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An Indictment of Our Defensive Leaders?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Here's an interesting quote (summarized by PFT for what it's worth) by Kaepernick:

    In a long profile by Peter King of TheMMQB.com, Kaepernick reveals that during that game, the Packers’ defenders began yelling at each other about why nothing was working against the 49ers’ offense.

    “It got to a point,” Kaepernick says, “where we could hear [the Packers’ defenders] arguing while we were in our huddle. ‘You’re supposed to do this,’ or ‘You have to do this, then the other.’ At that point, our offense was like, It’s over. As soon as you start turning on your teammates, you’re not going to be productive. You know you have them in the palm of your hands.”

    I'd love to know who, specifically, was doing the yelling. Regardless, is this an indictment of our leaders on defense? Woodson and Walden are the only ones gone from last year's game. I can see Woodson getting upset, given his comments after the game. But, does this also say anything about the likes of Claymaker, Hawk, Raji, Pickett, and Burnett? Maybe I'm reading too much into this since they did whoop our a$$ and it's an emotional game. But, for some reason, this quote - if true - rubs me the wrong way.
     
  2. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    The quote doesn't indicate that these were our leaders or captains arguing, so I'm not sure that it was an indictment of our defensive leaders. To me it would indicate that there were players (I'm thinking of Walden specifically) that were consistently out of position and therefore there were players yelling at him/them to get it right.

    Kaepernick's comments aren't surprising considering the level of failure that we all witnessed on defense. I'd be more surprised to read this had the Packers not sent their coaches to "read-option" camp, drafted more defenders, and let certain players leave. We can always argue if it's enough, but the Packers brass at least recognized the deficiencies.
     
  3. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    It was me doing all the yelling!
     
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  4. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Fair. To me, it doesn't matter if the ones yelling were our leaders or not. Simply allowing the infighting to be so noticeable that the other team picked up on it speaks about the quality/effectiveness of our leadership in my mind. If you're a leader, you tell the culprit to shut the F up and do your job. Team doesn't need a hero, just for everyone to do their job. Focus on their task.
     
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  5. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    It is an indictment of the leadership which goes directly to Dom Capers and ultimately MM. Anyone who watched the game knows the Packers were ill prepared and didn't have a damn clue what to do on that day. It was the classical Chinese fire drill out there. An absolutely pathetic and embarrassing performance!!!

    Other than the addition of Perry, McMillan (or Jennings) and Datone Jones and the subtraction of Woodson and Walden the Packers defensive personnel will most likely look a lot like the guys that failed so miserably. I hope but I am not all that confident that Capers can turn things around. Capers is definitely on the hot seat.
     
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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think you are reading too much into it, we did get our *** kicked, and I think it should rub you the wrong way.

    In other words, I don't find this in the least surprising...the misguided game plan and confusion on the field were obvious; voices will rise with the frustration level. And yes, given Woodson's post game comments, we can surmise he was in damage control mode with some heated words to go along with it.

    Or you can look at it this way...the World Series champion 1977 New York Yankees had fist fights in the dugout, spiteful benchings and general interpersonal mayhem.

    In the end, it's a big "so what". Sh*t happens when you're getting your head handed to you.

    As noted by 13 times, I'd be a lot more concerned about that game plan than loud voices and finger pointing in the huddle...it was a "contain the pass, make Kaepernick beat us with his legs, and play to outscore them" plan. It was a complete failure.

    Woodson's post game critique...adjustments were needed and not made...sealed his fate while being painfully accurate. I have not been one to call for Capers head. But after the 2011 sieve of a pass defense and the 2012 epic failure, I think we need to consider him on the clock.
     
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  7. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    I think we should fire McCarthy as well - we didn't score a lot in a few games last year - total fail, he's awful - we should fire him and get Jon Gruden or some other big name (is Joe Gibbs still alive?).

    and on defense, we should fire Dom and replace him with Lovie Smith or one of the Ryan Brothers... I think the new "let's panic and fire everyone" plan is great, ka-durrh?!
     
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  8. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    I was going to say, they probably heard millions of Packer fans yelling at their televisions.
     
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  9. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    Capers failed the team and the fans last season by not having them prepared to defend against the run. Joe Webb gave him all the knowledge he might need to realize we were vulnerable, yet there was no special preparation for the pistol formation.

    CK's comments are, at best, bulletin board material. Kind of weak however when you consider 579 is all the bb material they could ever need.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Joe Webb and Colin Kapernick are not in the same league. Teams used to prepare for Ted Hendricks by having guys wave around tennis rackets in practice. Joe Webb is a tennis racket.

    That's not to say the Webb experience didn't provide a false sense of confidence.
     
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  11. NorthWestCheeseHead

    NorthWestCheeseHead Cheesehead

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    If Kapernick's comments are 100% accurate and unembellished I think it is of concern. No doubt the D squad will face adversity at times throughout the season. Arguing is fine in practices but in an actual game it only serves to disrupt unit cohesion I feel.

    Obviously the Packers as a whole were woefully underprepared for that game which definitely contributed to that situation. Arguing is indicative of weak leadership either from the coaches or on the field. Given that this coaching group on large has recently coached this team to a Super Bowl I don't think the issue specifically lays with the coaching staff. Since that time not much turnover in the coaches has happened, where as couple players in those on field leadership roles went down to injury and/or are not present any longer.

    So I'm interested to see how the players in those roles this year develop within the role over the upcoming season and beyond.
     
  12. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    While it would be nice to think it was all Waldens fault for that fiasco, especially as he`s no longer there to show any improvement, I think seriously that they were ALL to blame, especially the coaching staff. If we are totally honest, they served our asses to us on a plate that night.
     
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  13. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

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    No they're not, yet Webb appeared to run the read option with ease against our D which I believe should have been a warning.

    It was fortuitous for us that Frazier stopped having him run the ball so much IMHO.

    Regardless it was clear Capers didn't have the team ready, there will be no excuses in September.
     
  14. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    That is why I said there were multiple players out of position, but Walden was the typically the most noticeable
     
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  15. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    right on the money
     
  16. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Sorry, I didn't aim that remark specifically at you El G, it was a general comment. I'd love
    to think now he's gone the defense will dramatically change for the better, but I'm not sure that will happen while we still have Capers.
     
  17. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Yeah? Well, I chalked up a couple of more eternities in Purgatory for piecing words together that have never been pieced together before. I'm a creative 'cusser' -- my son covered his girlfriend's ears. :)
     
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  18. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I am not too concerned about the subject of Kaepernick’s comments since the yelling among Packers defenders was a result, not the cause of the disaster. I’d be more concerned if most of them took that beating ‘lying down’. IMO the lack of preparation was the cause and that, and the relative level of talent on D far, far outweighs any concern about the reactions of the players on the field once the rout was on.

    As to Capers I agree he’s on notice – how could he not be? His only excuse could be lack of talent and/or injuries. While not determinative on its own, the Packers have spent 10 of the last 17 draft picks on D and have retained UDFAs on D as well – and may again. Anyway, even if his excuse(s) have some merit, if the D is the obvious problem again this season, particularly in post season, he should go.
     
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  19. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    That's the way I see it. Assuming Kaepernick's comments are true -- and nobody on the Packers has confirmed that as far as I know, but I wouldn't expect them to -- the bickering in the huddle should be taken as a sign that preparation was poor and that players were no longer sure of their assignments by that point in the game. They were flustered. Obviously we can't assign blame to one source, but Capers has to bear a great deal of responsibility for his players not being on the same page and not knowing their assignments.

    Other than a few end-of-season comments, Capers has been very mum. I know that MM prefers to take responsibility for the entire coaching staff, but in this case I don't think he can cover for his DC. Capers is going to have to speak up for himself, which he can do in a couple of ways. The best one would be to let the defense's play speak for itself this season. But I can't help going into this season once again with a very strong wait-and-see attitude. Lack of good players can no longer be used as an excuse, and like it or not, the 579 yards in the playoffs is the number that will be remembered and against which the progress of this defense will be measured, i.e. can this defense hold up against the good teams?
     
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  20. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    I understand the desire to blame Capers for the defenses failing in the 49ers game, it's much easier to replace a defensive coordinator than it is to replace players. However, Football Outsiders has a great article written right after the game that analyzed the offensive and defensive performances. In regards to the read-option, Capers used a scheme that is very popular in stopping the read-option, our players just stunk. The 49ers offensive line threw our dline around like a JV soccer team. On the 56-yard TD run in the third quarter, there is one screenshot that shows Raji, literally, being taken seven yards away from the play by one offensive lineman. Earlier in the game, a play is broken down where we see Burnett lose contain on the edge and thus allow Kaepernick to run for 18 yards, rather than the probably 4 he would have gotten. The link to the article is at the bottom of this post.

    The gameplan that Capers came in with to stop the read-option was sound. The limitations the new CBA puts on practices makes it difficult to prepare for uncommon offenses, especially something like the read-option where discipline is key and the defense loses their numerical advantage. The Packers were outplayed on the field, not in the coaching box. Our defensive line was terrible and our linebackers were almost as bad (this includes Matthews). So, I can understand why players were yelling at one another.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2013/word-muth-san-francisco-clinic
     
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  21. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As long as it doesn`t happen this season, and we learned from it, I don`t really care about analyzing this to death. We, the coaching staff and the players were given an *** kicking. We all saw it, we all suffered it. Bring on the 49ers and let Capers and the defense prove it was merely a blip !!
     
  22. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I read the article and didn't see where Capers got a pass. In fact the article says Greg Roman and Jim Harbaugh out schemed him. But I don't disagree about how badly the players played on defense.
     
  23. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I think what I meant was we can analyse this to death but its in the past. We cant change what happened
     
  24. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don't know about you Bill, but I remember that game all too well and nobody laid a glove on me! :D
     
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  25. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Well TJV, I know after it I FELT like somebody had kicked the crap out of me......lol Maybe it was the wife :D
     

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