/1525548/new_york_giants_free_agency_march_2.html


    I've heard this before that other teams don't use FA, but I don't know were people are getting this from. You are right though, he is failing
     
  6. paco

    paco Cheesehead

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    Moss - TT tried to get, but never intended on signing with the Packers. Was always going to the Patriots.

    Allen - I'll give you that one, IF we stayed in the 4-3. He's not a 3-4 guy, not big enough.

    Birk - Eh, too old for the money. Don't think he's a big enough upgrade over Spitz. I still like Spitz at center, need to get Wells out of there.

    Benson - Would you have actually taken a flyer on him? Everyone thought he'd go to the Bengals to finally die. Kudos to him, but no one thought he'd do any good.
     
  7. bad93ex

    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    The point I was trying to make with those guys is that were FA's who have had an impact on their respective teams.

    Any free agent who goes to the Redskins or Raiders is doomed regardless of talent level. Those are just horrible franchises.
     
  8. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    Thats just false about Moss. He would have and wanted to come here.
     
  9. bad93ex

    bad93ex Cheesehead

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    The worst part about Moss was that it would have costed the Pack nothing as Favre said he would have re-negotiated his contract to fit Moss in. Instead the Packers held onto that coveted first round pick in 2007 that was used on the best available player in the draft. Still stings to this day.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    First of all, first link leads to nowhere.

    I'm not talking about the team that was 18-0 and FAILED to win it. I'm not talking about the 2006, 2007, 2008 or the 2009 Patriots. Those teams didn't win squat.

    I'm talking about the 2001-2004 teams that WON it for them. They had very little FAs. Bellichick changed his approach. From a defensively though, draft based team to an offensive ladden, FA full team.
    Also, Pittsburgh has almost zero FAs. Same as 2005.

    Sorry, it does work. And if you take a look at all the teams that won it, inlcuding the Giants, they all had been build mostly through the draft. Actually, the Giants had almost the same blueprint as we have. 3-4 FAs. And I hadn't included them.

    Those teams were build through the draft and won it. The fact that they have adquired FAs NOW doesn't change that fact.

    Being bad at a system doesn't mean it doesn't work.
     
  11. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    The steelers have made fa signings. As this link from 08 shows
    http://www.steelersfever.com/editorials/0807.html They just not big splashes in the market. I am not saying it is done by getting every big name out there. But rather use it to help the team which TT will not do. you cannot build a team unless you hit big time with your picks. Look at the quote I had where it says the Pats used a combo to build there team, and that artcile isnt' talking about the pats 2years ago either. it goes back further than that.
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Fixed your link you had two http in there

    Those are not big free agent signings though? The Packers do sign guys like that..

    The thing that really boggles my mind, is that it worked with Woody and Picket, so why are they so scared now?
     
  13. Jess

    Jess Movement!

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    I think Ted embezzles the extra cap money. If we spend it on FA's, he doesn't get to steal as much of it.

    :-P
     
  14. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    You call Chillar, Woodson and Pickett what exactly?

    EXACTLY my point. Read my first post. It says clearly that.

    Those links lead to nowhere. Where were those FAs that the Patriots had, that I don't recall? On the winning teams, not in the stats ladden teams.

    It works man. You haven't refuted that, and I've shown you. Again, the fact that TT sucks at it doesn't mean the system doesn't work.
     
  15. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    thanks for that. tough to do at times when I'm at work and trying not to be too obvious
     
  16. pbateman

    pbateman Cheesehead

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    If this season ends 8-8 or 9-7 and no playoffs, next year will be TT's definitive year one way or the other. Another miss next year and he's likely gone. Just doesn't have the successful track record since he's been here to justify continuing with his terrible era.
     
  17. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

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    i know what you said in your post, but I guess we will have to agree to disagree. But please enough with woodson that was a millenia ago. What has he(TT) done in this area lately. And bringing in 1 or 2 guys(which dont even make the team) doesnt count. And i will refute this system as TT has taken your examples to the extrem. These teams still bring guys in, just not high dollar big names so it may seem like they are inactive on the market but in reality they are bringing in players that don't have to develop. The moves dont make big headlines. This system is not like these because he hardley brings anyone in. And if all these teams are doing it the exact same way that Ted is, then I suggest that we go after one of them.
     

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