Bakhtiari to Jets?

[OldSchool101]

Yes, I agree with what you say. It's just that when Stokes got hurt; he had not been covering very good.

True. Also Stokes probably won’t be a factor for a couple games. However I fully expect him to come back reinvigorated. He’s been through a tremendous amount of adversity. My hope is that Rashan Gary will be his inspiration. Stokes can be very good when he’s healthy and focused. He was one of the best CB’s in College ball, so we know what he’s capable of. But yes He has been more stagnant as of recent, however he’s also shown he’s got a high floor by example as a year 1 starter. Stokes as a high floor and medium-high ceiling imo. He was playing closer to floor than ceiling though, yeah

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

What Jaire has to realize is that if he has one more injury teams will shy away from him. He has had several so far. As good as Darelle Revis was his value dropped suddenly after some bang ups. This is another one that will have us eating more dead cap $$. Alexander is talented but he is a bit gun shy since he took that hit against the Steelers in 2021. On the other hand our Youngs do not have the cover skills yet but they love hitting people.

Fully agree and this is the potential problem a team faces by paying so much upfront guaranteed money. Will a player stay motivated to play at a high level, maybe play hurt, etc. Jaire got $30M upfront and is averaging $21M/year? So I assume he has a very healthy bank account and money is no longer a motivating factor. Couple that with an injury and a team losing, what motivates a player to come back?

When Jaire has been healthy, I haven't been that impressed with his play. As you alluded to, was it the hit he tool against the Steelers or the contract? Someone needs to light a fire under his backside and unfortunately, it won't be setting fire to a pile of much needed money, fueling that fire.

 

[Schultz]

Statistically, he did end up being the Packers #1 WR in 2022.

However, that was my point and maybe I didn't express it well. To "have to" view Lazard as a #1 WR, is a pretty telling statement about the rest of your receiving corp.

In 2021, he was #2 in stats, behind Adams of course. Again, the receiving corp is Adams and a bunch of JAGS.

In 2020, same story. You have Adams and in that year, MVS is not even close to Adams production, but still, the #2 WR on the team.

I have only watch MVS a few times since he became a Chief, but he is a one trick pony (long ball) and not all that great at it, even with Rodgers or Mahomes.

Lazard. He signs with the Jets for $10M/year, due to Rodgers. Rodgers isn't his QB and he looks so bad, he is a healthy scratch.

So, we were correct?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So, we were correct?

Who is "we" and what were they "correct" about?

 

[Schultz]

We are the rebellion and we were correct that the Death Star had a fatal flaw.

 

[Poppa San]

Any update on him? Could he play if we make a deep run?

 

[Pkrjones]

Any update on him? Could he play if we make a deep run?

No, he's "hoping" to be ready for '24 Training Camp. https://www.packers.com/news/david-bakhtiari-addresses-season-ending-knee-injury-his-future

 

[Heyjoe4]

No, he's "hoping" to be ready for '24 Training Camp. https://www.packers.com/news/david-bakhtiari-addresses-season-ending-knee-injury-his-future

"Hoping" to be ready for 2024. I'm certain Bakh has played his last snap in GB, and maybe in the NFL. That truly makes me sad. I know, he is paid very, very well and pretty much suffered his career-ending injury while the ink was still wet on the new contract. He certainly didn't plan that.

But Bakh is a true GB/WI kinda guy. Hope he keeps going to a Bucks' game now and then.

 

[lambeaulambo]

Put the other green jersey on him because that is exactly where he is headed.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Put the other green jersey on him because that is exactly where he is headed.

We can only hope! This whole season, especially yesterday, proved to me that the Packers don't really need Bahk and his $23M/year contract. Yup, he was once a really great LT, but let this be a cautionary tale for tying way too much guaranteed money in an O-Lineman or in any one player, other than a QB.

 

[El Guapo]

Trust me that if Rasheed Walker turns into a 6 time All-Pro at left tackle, I bet that Love at the coaches will push to keep him no matter what the cost. A stone wall at LT is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Trust me that if Rasheed Walker turns into a 6 time All-Pro at left tackle, I bet that Love at the coaches will push to keep him no matter what the cost. A stone wall at LT is worth its weight in gold.

Yet, at this point he isn't an All-Pro and, well, Love and the OL had a GREAT performance yesterday.

Again, my problem isn't valuing a position like LT, it is with financially overvaluing it. Tying up the kind of money, especially guaranteed money, that they did in Bahk, just wasn't smart IMO. I said it at the time that the Packers did it and caught a ton of flack for it. It is a luxury to have a great LT, but when you have to pay him the salary of 2 pretty decent WR's or a WR and a RB, TE, etc. you start getting what the Packers offense had prior to this year. 2-3 guys (Rodgers, Bahk, Adams) pulling in a kings ransom on offense and not enough money to use to improve the team elsewhere.

 

[El Guapo]

I get it. However, they had no other real LT options at the time besides Bahktiar. The real problem is having the curse of elite players at key positions. It will cost you dearly. The better scenario is to have good players at each position, none of which who are in place to be at the top of the FA market.

About the time they signed David they had also paid Rodgers, Jaire, and Kenny Clark top cash at each of their positions. It was the curse of having great players. Now we are in a position where all of our pass catchers are going to be on rookie deals for the next few years. A team couldn't ask for anything else....well maybe a CJ Stroud scenario where the QB is also on the first year of his rookie contract!

 

[mradtke66]

I still don't think our lack of cap space really hurt us, mostly because I think FA is normally a poor value and should be used sparingly.

If we had more cap space free, I'd bet the most likely space we would have spent would be extending some of our own players.

 

[tynimiller]

IMO you gotta cut Bakh, unless he’s willing to shred his contract and sign for cheap AFTER we medically can test him. It’s literally that or don’t discuss. Trade or cut him and by trade I’d take a sixth for him honestly - zero condition of passing physical either, the risk is all on that other team.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

IMO you gotta cut Bakh, unless he’s willing to shred his contract and sign for cheap AFTER we medically can test him. It’s literally that or don’t discuss. Trade or cut him and by trade I’d take a sixth for him honestly - zero condition of passing physical either, the risk is all on that other team.

I have very little doubt that Bahk won't be playing, at least in GB, under his existing contract.

On the other hand, after this season and especially after yesterday, Aaron Jones might be. I know some of us talked about this possibly being his final season in GB. I just don't see that anymore.

 

[thequick12]

IMO you gotta cut Bakh, unless he’s willing to shred his contract and sign for cheap AFTER we medically can test him. It’s literally that or don’t discuss. Trade or cut him and by trade I’d take a sixth for him honestly - zero condition of passing physical either, the risk is all on that other team.

I agree, he says he wants to play for Packers in 2024 and why wouldnt he. He stands to be paid roughly 20 million.

Its highly unlikely any team would trade for him given his medical situation and the teams financial situation in regard to his
contract.

There's no way they can take a 40 m cap hit to see if he can play

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The real problem is having the curse of elite players at key positions. It will cost you dearly.

I wouldn't really view it as a curse. It gives them options and if the Packers are comfortable with their draft and develop philosophy, they have to trust the process and sometimes cut bait with high end players. The smart thing to do is trade that player, while he has value and not sink yourself with his big contract. This seems to be very true with the OL and the success of some of the younger guys over the last 20 or so years. Sure, the Packers have let a few go, that maybe they shouldn't have, but they have also gotten stuck overpaying a few when they maybe shouldn't have.

 

[mradtke66]

I agree, he says he wants to play for Packers in 2024 and why wouldnt he. He stands to be paid roughly 20 million.

Its highly unlikely any team would trade for him given his medical situation and the teams financial situation in regard to his
contract.

There's no way they can take a 40 m cap hit to see if he can play

As I have previously mentioned, turn his base salary into per-game bonuses. If he's active, he gets paid. If he's inactive, he doesn't. There would be more details to sort out and it's more complicated than that, but it's doable.

And since he only played 1/17 games this year, even if he's healthy the entire year, that's a 2025 cap hit, not 2024.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I still don't think our lack of cap space really hurt us, mostly because I think FA is normally a poor value and should be used sparingly.

If we had more cap space free, I'd bet the most likely space we would have spent would be extending some of our own players.

Not sure I agree.

The cap situation over the last 2 years has handcuffed Gute in the free agent market. Gute has actually done pretty good in the FA market. While I agree that sometimes high priced free agents don't pan out, I can name several that have. Just as I can name several second and third contracts for our own guys that haven't worked out.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wouldn't really view it as a curse. It gives them options and if the Packers are comfortable with their draft and develop philosophy, they have to trust the process and sometimes cut bait with high end players. The smart thing to do is trade that player, while he has value and not sink yourself with his big contract. This seems to be very true with the OL and the success of some of the younger guys over the last 20 or so years. Sure, the Packers have let a few go, that maybe they shouldn't have, but they have also gotten stuck overpaying a few when they maybe shouldn't have.

Developing elite players is a good problem to have. Can't keep em all as we saw with Linsley, but it's better than FA.

 

[mradtke66]

Not sure I agree.

The cap situation over the last 2 years has handcuffed Gute in the free agent market. Gute has actually done pretty good in the FA market.

Overall, he had one great year and I cannot deny it was a great year--Smith, Z. Smith, Amos, and Turner. I say that was something of a perfect storm to spend like that.

1. We had a lack of good talent. Years of missing in the draft came home to roost. If this happens, it means you've been messing up. You don't want this.
2. The positions we needed lined up with what was available.
3. Every one of those guys had big and obvious question marks that didn't burn us. Turner hadn't lived up to expectations. Z was a part time player that struggled to see the field. Smith never had more than 8 sacks in a season until he came to us.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Overall, he had one great year and I cannot deny it was a great year--Smith, Z. Smith, Amos, and Turner. I say that was something of a perfect storm to spend like that.

1. We had a lack of good talent. Years of missing in the draft came home to roost. If this happens, it means you've been messing up. You don't want this.
2. The positions we needed lined up with what was available.
3. Every one of those guys had big and obvious question marks that didn't burn us. Turner hadn't lived up to expectations. Z was a part time player that struggled to see the field. Smith never had more than 8 sacks in a season until he came to us.

No doubt that Gute missed on draft picks, free agents and new contracts for current players. He also scored well on some too. The goal for him and any GM, is to end up on the plus side, way more than the negative. Gute has done that IMO.

My point was this. By doing what Ball and Gute did to keep some of the big names in GB (new big money, shoving cap money out), they handcuffed themselves to spend in Free Agency on the mid-tier guys, as well as maybe to keep other players.

In reality, you and I are talking about the same thing, spending money on a top tier player, whether it is your own or a Free Agent from another team. Maybe when it comes to top tier guys, a GM is going to have better information on his own guys and potentially get more for his money. So in that regard, I see your point.

Heading into the 2024 offseason, I am much more confident that Ball and Gute will acutally have some money freed up to possibly plug a few immediate needs with Free agents, with those middle tier FA's that I speak of.

 

[tynimiller]

Developing elite players is a good problem to have. Can't keep em all as we saw with Linsley, but it's better than FA.

Speaking of, he’s retiring.

 

[mradtke66]

No doubt that Gute missed on draft picks, free agents and new contracts for current players. He also scored well on some too. The goal for him and any GM, is to end up on the plus side, way more than the negative. Gute has done that IMO.

No disagreement. My point specifically about misses is more about TT's tenure ending. When Gute **** over, the roster was a bit of mess and lacked some top end talent worth spending money on. Or it was old. Exactly how we ended up there, that's what let us spend big.

My point was this. By doing what Ball and Gute did to keep some of the big names in GB (new big money, shoving cap money out), they handcuffed themselves to spend in Free Agency on the mid-tier guys,

I don't see it as a handcuff. This year was a good opportunity to let the young players hash it out and see what we had. Even with more cap space, I wouldn't have advocated for big spending.

as well as maybe to keep other players.

I don't think we lost anyone due to money. Z was hurt a lot and became a locker room problem. Amos and Turner got old and slow.

In reality, you and I are talking about the same thing, spending money on a top tier player, whether it is your own or a Free Agent from another team. Maybe when it comes to top tier guys, a GM is going to have better information on his own guys and potentially get more for his money. So in that regard, I see your point.

Partially. But also the impact players don't make it to FA. The original teams re-sign those guys early. The players that are cut or make it to FA have at least some kind of asterisk next to their names. So you take a risk or you overpay. Or maybe both.

Even the best FAs in Packer history have them.

Reggie: Old and as being a named plaintiff in the lawsuit that gave us modern free agency, he was excluded from the Franchise Tag.
Pickett: 1st round pick, "just" a run plugger. Rams deemed him expendable.
Woodson: Finished several seasons in Oakland on IR. Most of the league viewed him as needing to covert to S.
Peppers: Deemed over the hill/not worth his contract and cut by the Bears.

And I already covered our 2019 class.

Heading into the 2024 offseason, I am much more confident that Ball and Gute will acutally have some money freed up to possibly plug a few immediate needs with Free agents, with those middle tier FA's that I speak of.

I'm not sure if we have any pressing needs that warrant a FA splash. I wouldn't mind a 3rd tier OL for depth, but our big deficiency is RB and S. Everywhere else is young and ascending. I'm also not sure who's a pending FA that would legitimately help our team.