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An update on Jim Bates

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by hoos, Jul 27, 2006.

  1. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    The one thing I will never forgive TT for is the way he treated Bates. The man is simply a class act through and through and a hell of a coach. He deserves to be running this team right now.

    Taken from packersnews.com.

    Posted July 26, 2006

    Chris Havel column: As NFL starts up, Bates 'starting to miss it'

    The reality of the situation is beginning to sink in.

    For the first time in 37 years, Jim Bates isn't spending late July gearing up to coach another football season.

    "I'm starting to miss it now," he said. "I've always enjoyed the preseason and training camp. It's a grind, but it's a fun time, too. You're putting in a system, the players are coming together and there's the challenge of it all. This time of year everyone is full of optimism and anything's still possible."

    Bates, 60, was in serious negotiations with an NFL team about a coaching position as recently as last week. Bates declined to offer details, saying he's preparing to make the most of his season away from coaching.

    His long-range plan is to study the NFL inside and out, consider his options and be prepared to return to coaching next season. His short-term goal is to travel, get in tip-top shape and enjoy the free time while it lasts.

    He plans to accept Lloyd Carr's invitation to attend a Michigan game in Ann Arbor.

    "I grew up 60 miles away (in Pontiac, Mich.) but in all my coaching experience and travel I've never been to The Big House," he said.

    "I also plan to take the boat ride, tailgate on the river and attend the Tennessee-Florida game."

    Bates, who coached at Tennessee (in 1968) and Florida (in 1990), also plans to attend several Denver Broncos games. His son Jeremy is an assistant coach under Mike Shanahan. His other son, James, recently moved to Fort Collins, Colo., where he'll be the TV play-by-play announcer for the Mountain West Conference. He'll also host a cable TV show there.

    Meantime, Bates can't help but think about what might have been. The defensive coordinator helped the Packers rank seventh in yards allowed in 2005, but GM Ted Thompson chose Mike McCarthy to replace Mike Sherman as the Packers' head coach.

    Bates pursued other jobs to no avail. He said he has no hard feelings.

    "From what I've seen with the addition of several players, you can't help but feel optimistic about the defense," he said of the Packers.

    "Last year, we got off to a good start, and now they're bringing in some playmakers. (A.J.) Hawk should be a playmaker. (Charles) Woodson's a playmaker. (Ryan) Pickett is very athletic and he's a hard worker. I see the defense as a much, much stronger unit, and I see more confidence within the unit.

    "They're fired up, and they should be. There's going to be some quality depth, and it should be interesting to see players fight for positions during training camp. I also think Bob (Sanders) is going to do a terrific job, as will (defensive line coach) Robert Nunn."

    Bates and his wife, Beverly, still live in Oneida.

    "We don't go out a whole lot, but when we do, it's been great," he said.

    "The Green Bay Packers have special fans. This is a unique place, and I feel fortunate to have had a chance to coach here."

    Chris Havel can be reached by voice mail at (920) 431-8586 |or by e-mail at chavel@greenbay.gannett.com.
     
  2. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    You know what, I like Bates alot...and he has all the tools to be a great HC....but one significant limitation....his age. This job of HC in the NFL is more stressful and demanding than ever....and it is only growing moreso every year. This job ages men nearly as bad as the Presidency....and has lead to many serious heart-related maladies for some of its practitioners. While I would have had no problem with him as the HC in Green Bay, can we honestly say that he could have held up in the long-term. TT is not here for a year or two....he is here for the long-haul, and needed a younger coach who would also be there for the long-haul....something Bates was not.
     
  3. pack4life

    pack4life Cheesehead

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    what a classy guy....very sad to no longer see him with us
     
  4. kmeyer

    kmeyer Cheesehead

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    Yes...He is a complete class act. I will root for him no matter where he ends up. I'm optimistic about McCarthy, but think we made a mistake letting Bates go.
     
  5. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    How did Ted Thompson treat Jim Bates wrong?


    You hire the man you feel is best for the job. IF he had hired him because he liked him, then what would you be saying?

    I liked Jim a lot. I wanted Jim Bates for HC very very strongly, but I understand some men are not built for HC and are best suited for DC/OC positions. I believe Fritz Shurmur and Jim Bates fall into that category.

    Jim's intensity was awesome to see and I bet even better to witness first hand.

    With that said, I can't fault Ted for hiring who he thought would be the best HC for the Packers.
     
  6. bavpb

    bavpb Cheesehead

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    The Dolphines seemed to think the same way, when they took Nick Saban instead of Jim Bates for HC, even though they knew his abilities as HC (at least particularly).
     
  7. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    The main issue I had is the way he dealt with the hiring. Jim thought he had the job and there were press leaks stating as much. Then Ted gave him a call and dropped the bad news. I think Ted at least owed him a face to face, but I guess that's just me. Pretty sure Ted handled this like most of his moves, in a snakey manner.

    Digs, if age was really a factor, why even interview him in the first place?
     
  8. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Professional courtesy.....respect.......politics...pick one or several.
     
  9. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    I think a token interview is disrespectful myself. Just my opinion. I'm not trying to sway anyone, the whole situation just left a bad taste in my mouth. I don't blame Bates for not wanting to come back.
     
  10. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Nor do I blame him for not wanting to come back...I am merely offering up possible ideas to explain the decision to let him go. Myself, I am rather excited about McCarthy as I learn more about how he intends to run camps, the accountability he will demand from players, and his no-bullshit mindset.
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    The main issue for you is how he dealt with the hiring... hiring of?

    Did you ever consider that maybe Jim felt so confident about his interview he presumed he had the job and Ted got wind of this and wanted to stop it ASAP before Jim looked like a fool in which the fastest method was via phone call?

    Fact is, you don't know what happened, neither do I. But I'll be damned if I'm gonna hold a grudge on someone for something I don't even know for sure is deserving.

    I'll hold off my judgement until Jim explains what happened or Ted explains what happened. I would hope any other reasonable person would do the same before lashing out.

    Snakey? I bet you call poker players snakey for not showing their hand to the opponents.
     
  12. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    I am still skeptical about McCarthy, but I hope for the best. I'm just worried that the formula of OC from the niners may not work out as well this time. I'm not really impressed with his track record. Let's hope he makes a better head coach than OC.
     
  13. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    First, I wasn't aware that hiring a head coach was playing poker, especially hiring one that no one else was even interviewing.

    Also, the telling sign for me is the fact that Jim left. The Packers wanted him back and he declined. While it is true that it would be hard to accept losing out on the job and staying in town, I personally feel that Ted has the charisma of a rock and that probably had something to do with it. It is my opinion that he doesn't have a grasp on the people side of running a franchise and this to me is evident with the way he handled the Javon situation as well. I don't want to start a long thread with beaten topics, so I will leave it at that.
     
  14. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    Also, poker players are snakey :D
     
  15. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    For the same purposes that a GM would be.


    Who said it was?

    I'm done with this since you're gonna just avoid the points and twist words around. I might as well get back to working :)
     
  16. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    My goodness some of you guys will go to incredible lengths to protect TT. :wink: Please don't make excuses for the man. He thought MM would be a better headcoach than Bates. That's why he chose him. Time will tell. It had nothing to do with age or health. In fact, digs, if MM and Jim Bates had a physical fitness competition right now, I'd put my money on Bates!! He could have held up "long-term" which in today's NFL is 5-10 years.
     
  17. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    You are concerned with his track record, hoos? With the exception of SF, which was destined for failure regardless of who was running that show, McCarthy's track record is impeccable. Take a look at what he took over in KC and NO...and then look what he left behind.

    It is good to know a man's history before you cast shadows over it.
     
  18. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    De is this going to turn into an age argument or general manager argument? My money is on general manager!
     
  19. hoos

    hoos Cheesehead

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    I'm not impressed with his work at NO. He never brought them past mediocre. I'm aware of his history.
     
  20. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Look at the offensive records established during his tenure in NO. He took dogshit and made it decent. Schooled Delhomme, Hasselbeck, Gannon, Bulger...wherever he has been, it has been improved...bottom line.

    That is why we play the gamres though...to get a full gauge of what we have in terms of players and staff.

    De...I have no idea as to what you mean referring to my "protecting TT"...I am merely speculating and offering my own perspective.
     
  21. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    No offense digs but the man has no history when it comes to being a head coach. Ther is a big difference between head coach and offensive coordinator.


    Dakota.....did you even read my post. I said nothing bad about TT. So take the TT blow-up doll out of your mouth and reread it. I was pointing out that digs was making an excuse for TT not hiring Bates when it wasn't really necessary to do so. Age and health had nothing to do with it. TT had the freedom to choose who he felt was best for the job.

    Now do you want to dispute this or do you want to tell me that I'm picking on TT again?
     
  22. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    DePack, neither did Holmgren, Landry, Parcells, Lombardi, Gibbs, Shula, et al, have HC experience when they became HCs. What a crappy argument. Everyone has to start somewhere. And for the record, the league is also littered with abject failures in the HC spot who had previous and significant experience as HC.

    "Oh....that Brett Favre...screw him...he has never started before.....put Majik back in...injury and all."

    Yeah, great logic.

    What I am saying is, his history documents a record of success and improvement in the areas and places he has worked. A successful track record, don't you think?
     
  23. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Yeah, the Packers could have hired Dick Jauron. He was an alright assistant for the Packers but got ruined when he went to......hmmmm.....oh, yeah Chicago. He lost there, he tried to do the 'interim' thing in Detroit and lost there, now he's going to Buffalo to lose there.

    Would he have been a better choice than McCarthy?
     
  24. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    How about Dave Wannstedt? Lindy Infante? Rich Kotite, anyone? They all have previous HC experience!!
     
  25. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    You forgot about Sherman :lol:

    C'mon digs, I'm all for McCarthey but he didn't get the job based on his track record. Alot of these hirings are gut-feeling, great interviews, chemistry etc. His New Orleans and last year's SF teams never had the offensive success that Holmy and most of the others did. He was hired based on TT projecting what he can do in the future not what he had done in the past. There were alot more candidates with more success than MM. But I like what TT did. Go with your gut feeling....get the young blood in and hope that his personality converts into success. I truly believe that teams take on the personality of the head coach. If MM has the personality and fire that TT thinks he does we should be alright!
     

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