Brian Gutenkunst FA and Draft Grades

[Heyjoe4]

That's a great point. Last year was the most unpredictable years I can really remember.

Who had KC/Baltimore and Detroit missing the play-offs too?!

If someone had told me that none of the following teams - KC, Baltimore, and Detroit would miss the playoffs, well I surely wouldn't have bet on that. Strange year.

 

[milani]

Agreed. Drake Maye was just not ready for a moment that big at this point in his career. It was invaluable experience.

And yeah, Denver/Seattle would have been a better matchup, even with Nix not playing. Denver has the best D in the AFC, my opinion. I still think Seattle wins, but it would have been a better game to watch.

Denver WITH Nix would have been a contest because he is very elusive even against a strong pass rush. And Denver's D can make plays. Do not forget that Sean Payton is a master game planner on both sides of the ball. I believe he won a SB against a favored opponent before.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Denver WITH Nix would have been a contest because he is very elusive even against a strong pass rush. And Denver's D can make plays. Do not forget that Sean Payton is a master game planner on both sides of the ball. I believe he won a SB against a favored opponent before.

Correct on both points. Nix and the Broncs would have been a much tougher out for the hags.

I think Sean Payton's Saints beat Peyton Manning and the Colts in Feb 2009, not sure about the year. I remember Drew Brees playing and I think winning MVP. And the Colts were favored to win, as I recall.

 

[CarryTheG14]

If someone had told me that none of the following teams - KC, Baltimore, and Detroit would miss the playoffs, well I surely wouldn't have bet on that. Strange year.

I wonder what the parlay odds were lol.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wonder what the parlay odds were lol.

Yeah that would have been something! Like hitting the bizarro trifecta.

It will be interesting to see how these teams recover next year. With the offseason still in process, I rank them - Baltimore, Detroit, and KC, with KC a distant third and Baltimore/Detroit even.

I think the Ravens added Maxx Crosby from the Raiders. Even with upcoming offseason moves/the draft, I don't see any of these three teams as SB favorites. They should all be back in the playoffs though.

 

[tynimiller]

If someone had told me that none of the following teams - KC, Baltimore, and Detroit would miss the playoffs, well I surely wouldn't have bet on that. Strange year.

This should remind so many that it IS INCREDIBLY HARD to just make the playoffs....yet so many dismiss it like it is as easy as picking an apple from a tree...

 

[Heyjoe4]

This should remind so many that it IS INCREDIBLY HARD to just make the playoffs....yet so many dismiss it like it is as easy as picking an apple from a tree...

Add to that how often the Packers are in the playoffs. I don't remember the last time the Packers missed the playoffs. It's not something to take for granted, and it's an acknowledgment of the talent in GB on and off the field.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Why does it matter how long they’ve been there? Wolfe turned around a perennial loser and did in one season what Gute hasn’t done in eight. Why should he not be higher?

I think Gladstone and Holmes did very well with their coaching hires which is part of the job to me.

If you want to rank Gute in the 5-8 range that is totally fine with me. I don’t think it’s egregious. The devils advocate in me would ask if we have a top 5-8 GM why we aren’t finishing in the top 5-8 teams at the end of the season.

The Packers aren't a top 5 to 8 team because MLF isn't a top 10 coach. His record against the other 3 coaches in the NFC North is 8-13. That about tells you all you need to know.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The Packers aren't a top 5 to 8 team because MLF isn't a top 10 coach. His record against the other 3 coaches in the NFC North is 8-13. That about tells you all you need to know.

A lot of ideas going around in these comments. I agree with you Sanguine, MLF is not among the 10 best HCs in the NFL. That doesn't make him a terrible coach. A great coach adds to the talent already in place. MLF doesn't do that with his coaching, play calling, clock management, inability to manage the entire team, and on.

I've gone back and forth on whether Policy was right to keep him. After 7 years, we've probably seen all that he's got as far as creativity. If anything, we all tend to fall back on the things we are comfortable with as we get older. New ideas are mostly at a premium. Human nature I guess.......

The team has talent and will be a better team than last year. Is that enough to keep up with the hard-charging Bears, much less teams like the hags, Pats, Broncos, Rams? I don't know, I really don't.

 

[rmontro]

I've gone back and forth on whether Policy was right to keep him. After 7 years, we've probably seen all that he's got as far as creativity.

I thought we should have moved on. And I'm sure people will think, oh look at this negative fan who's never happy, but that's not true. I'm not the type to want to replace the coach every year. I don't remember the last time I wanted the coach replaced. Maybe Ray Rhodes.

It is hard to make the playoffs. My main source of optimism for the coming year is getting Parsons back at the end of the season, just in time to get hot and make a playoff run. But you never know, we might not even get into the playoffs.

 

[rmontro]

I think the Ravens added Maxx Crosby from the Raiders.

The Raven backed out of that deal, they didn't like what they saw with his physical.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I thought we should have moved on. And I'm sure people will think, oh look at this negative fan who's never happy, but that's not true. I'm not the type to want to replace the coach every year. I don't remember the last time I wanted the coach replaced. Maybe Ray Rhodes.

It is hard to make the playoffs. My main source of optimism for the coming year is getting Parsons back at the end of the season, just in time to get hot and make a playoff run. But you never know, we might not even get into the playoffs.

Well I guess the FO feels pretty good about the people they have (when healthy). Given the number of significant injuries, that may be correct.

I'm more bothered by the offensive coaching staff standing pat. Stevanich coming back as OC? Then again, when the HC calls all the offensive plays, what does an OC do? Not much, from what I've seen.

And not real happy about Mannion leaving to take the OC job with Philly. If Philly, or any other team, feels that strongly about a guy, why not try and keep him? I'm sure OC in Philly, where he will call plays, sounded a lot better than the placeholder OC gig in GB. So GB had little to offer him.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The Raven backed out of that deal, they didn't like what they saw with his physical.

Didn't know that, thanks. I think he's 30 or 31, so at that age when DEs usually start to see their numbers drop. Even so, failing a physical, or whatever happened, is not good.

 

[Magooch]

The Packers aren't a top 5 to 8 team because MLF isn't a top 10 coach. His record against the other 3 coaches in the NFC North is 8-13. That about tells you all you need to know.

I think there probably has to be some truth to this sentiment....

Or at least I should say...all the various "accolades" I see placed upon this team can't ALL be true at the same time.

Because from what I've heard...

Gute is one of the best GMs in the league, and most teams would love to have him
LaFleur is one of the best head coaches in the league, and he would be snatched up in an instant if we let him go
Jordan Love is an elite QB
Josh Jacobs is an elite RB
We have one of the best WR rooms in the league
Top to bottom we have one of the best rosters in the league

And so judging by what we hear said about this team....we have an elite GM who has assembled an elite roster full of elite skill players and an elite QB who is being led by an elite coach and yet....for the last few years we are consistently a fringe playoff team or a one-and-done.

So it seems to me like either A.) all of these things can't be true or B.) at the end of the day none of that stuff really matters because winning in football basically comes down to being lucky and healthy and we've not been either of those things

 

[DoURant]

I think there probably has to be some truth to this sentiment....

Or at least I should say...all the various "accolades" I see placed upon this team can't ALL be true at the same time.

Because from what I've heard...

Gute is one of the best GMs in the league, and most teams would love to have him
LaFleur is one of the best head coaches in the league, and he would be snatched up in an instant if we let him go
Jordan Love is an elite QB
Josh Jacobs is an elite RB
We have one of the best WR rooms in the league
Top to bottom we have one of the best rosters in the league

And so judging by what we hear said about this team....we have an elite GM who has assembled an elite roster full of elite skill players and an elite QB who is being led by an elite coach and yet....for the last few years we are consistently a fringe playoff team or a one-and-done.

So it seems to me like either A.) all of these things can't be true or B.) at the end of the day none of that stuff really matters because winning in football basically comes down to being lucky and healthy and we've not been either of those things

I think you could say that A. and B. are both true. Plus, any given Sunday, any team can beat another. There are 32 professional teams in the NFL, some better than others, but at the end of the day it's who makes the right in game adjustments, and executes better, will win. We are one of the most talented teams on paper, but coaching is the intangible that helps the win column, and we seem to lack that killer instinct, overall.

 

[Sanguine camper]

A lot of ideas going around in these comments. I agree with you Sanguine, MLF is not among the 10 best HCs in the NFL. That doesn't make him a terrible coach. A great coach adds to the talent already in place. MLF doesn't do that with his coaching, play calling, clock management, inability to manage the entire team, and on.

I've gone back and forth on whether Policy was right to keep him. After 7 years, we've probably seen all that he's got as far as creativity. If anything, we all tend to fall back on the things we are comfortable with as we get older. New ideas are mostly at a premium. Human nature I guess.......

The team has talent and will be a better team than last year. Is that enough to keep up with the hard-charging Bears, much less teams like the hags, Pats, Broncos, Rams? I don't know, I really don't.

I agree with you that MLF isn't a bad coach. He has his strengths but after 7 seasons he's shown that he lacks managerial skills. His record with QB's is very good and I think his record at designing plays and offenses is proven. As I've posted before, MLF would make a really good offensive coordinator. Get him in a game, however, and he too often falls apart.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I agree with you that MLF isn't a bad coach. He has his strengths but after 7 seasons he's shown that he lacks managerial skills. His record with QB's is very good and I think his record at designing plays and offenses is proven. As I've posted before, MLF would make a really good offensive coordinator. Get him in a game, however, and he too often falls apart.

Yeah and good catch on MLF's lack of managerial skills. I'm just not sure how that is affecting the team. Hard to quantify. But if I could point to one thing, as far as replacing him after last season, this would be it. Game after game, he shows he can't manage all aspects of the game - but hey, that's what HCs are paid for.

We hear so much about how so-and-so came from so-and-so's coaching "tree". And the usual names at the top are McVay and Shanahan, and probably Reid. Point is, there are few people who have what it takes to be true leaders. I think MLF is missing this piece.

That's not a diss. As a HC he's won a LOT of games and winning is everything. He did manage the transition from Rodgers to Love well, and I think that's because he is great with QBs. He's given us a lot of very good football, just not great football. It makes it hard to complain w/o coming across as a whiner.

Well at least for the upcoming season, the debate is over. Win with MLF, die with MLF. That's the way Policy wanted it, and that's what he, and the rest of us, are gonna get.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think there probably has to be some truth to this sentiment....

Or at least I should say...all the various "accolades" I see placed upon this team can't ALL be true at the same time.

Because from what I've heard...

Gute is one of the best GMs in the league, and most teams would love to have him
LaFleur is one of the best head coaches in the league, and he would be snatched up in an instant if we let him go
Jordan Love is an elite QB
Josh Jacobs is an elite RB
We have one of the best WR rooms in the league
Top to bottom we have one of the best rosters in the league

And so judging by what we hear said about this team....we have an elite GM who has assembled an elite roster full of elite skill players and an elite QB who is being led by an elite coach and yet....for the last few years we are consistently a fringe playoff team or a one-and-done.

So it seems to me like either A.) all of these things can't be true or B.) at the end of the day none of that stuff really matters because winning in football basically comes down to being lucky and healthy and we've not been either of those things

And Gluten has set the expectation, last season and this season, that he thinks the Packers are SB contenders - then and now. Didn't happen last year, for a lot of reasons that no one could control. So there is a new sheriff in town for the D. The offense will look just like it did last year. STs? A new kick and punt returner may make a huge difference. Oh and a reliable kicker. TBD.

Is this enough to contend for a SB. We'll find out.

 

[Magooch]

You're both pretty much echoing my sentiments. There are a lot of things I really like about Matt but it just feels like overall in pressure situations games have a tendency to get away from him, like there's too many responsibilities he's expected to cover. I think he'd do great as an offensive coordinator or if he was able to delegate out more of his responsibilities across his staff, but unfortunately I think he kind of has a mixed record in that regard as well. He's generally not done great with handing off responsibility and the staff he's selected have been a mixed bag too. So it is what it is. In some ways it feels like Matt is a microcosm of the team as a whole - does a lot of things right, but just missing the last few percentages to push it over the hump.

The tricky part to me is that it feels like Matt's flaws are ones that are difficult to iron out. It's like...you can teach a guy to run different routes. You can teach a pass rusher to develop some additional moves. Your QB can learn a new playbook. But in the case of Matt it feels like we are basically expecting him to learn/develop a new "coaching personality." It's not the X's and O's that often eludes him, it's the philosophy and application of them in pressure situations. As much as I would like for it to work out, I just don't know how much I can expect to be different and in some ways it feels like we are asking/expecting the leopard to change its spots here.

 

[rmontro]

A lot of ideas going around in these comments. I agree with you Sanguine, MLF is not among the 10 best HCs in the NFL.

Top 50%, I'd feel safe in saying.

 

[tynimiller]

I have said elsewhere most say if a HC doesn’t make it to a conference ship or the SB in first five years it’s time to try something new more often then not….

….but the crapstorm of Rodgers and the cap crapstorm he left in his wake to me deserves a restart as MLF never let GB really miss a beat despite it all.

Two more seasons is my timeline. If in that time we don’t win division minimum and even depending on playoff performance I’d likely cycle time…

 

[OldSchool101]

All good points milani. Parsons and Kraft won't be around in September, and Parsons will probably not be ready until early November. The team can certainlybgethot with just these two guys back. But in the meantime, they can't afford to play 2-5, 2-6 to start. I don't know the schedule. In any case, they need to start fast.

...and stay healthy. I'd love to see all the guys NOT around for the Chaicago playoff game healthy in December.

According to several sites (Dairyland Express etc) Parsons 9 month timetable puts him seeing the field in early September. Although I’d agree they’ll ramp him up gradual. The predictions are more fully ramped by late September to early October.

 

[OldSchool101]

This should remind so many that it IS INCREDIBLY HARD to just make the playoffs....yet so many dismiss it like it is as easy as picking an apple from a tree...

Yes. To give everyone an idea of how rare it is. Only 1 team has qualified for Postseason more times than Matt LaFleur since he joined the Packers. Sean McDermott’s Bills stand alone. They have qualified a perfect 100% (7/7) since 2019. Yet in the last 7 tries Buffalo has never made it to a Superbowl and the Packers and Bills both played in the same number (2) Conference games and neither advanced.

 

[rmontro]

I have said elsewhere most say if a HC doesn’t make it to a conference ship or the SB in first five years it’s time to try something new more often then not….

….but the crapstorm of Rodgers and the cap crapstorm he left in his wake to me deserves a restart as MLF never let GB really miss a beat despite it all.

Two more seasons is my timeline. If in that time we don’t win division minimum and even depending on playoff performance I’d likely cycle time…

That sounds fair, but I feel like MLF's already had his restart with Love, and it just hasn't progressed. When Rodgers left, I thought the bright spot would be MLF would be able to run HIS offense the way he wanted it, with the quarterback he wanted, who would listen to him. And while Love has had his bright spots, unfortunately it hasn't been as impressive as hoped. We just haven't been on an upward trend.

 

[tynimiller]

That sounds fair, but I feel like MLF's already had his restart with Love, and it just hasn't progressed. When Rodgers left, I thought the bright spot would be MLF would be able to run HIS offense the way he wanted it, with the quarterback he wanted, who would listen to him. And while Love has had his bright spots, unfortunately it hasn't been as impressive as hoped. We just haven't been on an upward trend.

Just disagree for sure. Love has absolutely not been the issue and for sure he has progressed. If talking about MLFer I concur to an extent, dude has a QB that can fully cook if given 40 attempts a game just go let him!