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Allow challenges of some penalties?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Reverend Conehead, Feb 14, 2011.

  1. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Cheesehead

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    There was a bogus facemask call the Super Bowl. I can see why the ref called it. From his angle, it looked like the facemask had been grabbed. However, in reality the player was grabbing the jersey under the facemask. On that drive the Steelers scored after being spotted 15 unwarranted points. Fortunately, the bad call didn't affect the outcome of the game, and other than that the officiating was pretty good.

    Still, it could have affected the outcome. I'm wondering if a coach should be allowed to challenge some penalties. Facemasks and pass interference calls come to mind. I don't think I would allow a challenge of a non-call, but it seems to me an actual penalty should be reviewable. The goal of instant replay was to get a more accurately officiated game. It seems that challenges of some penalties should be allowed if the coach has a challenge available. What do you think?
     
  2. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Somewhere around here I already posted some thoughts on the use of the challenge flag against penalties.
    It's probably buried back on page 40 or later. LOL

    Anyway, I agree with you. I think the coach of the opposing team should be able to challenge certain calls against his team.

    Welcome back and good to see your still around Rev.
    Keep preaching :preach: and hallelujah! :amen:
    :liturgy:
     
  3. greenandgold

    greenandgold I'm Dirty Hairy Callahan

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    You should be able to challenge ANYTHING that did not happen!
     
  4. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Cheesehead

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    I don't think there's any way they could effectively challenge false start penalties because the ref blows the whistle to stop play. But it seems like penalties that did not stop play could be challenged.
     
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  5. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Right now there are only 3 penalties that can be reviewed. Some would like to see it increase. I think while good in theory it would slow the game down even more. And exactly which ones are reviewable? How do you make face masking reviewable but not holding? Or do you throw them all into the pot?
     
  6. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Cheesehead

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    I honestly think the limited challenge system will still prevent games from being slowed down too much. The previous system had the refs calling to a retired ref up in the booth any time they weren't sure of something, and it definitely slowed the game down. However, now the coaches are limited to two challenges per half (and a third if they get both those right). That by itself will still be enough to prevent slowing a game down. And what's challengeable should be determined by practicality, since it's not really practical to challenge something if the play has been whistled dead. Pass interference, illegal contact, holding, facemasking all seam like calls that be allowed to be challenged, IMO.
     
  7. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I'd start with personal fouls since the yardage is added to the end of the play. I also think the coach should be able to call a helmet-to-helmet situation whether the ref sees it or not.
     
  8. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

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    I agree and I'm glad your nic is not greenandyellow
     
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  9. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    A team should be allowed to challenge anything. I've seen a lot of questionable pass interference, face masking, roughing the passer and holding calls.
     
  10. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    The good side of those bullshit penalties in the Super Bowl is we not only beat the Steelers, we beat an Official Pittsburgh Officiating Crew.

    Remember that bad call that gave them the win over the Dolphins?
    Who can forget how they practically won a Super Bowl off of penalties (Seahawks)
     
  11. G0PackG0

    G0PackG0 Cheesehead

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    Especially when it's evident that all officials are not in agreement
     
  12. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    This is largely generated from poor officiating. If the officials were doing their jobs, we wouldn't be questioning their calls. Because games have been won or lost on the basis of bad calls, I would say it is a huge concern. I agree with JenningsLongCatch. Any call should subject disputable. Would this be a different challenge to those calls that are disputable under the red flag parameters or would challenging penalty flags simply be added to the red flag challenges? The drawbacks are it would eat up time, resulting in longer games. Especially if you you get some nut coach who goes off half cocked and challenges every flag on the field. There should be a certain number of penalty flag challenges a coach can make in a given quarter.

    The thing that gets to me about all this, and to go back to my original point, the roots of this argument are in the officiating system. I think it needs to be overhauled. Way too much of this occurs on a consistent basis. Maybe it will not be necessary for a coach to have to challenge a penalty flag if the flag was legit to begin with. Officials do make mistakes and they cannot see everything that goes on, but should a team have to worry about losing a game because of a bad call? It still comes down to officiating.
     
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  13. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    There is TONS of teams that lost games on bad calls. Like I mentioned, the Steelers could have had one more loss had it not been for that wrong call in the Miami game where Roethlisberger fumbled in the endzone and it was ruled a Touchdown.
     
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  14. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    TONS is a good word for it and you have listed evidence and examples and we have a bunch of pissed off Dolphins! Your argument is the perfect reason why the officiating system should be overhauled. Or at least a major inquiry. Somebody needs to hold these guys accountable, they control the outcome of games! Maybe the solution is check them with added surveillance in the booth. If us fans watching at home can see it and scream at our TVs, then there is no reason somebody who is actually at the game watching the same or maybe even enhanced footage should not be able to see it too AND have the authority to overrule calls on the field. I'm not saying take all the power away from the officials, I just think they need a back up plan in case they miss something. Such as Big Ben fumbling in the endzone and it resulting in a Steelers touchdown and a bunch of pissed of Dolphins...
     
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  15. Guacamole

    Guacamole Cheesehead

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    any video of that play?
     
  16. Wood Chipper

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    i think they should be able to use their challenge flag on penaltys called, and for every call they win they get that flag back.
     
  17. Bogart

    Bogart Duke Mantee

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    [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZM1AU5svoc]YouTube - Week 7 Controversial fumble Pittsburgh Steelers Vs Miami Dolphins HD Highlight 10-24-2010[/ame]

    Watch the video.

    Rapistburger clearly FUMBLED the ball and it was recovered by MIAMI and it was ruled a Pittsburgh touchdown. They bitched and whined about this for weeks, but they are so right. They got screwed, like so many teams do against Pittsburgh.


    This year is karma to them. Big Ben got away with something. They were handed a Super Bowl over Seattle to start their "dynasty" and now it comes back to bite them on the ***, except it ain't Dallas beating them in '95, it's US beating their oh so super bad *** team that was supposed to be way better than us.
     
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  18. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Here's what I don't like.
    The red flag comes out.
    The ref looks at the replay.
    The play stands.
    And then a couple days later, officials in an office somewhere look at the video and then say "OK. The field officials were wrong."
    WTF?
    And then what?
    The team that lost is F'd.
    I just don't get why if the field officials are going to use the tools of replay why they are not used perfectly 100% of the time.
     
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  19. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    At 3:08 you can clearly see the ball comes out before it crosses the plain.

    So I agree with Bogart.
    It's good to see the Stealers lose the big one after this fiasco in Miami.
     
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  20. Packerfury

    Packerfury Cheesehead

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    I strongly disagree with this. It would cause havok. It's a bad idea. Flat out.
     
  21. Packerstud

    Packerstud Cheesehead

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    100%
     
  22. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Did you watch the video your posted? It was ruled a FUMBLE and NO TD was awarded to the Steelers. Pittsburgh was awarded the ball on the 1 foot line and proceeded to kick a field goal making the game 23-22.

    From the NFL Gamebook of the game. Notice the word "REVERSED" after "TOUCHDOWN"

    I hate when people make stuff up to try an prove a point.
     
  23. Packerstud

    Packerstud Cheesehead

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    The Refs do a great job. They are evaluated on a weekly basis. The game needs the human element There are things going on the camera does not catch.

    I don't want penalties to be reviewed.
     
  24. fettpett

    fettpett Cheesehead

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    the only changes to the replay system is that the any play that results in a turn over should be reviewable, which should include that if a penalty caused or happened on the play than they can reverse the call. Plus I don't think a play should be "dead" unless all action has stopped and the ball isn't obviously in play still
     
  25. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Cheesehead

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    Gotta respectfully disagree. I think most refs do a great job under the conditions they work, but none of them will ever be able to call a perfect game. The technology exists to help improve their accuracy. And the refs want the game to be called as accurately as possible. Despite the claims of some fans, there's no conspiracy by refs to deliberately screw any teams over or to make certain that specific teams win. The current replay system has improved the accuracy. It's a start. By making most penalties reviewable, that will improve the accuracy even more. We can prevent it from making games long and drawn out by keeping the challenge system in place. It's two challenges per half, plus a third if a coach gets two right. Then in the final two minutes of the first half or the game, it's all booth challenges. That system seems to work pretty well. Making penalties challengeable is a tweaking that can help.

    I remember how frustrating it was before there was any replay system. Some calls that were clearly wrong could determine the outcome of a game and there was nothing anyone, refs included, could do about it. As it stands that situation can still happen if the bad call is a penalty. It seems to only make sense to modify a system that basically works to include that.

    Imagine if that bogus facemask penalty had cost the Packers the game. Packer fans would be pipin' hot mad, and rightfully so.
     
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